Auto-fill plumbing

[tcat]

This is my auto-fill plumbing, seems to work, but are all the valves really necessary? Thinking an anti siphon is all that's needed. Thinking of replumbing because there's a cast iron fitting off the spigot; everytime water starts, some rust enters the pool.

Also, is there an inline filter I could put there to reduce calcium (hard water)?

 

[Ahultin]

TBH, you only have a pressure vaccuum breaker on your autofill valve, in our area ,to protect the house (and potentially the city supply) it has to be a full blown RPZ backflow preventer so i would caution against cutting it out and just putting an anti-siphon

Back Flow Preventer - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

As for the rust, the potable water supply should have had a lead free cast brass TEE installed instead of cast iron

 

[tcat]

I believe everything is brass except a coupling between the spigot and the first shut-off, and possibly the T. It's been a couple years since I wrapped it. I think I'll leave it alone, who knows how corroded shut it could be with hard water.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

TBH, you only have a pressure vaccuum breaker on your autofill valve, in our area ,to protect the house (and potentially the city supply) it has to be a full blown RPZ backflow preventer so i would caution against cutting it out and just putting an anti-siphon

Back Flow Preventer - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

As for the rust, the potable water supply should have had a lead free cast brass TEE installed instead of cast iron
View attachment 631826

In CA this may be true but in many states the codes vary. In AZ all one needs is the setup that @tcat has. A simple back-flow preventer is all that is required.

@tcat - the rust is caused by the cast iron. You should never mix cast iron pipe or fittings with brass. That combination causes galvanic corrosion that will eventually completely eat away the cast iron and cause a leak. I had the same issue on mine many years ago because the pool plumber’s apprentice put a 3” cast iron nipple between two brass fittings. Almost had a leak in my garage wall because of that mistake. It doesn’t take long once the rust form for the cast iron to become compromised because the corrosion is a continuous chemical reaction. You should disassemble the line and remove any cast iron you find.

 

[tcat]

In CA this may be true but in many states the codes vary. In AZ all one needs is the setup that @tcat has. A simple back-flow preventer is all that is required.

@tcat - the rust is caused by the cast iron. You should never mix cast iron pipe or fittings with brass. That combination causes galvanic corrosion that will eventually completely eat away the cast iron and cause a leak. I had the same issue on mine many years ago because the pool plumber’s apprentice put a 3” cast iron nipple between two brass fittings. Almost had a leak in my garage wall because of that mistake. It doesn’t take long once the rust form for the cast iron to become compromised because the corrosion is a continuous chemical reaction. You should disassemble the line and remove any cast iron you find.

"Disassemble the line" could be an issue since this is 14 years like this. I'm guessing I'll need a new spigot since the cast iron is probably an integral part of it now. Plumber time... but I'll probably wait for it to leak. Seems complicated just for fill water.

 

[Ahultin]

looks like Austin has required an rpz for many years
Texas admin code 265.187
the Austin Plumbing Code mandates the use of a Reduced Pressure Zone (RPZ) backflow preventer, as approved by the American Society of Sanitary Engineering Standard 1013, for high-hazard situations like pool auto-fills.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You can certainly wait if you want but I wouldn’t recommend it. If the cast iron is on the high pressure side of the line then a catastrophic leak could result in a lot of water loss. I don’t know what Austin water rates are but here in Tucson even a small dripping leak can cost one a lot of money. And if the leak occurs inside the wall, which was where part of my rotting iron pipe was located, then you’re looking at possible structural damage, mold, etc.

Pipe work isn’t hard, you just need a few good wrenches, some pipe nipple extractors (many varieties at any hardware store) and new fittings. Teflon tape and teflon thread sealant are good to have on hand as well. As long as you’re careful and you keep everything orderly, it’s not hard. You can pay a plumber to do it at whatever their going rate is but you need to make sure they understand that no cast iron is allowed, brass only. They’ll all roll their eyes at you but you just tell them what you want …. and be prepared to pay them a good chunk of change for their time and inflated materials costs.

 

[tcat]

I cut off the insulation. Looks like it's just one steel nipple, why would anyone do this, all other parts brass or PVC. Good thing there's a union.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah, they got lazy. They used a cast iron nipple between the Tee and the valve probably because they didn't have that length in brass.

I would rebuild everything coming out of the wall but you're going to have to shutoff the main water since it's on the pressure side unless that pipe has its own shutoff somewhere else. You may want to take that picture with you and a bunch of measurements down to the hardware store and see what's available in brass. Often times, brass nipples aren't always stocked in varying sizes (because good plumbers can cut their own copper pipe to make whatever size they need or they'll braze on fittings they need). So you may need to skip the big box stores and go to a plumbing supply store. They're more likely to have a wider selection of fittings and precut nipples.

 

[tcat]

Yeah, they got lazy. They used a cast iron nipple between the Tee and the valve probably because they didn't have that length in brass.

I would rebuild everything coming out of the wall but you're going to have to shutoff the main water since it's on the pressure side unless that pipe has its own shutoff somewhere else. You may want to take that picture with you and a bunch of measurements down to the hardware store and see what's available in brass. Often times, brass nipples aren't always stocked in varying sizes (because good plumbers can cut their own copper pipe to make whatever size they need or they'll braze on fittings they need). So you may need to skip the big box stores and go to a plumbing supply store. They're more likely to have a wider selection of fittings and precut nipples.

So you don't recommend just changing to a brass nipple? Just ordered one from Amazon so I'll have it. I guess depends how corroded the brass threads are after 14 years.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

So you don't recommend just changing to a brass nipple? Just ordered one from Amazon so I'll have it. I guess depends how corroded the brass threads are after 14 years.

You can just replace the nipple too. I'm a bit OCD, so I would do everything anyway since the water is going to be off. The brass fittings will be fine, they don't corrode. It's the cast iron that corrodes and breaks down since the brass (mostly copper and zinc) is more noble than iron. This is why fittings should never be mixed like that and any plumber that knows their trade knows you DON'T do that. So I'm guessing whoever was put in charge of making that autofill connection was probably not the licensed plumber but someone's assistant. Around here it happens a lot because the plumber with the license is the business owner and he (or she) rarely does sweaty work. They hire cheap labor or kids right out of trade school that know nothing and they send them out to deal with the customers. Then you wind up with nonsense like what you have there ...

You can easily clean up those fittings with a stiff wire brush. Just make sure when you attach the nipple you wind layer of teflon tape on to the threads and then apply a small dab of teflon paste on to the tape. Then thread it into the fitting and tighten it down. Tape + paste creates a leak-proof seal. It's a trick I learned from my grandpa who wasn't ever licensed at anything but could rewire and replumb an entire house without missing a thing.

He also tested for live wires by touching them to the back of his thumb to see what kind of shock it produced ... he could tell 120 from 240 without fail ... I don't recommend his method of voltage testing ....