SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on check sensor?

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

The solar controller will have two temperature sensors, one for the water and one that will go up by the solar panels. If you're gonna run the lines underground to the garage, I would run a wire to go to the roof temp sensor at that time. It will come with a control box, 3 way valve, and valve actuator. You're running into the same predicament that I've pondered with running everything before getting the controller. I would have to buy a 3 way valve to run the system, then get another valve with the controller package. I haven't found the controller system that didn't come with the valve, so I'll end up having an extra valve when I get the controller, and probably sell it on ebay.

You don't have to have any block valves on the solar system, but it wouldn't hurt to have a set on the lines to and from the panels in case you needed to work on them. Those could be added later pretty easily if/when you actually needed them. Unions would only be necessary if you were running the lines on the ground and wanted to remove them for the winter. They could also easily be added later if/when you needed them.

On your panel array drawing, the return of heated water needs to come off the top of the panels. The vacuum relief valve will be somewhere on the return line also. It allows air to be pulled in so the panels can drain out the return line back to the pool when solar isn't being used. The cold supply side will drain back through a hole in the check valve. You don't want it all rushing back at once, so you drill a small hole in the flapper in the check valve. As far as the check valve goes, a lot of the solar systems I've seen just have the ones like lowes sells. Here's a link to pooldv's build thread. You can see how his is laid out. pooldv pool build

Ill have to try to take a video later of the situation.. some of the pipe might go in the ground.. basically the part from behind my deck to the garage.. maybe a foot deep.. but if i do that, i have to go from the pump, under the deck (ontop of ground i think), then right angle down a foot or two to be able to bury it a foot deep behind the deck over to my garage location (about 10 feet from the deck to the garage side wall, which i landscaped with rocks.. i'd rather put the pipes under the rocks.

When you say the return needs to come off the top.. it was my understanding that the pipes on the array, if they lay horizontally the pipes end up on the left and right do they not? I guess if i layed them vertically it would work.. i dont know that my garage has 20 feet to go up, and i'm not really that comfortable climbing all the way at 20 feet up if it did lol.. i was trying to limit it to 8 foot up on the roof.

You mentioned block valves.. is that the same as vacuum valve or are you referring to standard unions that you can unscrew..

I dont think ill remove the pipes in the winter though

Ill check out that build link, thanks for posting that

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Here is the install manual I used to install mine. It has good diagrams to show how it should be installed. http://shop.solardirect.com/pdf/poo...s/collectors/vortex/vortex-install-manual.pdf
Thanks for that.. ill check it out.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Review the manual that was posted and come back with any remaining questions.

Flow rate desired is typically around 1gpm per 10sqft of panel. At least that is what it is for the vertical panels.

I have some concerns on how well the 20 foot long horizontal panels work on a significantly sloped roof I think they end up sagging in the middle unless they are supported a lot.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

I was just talking about plain ole ball valves to close that section off if you wanted. The vacuum relief valve is just a little vent that closes when it has pressure applied, and opens when there is a vacuum. It works like holding your finger over a straw full of water. Take your finger off and the water drains out. When you turn solar off, it lets air into the pipe so the water can drain.

The supply will go into the bottom, and return from the top on the opposite side. Otherwise only your bottom panel would fill with water, it would flow straight across and back to the pool. The water will take the path of least resistance and completely bypass all the other sections. If you go in the bottom of one side and out the top of the other side, all the air gets pushed out, and there is an equal distance for all the water to travel so all panels get used.
 
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Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Review the manual that was posted and come back with any remaining questions.

Flow rate desired is typically around 1gpm per 10sqft of panel. At least that is what it is for the vertical panels.

I have some concerned on how well the 20 foot long horizontal panels work on a significantly sloped roof I think they end up sagging in the middle unless they are supported a lot.
My garage roof isnt the greatest in terms of strength.. mostly 2x4's and particle board underneath and likely not 20 feet straight up.. i swore i had seen people mounting these in the horizontal position though (most of the amazon q&A mentions going horizontally).. i guess not the most optimal if horizontal.

On the manual, for that system, it appears to state using 2" pvc after the 3 way valve, but i dont think the smartpool panels are 2 but 1.5, like the rest of my pvc?
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

I was just talking about plain ole ball valves to close that section off if you wanted. The vacuum relief valve is just a little vent that closes when it has pressure applied, and opens when there is a vacuum. It works like holding your finger over a straw full of water. Take your finger off and the water drains out. When you turn solar off, it lets air into the pipe so the water can drain.

The supply will go into the bottom, and return from the top on the opposite side. Otherwise only your bottom panel would fill with water, it would flow straight across and back to the pool. The water will take the path of least resistance and completely bypass all the other sections. If you go in the bottom of one side and out the top of the other side, all the air gets pushed out, and there is an equal distance for all the water to travel so all panels get used.
Ah i see ok, yeah that makes sense.. on the vac relief, is that just a section of pipe with a port coming out that you find at lowes.. or is there something you put in the port to toggle the effect.. if i were in the store, what would i look for exactly.. sorry still relatively new to the pvc realm. I mentioned it in the other reply, but from reading the amazon reviews, it seemed most did it horizontally with this system, unsure how they succeed.. though most mention just having enough pressure to get the water up there..
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

The 20 foot panels are meant to be horizontal. I just recall posts about some of them sagging, not sure if those were a different brand.

Larger pipe lowers the head loss. No worry using 2" pipe and then just reducing where required.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

I've looked at so many of these panels that its all a blur, but I believe these panels have slits in them every so often for mounting. The tie down bracket slips through the panel and the strap goes over the top across the panel. The vacuum relief valve usually consists of a T in the return line with an elbow facing up with the valve attached. This is what the valve looks like. https://www.amazon.com/Vacuum-Relief-Sungrabber-Swimming-Heating/dp/B007OLY2N4
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

The 20 foot panels are meant to be horizontal. I just recall posts about some of them sagging, not sure if those were a different brand.

Larger pipe lowers the head loss. No worry using 2" pipe and then just reducing where required.
Ah i see.. i guess ill have to make sure i get them good and secured to the roof then. Is there any alternative recommended ways of securing them on the roof, ala lowes materials? I guess ill go with 2" from the 3 way valve and back, question is, where do i reduce it on the way back (obviously ill need some sort of reducer at the panel themselves).. but do i just reduce it at the returning Tee junction and from that point to the return on the pool have 1.5" (which i already have)?

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I've looked at so many of these panels that its all a blur, but I believe these panels have slits in them every so often for mounting. The tie down bracket slips through the panel and the strap goes over the top across the panel. The vacuum relief valve usually consists of a T in the return line with an elbow facing up with the valve attached. This is what the valve looks like. https://www.amazon.com/Vacuum-Relief-Sungrabber-Swimming-Heating/dp/B007OLY2N4
I see now, wow $40 just on the vac relief.. only one i assume needed.. i looked at the solar direct one though, they have a picture and show it on one of the end caps on the panels themselves i think.
 

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Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

The more 2" pipe, the less head loss, just reduce at the end of your new runs. Although, just using 1.5" would likely be fine too.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Here are some photos of my situation.. i added some graphic indicators to the garage shot.. still unsure if i should "drop down a foot or two" to go lower on the crossover pipe, as it would be going uphill on the way back.. maybe just leave the pipe exposed. I have about 17' one way to from the pump area, diagonally under the deck.. then 8 feet across to garage then up 7.5 feet (then across to the other end of the panels too, another 20 feet).. in all, i think 85 feet of 2" pvc roughly, about 8 sections of 10 footers ($9 per pipe, around $80 in the pipe alone).. assuming 2" is that much better given these distances than going with cheaper 1.5" pvc in terms of reduced head? I figure on just going diagonally the whole way from the pump and across to minimize the need for bends? (diaganol in the open between the deck and garage doesnt look as good, guess i could throw a 45 or 90 on there make it look straighter from the deck on, but then i have to come to the right to get to the corner of the garage roof). I also have a video.. ill post it once it uploads.

I assume these are the 1 1/2 to 2" converter couplers i'd need from lowes? Or maybe a threaded version depending on the 3 way valve connection or up on the solar panel connections

underdeck.jpg

pumppvc.jpg

betweengaragedeck.jpg

roofofgarage.jpg
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

That reducing coupling is not rated for pressure. It is a DWV ( drain, waste, vent) fitting. Make sure you get the one that is rated for pressure. Also make sure that you get pressure rated pvc. That'll be the $9 stuff. The other stuff has a foam core, and is not meant for any pressure.

I would bury the pipe just to keep it tidy. Maybe a foot. You can get pipe straps at lowes to secure the pipes to the garage. Like this. Shop AMERICAN VALVE 2-in to 2-in dia Galvanized 2-Hole Pipe Strap at Lowes.com I would see if they have the single hole version locally. Maybe go to an electrical supply house or hardware store if lowes doesnt carry it. Just secure it with a small lag screw that goes into a stud if possible.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

That reducing coupling is not rated for pressure. It is a DWV ( drain, waste, vent) fitting. Make sure you get the one that is rated for pressure. Also make sure that you get pressure rated pvc. That'll be the $9 stuff. The other stuff has a foam core, and is not meant for any pressure.

I would bury the pipe just to keep it tidy. Maybe a foot. You can get pipe straps at lowes to secure the pipes to the garage. Like this. Shop AMERICAN VALVE 2-in to 2-in dia Galvanized 2-Hole Pipe Strap at Lowes.com I would see if they have the single hole version locally. Maybe go to an electrical supply house or hardware store if lowes doesnt carry it. Just secure it with a small lag screw that goes into a stud if possible.
i'm seeing this pipe.. but its labeled DWV too, 280 psi ($8.96).. i guess thats not it either then.. (not seeing anything differently than dwv at least via the website)
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Its dual purpose. That's the stuff you want. I just bought 280 ft of it, but I got 20ft pieces from a plumbing supply house. Your run isn't long enough to worry about getting the long pieces.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Are you intending to use the pump in the picture for solar? I am not sure it has the power to pump water up onto a roof.

In your picture, the blue line should enter the panels at the bottom right and then the orange out of the top left (like pictured). The panels should also be slightly tilted with the left a few inches higher than the right.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

Are you intending to use the pump in the picture for solar? I am not sure it has the power to pump water up onto a roof.

In your picture, the blue line should enter the panels at the bottom right and then the orange out of the top left (like pictured). The panels should also be slightly tilted with the left a few inches higher than the right.

There's a 1.5hp pump mounted on the filter base. The little intex one is just the swg.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. questions and build notes

I don't know what kind of breeze/wind you get in PA, but if that had been my pole and leaf rake, it would be bent or a quarter mile away with the wind we have been having. LOL
 

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