[SOLVED] any pool electricians here? new light trips breaker..

[pmh3986]

EDIT-SOLVED: Confirmed that one of the new conductors got nicked during the pull, inside the damp/metal conduit was causing the intermittent trip. The lamp works fine now.

edit: I swapped in a GFCI only breaker, problem persisted. So I disconnected the Pentair lamp entirely at the JBox and simply wired a receptacle at the JBox - not bonded with the metal enclosure, just the hot, neutral and ground from my panel to the receptacle, and I plugged a radio into it. It too tripped the GFCI after a few minutes. I'm thinking one of the three #14 stranded THWN may have been damaged in the pull. It was 115' mostly through old galvanized conduit. I've yet to confirm but next will run an extension cord to the niche and wire the Pentair lamp to that, and plug it into a pre-existing known good GFCI outlet. My suspicion is it will stay running at that point..
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Scratching my head here.

This is a rehab of a pool built in 1970. Inspector said rough work all looked good (new sub-panel/feeders, all the equipment was moved), said to finish my plan and call him back for final.

Everything is up and running properly, except, the new Pentair Intellibrite 120v light will turn on, it'll run and work properly but then after anywhere from 30 seconds to several minutes the breaker will trip. It does not trip instantly as I'd expect if it were some sort of water intrusion or damaged conductor coming into contact with the metallic conduit (etc.). There's always a long and variable length delay before it trips. Long enough that the WIFI enabled controller activates, I can turn lights on, change colors etc. but then it'll trip.

New #14 insulated conductors (hot, neutral, ground) were pulled through the old metallic conduit from the JBox to the new sub-panel, and the lamp is brand new. The niche is supplied by metallic conduit, with an insulated #8 copper wire running external to the conduit, presumably attached to the backside of the niche (which isn't accessible.)

When I test for continuity, the niche, the JBox, the #8 insulated, the other items attached to the bonding grid (ladders) are all continuous with each other and even to service ground. (The #8 insulated does NOT enter the panel, but since the heater/pump etc. are all both bonded and grounded, this makes sense that the "bond" is also continuous with service ground.

I'm wondering if maybe the breaker itself is the problem, it's a dual function AFCI/GFCI.. (Homeline 20amp single-pole dual function).. Maybe this is nothing more than a nuisance trip of the AFCI component in this context? Is it worth buying a GFCI (not dual function) breaker and seeing if that solves the problem? This breaker doesn't have any LED indicators which indicate the cause of the trip.

Was thinking about simply wiring a lamp or radio to the JBox above ground instead of the pool lamp, just to see if that stays running to eliminate any issues with the run itself..

Barring that, I'm scratching my head. If I can't figure it out, I'll ask the inspector for his thoughts before final, but that's another fee (which is fine, but trying to figure it out myself first)

Thoughts?

 

[ajw22]

AFCI breakers should not used on outdoor pool panels. AFCI is required to prevent sparking from creating in wall fires. Pools have no in wall wiring.

Start by replacing the breaker with a GFCI breaker.

Post pictures of your CB panel and wiring.

 

[pmh3986]

ok.. to be clear, it is a dual function GFCI + AFCI breaker.. I know AFCI has no purpose in a pool, but was wondering if the presence of AFCI detection circuitry in this context could be causing "nuisance" trips..

That said, I was out there a bit ago, I pulled the lamp out of the niche and opened it up just to be sure there isn't any water intrusion, gasket sealed and everything aligned properly (its very particular about alignment of the bonding screw with a notch in the housing, etc..) It doesn't seem wet inside but I noticed a slight discoloration of the metal inside the fixture just beside the grounding lug.. Which could indicate to me that in fact there was an arc between the ground screw and shell.

I had to step away but when I get back to it I'm going to make sure the thing is re-assembled exactly as the instructions specify and can also provide more pictures.

 

[JamesW]

Try it without AFCI.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I believe if you ever open the light then you must replace the gasket.

 

[pmh3986]

I suspect that the instructions to always replace the gasket if you open it are more based on the assumption that it's being opened for service after some time in use, and could be corroded. This is brand new and has never even been exposed to chlorinated water.

 

[ajw22]

I suspect that the instructions to always replace the gasket if you open it are more based on the assumption that it's being opened for service after some time in use, and could be corroded. This is brand new and has never even been exposed to chlorinated water.

Once a pool light gasket is compressed to seal it may not expand and properly seal a second time.

 

[pmh3986]

Once a pool light gasket is compressed to seal it may not expand and properly seal a second time.

That does make sense.. But the installation instructions also described how you can rotate the lens from "N" (narrow) to "W" (wide) based on if the lamp is going at the long end of a pool (like under a diving board, like mine) or along the sides, and to do so required opening it. It did not say to replace the gasket during that step.

 

[1poolman1]

That does make sense.. But the installation instructions also described how you can rotate the lens from "N" (narrow) to "W" (wide) based on if the lamp is going at the long end of a pool (like under a diving board, like mine) or along the sides, and to do so required opening it. It did not say to replace the gasket during that step.

The heat from a pool bulb will cause a gasket to get hard to the point it may not seal if re-used. A new gasket on a light that has not been in service is not really needed. Your reasoning is correct. I have made that change to the lens without issue or a new gasket several times.