New pool install in Tampa, need some help with design questions

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mnm4ever

mnm4ever

0
Oct 17, 2018
73
Odessa, FL
Hi everyone, been lurking here a while and reading advice, etc. My wife and I are about ready to start our install, we chose a builder, were happy with the reviews and price, etc. We even got the design done and signed a contract so we can get it done before summer starts. Then I went home and staked out the design in the yard, and I had some issues. My wife on the other hand, loved the design. That started 2 weeks of arguing that rivals the War of the Roses, all over 1 foot of deck. Let me explain...

We have a slightly unique home, with an alley-load detached garage in the back, separated from the home but connected with a covered breezeway. This gives us a courtyard-style yard between the house and garage, about 39' deep and about 29' feet wide, but surrounded on 3 sides. I will spare you the gory details on the design process, but suffice to say I wanted a small pool and my wife wanted a huge pool, we ended up settling on a 14x28 rectangle with a 7x7 spa along one side roughly centered, and overlapping into the pool about 2 feet or so. This size gave us 6' of deck along the rear wall and breezeway, and 5' of deck along the edge by the house. I will attach all the drawings and diagrams so this will make more sense I am sure. Oh and an important detail is the sun shelf - 7 feet of the 28' length is sun shelf, which I strongly feel will get the most use outside of the spa. No one in our house swims, kids are long gone, this pool is for chilling out and for the dogs.

The problem came in when my wife saw the dimensions of the design from the builder and realized that the remaining "swimming area" that in her mind was going to be 14x28 is really only 14'x21', and cuts down to 12' wide where the spa juts into the pool. To her this was way too small, and she insisted on some changes. We ended up extending the length to 29', and shifting the spa out another foot so it didnt extend into the pool as much. No big deal right?? Except this cuts the deck space along the garage wall and breezeway down to only 5'. Oh and it increased the price by $3000... just for 1 foot!

So I wasn't happy but the designer assured me that 5 feet of deck is plenty, code only requires 3 feet, no one will use that side of the pool, etc etc. When I got home, I staked it out, and like I thought, 5' of deck is too small. To me it makes the pool look too crammed in. I moved the stakes in a foot on one end, 2 feet on the other (13x27) and the proportions look perfect... pool is right sized for the yard, deck is right sized for usage. I got my wife to come look and she loves it. Right up til I tell her the size I made it... and she instantly decides it looks too small and needs to be back to what we decided with the designer. All I am saying here is this is not a logical decision, this is emotional, she is convinced the pool has to be the size she picked and if its too small it will look stupid. I feel like it will look stupid if the pool is too close to the wall and breezeway and we will lose valuable deck and seating space, and no one is ever going to notice 1 foot less of pool. Once its done, we cant move it, we have to live with it forever. I dont want to spend $50k and look at the small deck and be ****** off the rest of my marriage. She is saying that shes paying for it, so I shouldn't care. But I think shes going to regret it, as has happened before.

To those of you still reading this soap opera, thank you. Please look at my attachments and read my story and tell me: Am I being stubborn and ridiculous over 1 feet of deck? Is my wife right... the pool would be too small if we did that? Or I am right, and that extra foot of deck will make it look amazing??

Thanks for any help you can provide. I will be doing a build thread once we get past this last hurdle, if we dont get divorced that is... :)

Here is what we have the contract for, with the smaller deck area:
Capture.JPG

Back of the house:
IMG_4137.jpg

Back of the garage:
IMG_4138.jpg

Smaller staked out pool, but I left the stakes showing the larger area:
smallerpoolstake1.jpgsmallerpoolstake2.jpgsmallerpoolstake3.jpg

Birds eye view from the master bedroom:
smallerpoolstake4.jpg

Original design idea:
OriginalDesignIdea.JPG
 
Willing to dive in on this one...................got some starter questions for you:
-Rules in your area about how close the pool can be to windows-check please
-Can you go closer to the road?

That will get us started. I have some ideas but need these answers first.

Kim:kim:
 
Aside from all the good questions Kim asked, I'm with the missus on this one. Bigger pool and the walkway is fine. I expect a "back" walkway to be smaller and therefore in my mind, it works. I also don't think the walkway is too skinny from a practical standpoint. It is wide enough to get the job done everyday (getting you from the garage to the house without falling in the pool). I get the purpose of the pool is for you two. But it will have more people in it on occasion than you think. Even it is doesn't, go bigger for you.

Also, if you have a bigger pool, if you want to both be in the pool, but you are having another big row like this one, you'll be able to be farther away from each other.
 
Thanks so much!

None of the 9 builders we got estimates from have mentioned any issues with how far from the windows we have to be. Local code says 3 feet from the house structure, and I think even less for shallow end, but we are no closer than 5 feet to anything as it is now.

Yes we can go closer to the road, but we are getting pretty close to the setback where it is. Maybe another foot, which is an option yes... so I can get my extra foot by the breezeway but give up the extra foot by the garage.

Michael
 
Thank you @bmoreswim for your input as well. I would like to mention that I don't think of the garage side as just a walkway. I had visions of making that area a seating/sunning area... it gets great sun most of the afternoon, when we would be in the pool the most. And the breezeway side gets good shade all the time, so I envisioned having some kind of seating there as well. But, that area of the desk is also open to under the breezeway so I would agree it wouldn't feel as cramped even at 5-ft.

And yes... sometimes I will need to be farther away from her... like in the garage apartment LOL
 
One thing that kind of grabbed my attention at first glance was how close the door to the garage is to the edge of the pool. If it opens in, which in the picture I think it appears to do..no issue. But if opens out, that would only give you about 2' between the fully opened door and the water. That might make me a little uncomfortable.
 
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Both of his garage doors are outward swinging, which is the only issue i see. The bigger pool still affords a ton of room around it. With the amount of money you will spend, a few hundred dollars to flip the door around (you will be able to use the same door and jamb) would be worth it.

In all honesty the pools dont look much different in size. The minimum walkway i would want would be 3 feet around the pool to fences or objects.
 
Lets play with this some:
-Shift the pool towards the road. That will give your wife the size she wants and you the decking you want by the breeze way. WIN-WIN!
-Have you thought about putting the sun shelf on the garage end of the pool? That will put in the sunny area.

Just some thoughts. Let me know what you think and we will go from there.

Kim:kim:
 
@BMK and @tampatommy - yes both doors to the garage are outward swinging. The one under the breezeway is not really an issue, but the other one will basically dump out the pool. That was another concern of mine with the amount of decking. I dont want to flip the door around because then it will swing into the garage and cars, and that's already a tight space. I use the garage a lot... and I wanted to be able to go in and out that door to the back yard entertainment space. Yet another reason for me to get the extra deck space on that end.

And yes tampatommy the pools are essentially identical in size. That's why when I staked out the yard my wife couldn't tell the difference - 1 foot shorted both ways, the spa a little further in the pool, that's about it. So one way to look at it is she is being picky and stubborn and in the end no one will notice a difference. The other way of looking at it is I am being the same exact way. :)

@kimkats - We will likely be able to shift the pool towards the road another foot; meeting with the PB on Thursday to make some modifications. He was saying something about its going to be too close to the easement, but honestly I don't see how, its currently 7.5 feet away from the easement at the closest point... I want to shift the pool a foot. I think he thinks I want to make a bigger change. But that doesn't solve the problem of the deck by the garage. The only way to make that work is to make the pool shorter, or give up space on the front side. I feel like we could give up space there, because in my mind there is no way we are going to put chairs or anything in front of the pool, its just going to be an entrance to the sun shelf, and there is a covered patio there giving extra deck along most of it. But someone told my wife it would look bad being closer to the house so she doesn't want to do that. I could give up a foot on the sunshelf, making it 14x6, but I feel like we would use that space more than the swim area... my wife agrees but still doesn't want to give up a foot from the swim space. Hence the point of all this time wasted and arguments and posting.

And yes, my original design had the sun shelf at the other end, where it would be in the sun, but I lost that battle. The designer said it was better to have the sun shelf where you typically enter the pool, by the house. My wife didn't want to give up space on that end for the shelf and then space at the other end for the stairs (no I dont understand the difference but she insists).
 

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You need to factor in space for fencing around the pool. Especially along the road. How much of a setback from the curb does the fence need?

That garage door opening out to the pool caught my attention. That area is going to need to be well lit at night to ensure soneone does not step out of that door into the pool.

Do you have any building codes about impervious coverage limits of a lot?

I don’t think losing a foot of swim space will ever be noticeable when in the pool. It is you who has to live with her.
 
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With all those straight lines in the house, garage and lanai I'd suggest adding some scenic interest by putting in a kidney shaped pool or something with curves and shape. Then landscaping around the curves a bit.

Bigger is better. Allows for some actual relaxed swimming. 14x 30 or so maybe? 12 x 32 isn't bad...

Just some suggestions.

Maddie :flower:
 
I just thought of something else. Your depth. I see 3' going to 5'. 3' is too shallow and 5' is too deep LOL Take a tape measure and see where these two depths hit you and your wife. If I am hearing you right this pool will be more of a social pool than a swimming pool. We call this a spool! Am I on the right track with my thinking?
 
Wow lots of great responses and questions, thanks everyone! Sorry to not get to this until now, I was in meetings all morning. Let me try to answer your questions:

@ajw22 - We are on an alley on the side and back of our house, so the fence can be all the way out to 6 inches from the curb. We should have no problem with fenced area, we got the fence quote and survey ready yesterday to submit to the HOA.

Agreed, the door is close and will be lit with a motion light. It is still to close IMO. We also do have codes about the impervious lot coverage, but we are well within the guidelines. Because the breezeway connects the garage to the house, both of them are counted as main dwelling footprint. The additional construction footprint only applies to the pool deck, and we are well within the 20%. And I agree... losing a foot of pool with never be noticeable to anyone but my wife!

@YippeeSkippy - My wife wanted a freeform pool when we first started, and had our first design done like that. It looked great and I loved it, but my wife didnt like it. All of the PBs we have got estimates from have said that our house looks better with the straight lines, so that is what she wanted. As for bigger is better... we are at 14x29 now, adding more length isnt going to solve my deck dilemma! But honestly, we dont swim. If we did swim, there is a huge pool in the community for actual swimming. We have had pools before, all we do is sit along the edges, or float around sunbathing. The dogs swim, but they are small dogs. I predict the spa will be what is used 80% of the time, as she is always cold and likes the heated water the most.

@kimkats - Yes, you are on the right track, this is a social pool! But we can't call it a spool, my wife HATES that word because this original process started out with me pushing an actual spool. A couple of the model homes here have them and I loved that idea, just a large spa with benches all around and jets. Lower cost, more along the lines of what we use it for, it would fit really nicely in the courtyard area and we could have some nice outdoor living areas around it, etc. She hated the idea. So I moved on to about a 12x20-ish sized pool, and she wanted something 20x40-ish, and we eventually ended up here.

As for depth, it should be 3.5' at the shallow end, going to 5' at the deep end. I did not want this.. I wanted 4' and flat all the way across. I was outvoted... the PB said that was too deep for the shallow end and that taller ppl would hate it never getting deeper. So thats how we ended up with 3.5-5'.
 
Who is this pool for? Who is paying to this pool?? Answers=YOU and YOUR wife! Who cares what a tall person that does not live there or pay for any of it thinks??? Build it for YOU and HER! Where will 5' hit her? She will never be able to use it for much of anything in that part of the pool :(
 
@kimkats - I know right?? She is 5'5", and I am only an inch taller than her! I wanted to be able to walk across the entire pool. Every other pool we have had has been too deep to touch over around half of it and what happens is we end up using just the shallow end to hang out, and sometimes we float over to the tiny little swimout bench on the deep side to sit there.

So when we started designing this pool I wanted the 4 foot party pool depth all the way across, with big benches along most of the sides, for hanging out. My wife did not like this, the PB's did not like it, so again I got outvoted. She is going along with some of the benches, but she thinks we need 5' depth. I think with the pool being relatively short, there will be too much slope too. One good point the PB made is that here in Florida during the summer the pool water gets pretty hot when the pool is too shallow, from the strong sun. But I dont know if that is true. Most of our pools in the past were not heated and they were unbearably cold most of the time.

What do you think of 3'6" to 4'6"?
 
My wife found the original free form design that we got from one of the PB... this is the one I loved when I saw it, and she didn't like it. I know everyone loves to look at pictures, so I thought I would post them for you guys, see what you think!

I really like this design, to me it captures exactly how I think we will use the pool. He incorporated a trellis along the garage side, which I wanted. But he also positioned the pool too far out into the side yard. I love the deck space but we dont want to give up all of that side yard, we have dogs and thats all of the area they have to explore. We also probably will not do that much landscaping around the pool, but it does give it a nice tropical feel. We would have to orient the pool a little differently and closer to the breezeway but it would be pretty close to the same as you see here.

There are two designs... the first with the spa by the garage, the other with it flipped to be by the main house.

IMG_4933.jpgIMG_4934.jpgIMG_4935.jpgIMG_4936.jpgIMG_4937.jpgIMG_4938.jpg
 
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