I remember on one of the Orenda blogs, Eric was saying that aggressive water has a tendency to look good. Is there something in this?I like to verify the main drain screws are still phillips, from the patio.
Orenda reccomedations
- Thread starter xDom
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,901
- Pool Size
- 35000
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- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
No.
So good looking water is bad? And bad looking water is good?
Why don’t you ask them about the nonsense they write?
Sounds like a typical industry scare tactic to me. Ignore your eyes, ignore any testing, just use our product because you need it.
What is their basis for 'agressive' water ?
I think the point from Orenda is don’t believe your eyes. Just because it looks great doesn’t mean youre good to go. Orenda is if anything way on the side of always test don’t guess.
Doesn’t etching water need calcium? And scaling water have excess(cloudy?)
Doesn’t etching water need calcium? And scaling water have excess(cloudy?)
Calcium scaling is from having too much calcium in the water relative to the pH. “Etching water” I’m not sure what that is but if it means the pH is low, then someone added too much acid. Acid can be pretty clear so I guess it could be said that “aggressive” water can look good. Gasoline can look pretty clear too, but isn’t safe to swim in. So it depends on the context of what the article was saying.
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Low CSI water is less likely to have clouding from calcium carbonate in general and when using products like pH increaser or calcium hypochlorite because the calcium carbonate dissolves quickly in low pH and low CSI water.
Super low pH in the 4.5 or lower range might have less risk of algae, but it is very dangerous to have the pH that low.
For people who know what they are doing, aggressive water should not be any more clear than balanced water.
For people who do not know what they are doing, aggressive water might be easier to keep clear than balanced water or high CSI water.
Many people on trichlor tabs who have zero TA and a pH below 4.5 have crystal clear water, but you would not want to swim in the water.
Also, you are taking the person's comments out of context and paraphrasing.
You would need to provide the whole article that explains exactly what they are saying and their logic for what they are saying.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,684
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Water clarity tells you very little about a pool when it’s taken on it’s own. It’s a subjective measure that has little meaning without the context of other chemical measurements.
The Orenda “techniques” place way too much emphasis on saturation balance. Sure, they pay lip service to sanitation and keeping the CYA and FC in a proper range, but they take an unusual focus on saturation as to pretend like it’s the list important thing about a pool. I suspect, given the chemicals they manufacture and supply, they have an ulterior motive. One can sell lots of scale inhibitor when your mantra is “saturation, saturation, saturation ..”.
TFP’s approach is much simpler and produces just as good results or better for the average pool owner.
The Orenda “techniques” place way too much emphasis on saturation balance. Sure, they pay lip service to sanitation and keeping the CYA and FC in a proper range, but they take an unusual focus on saturation as to pretend like it’s the list important thing about a pool. I suspect, given the chemicals they manufacture and supply, they have an ulterior motive. One can sell lots of scale inhibitor when your mantra is “saturation, saturation, saturation ..”.
TFP’s approach is much simpler and produces just as good results or better for the average pool owner.
One thing that astounds me about pool chemistry is the differing in opinions. So far I've come across three different schools of thought, possibly there's more!?
There's the traditional CPO certifications ( which I have read here on this forum that its incompatible with what is taught here at TFP ), there's the Orenda method ( of which I've heard Eric disagreeing with the traditional CPO method ( haven't actually heard him say anything negative about TFP ! )) and finally, there's the TFP way.
This is only after under 7 months of pool ownership. Maybe science isn't an exact science.
There's the traditional CPO certifications ( which I have read here on this forum that its incompatible with what is taught here at TFP ), there's the Orenda method ( of which I've heard Eric disagreeing with the traditional CPO method ( haven't actually heard him say anything negative about TFP ! )) and finally, there's the TFP way.
This is only after under 7 months of pool ownership. Maybe science isn't an exact science.
Science is -people- analyzing observations about the world and then come up with an opinion about what’s true and false. People having different data and or (financial) motivations come up with different results.
What I always look to, is the direction of traffic here. We take in people who have exhausted all kinds of methods. In my time as moderator, not one has left us and found success. I would know, I'd be the one deleting their bragging post that unnecessarily trashed TFP in the process.
Fair enough. Do you think Orenda advice is more applicable to commercial pools as opposed to residential pools here?
I think in some ways it's better suited for commercial applications, like using UV/ozone for secondary sanitizing. Commercial units can accomplish what their rinky dink residential unit cousins cannot. There is also often a need for those units in commercial pools, be they indoors or in need of following strict local codes that don't recognize modern sanitizing levels.
In other ways I feel they aren't well suited for commercial applications like said strict local codes which in some cases, Don't allow any CYA much less the 20 to 50 Orenda requires for their program.
I keep our pool between 0 and -0.3 it can go down as far as -0.6 but I will bring it back up to -0.3. My salt cell when it is below 0 does not get calcium build up. The less I have to putz with the equipment the better.
Ok, so if your LSI is below 0 and you have no calcium buildup then is there no maintenance at all to be done on the SWG?
I had heard that the LSI within the SWG can be a lot different than the actual pool water LSI? Something about the temperature being quite a lot higher within the canister?
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- May 23, 2015
- 25,684
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The only maintenance to do on the SWG is to remove it once or twice a year and look inside. If you see any calcium scale on the cell plates then you should try to clean it off with a jet of water from the hose. If that doesn’t work, cleaning vinegar is appropriate to use. If there is no visual scale, then put it back and leave it alone. Other than that, they need no other regular maintenance.
Could a high ( or low ) LSI shorten the life expectancy of an electric heat pump? Asking for a friend.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,684
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Saturation is less of an issue for heat pumps. Their heat exchangers are mostly titanium and so they are less subject to corrosion caused by low pH/low saturation water. At very high saturation, all heaters can be damaged by calcium scale buildup.
My SWG container is clear so I can inspect the cell with out removal. With LSI below zero I cleaned my cell exactly zero times last year.
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