ASR - Concrete Cancer - Austin, TX

This looks like it might be ASR, but it might also just be a skim coat flaking off.

What does it look like underneath if you chip off a section?

I would cut about 1/4" deep at the green lines and pop out the two sections marked by red Xs and see if the cracks are deep or just in a surface skim layer.

img_4143-jpeg.493704

1684562647403.png
 
If you tap on this does it sound hollow?

If yes, it is probably a skim coat that is delaminating.

Was this finished gunite or did the builder return to skim coat it to make it smooth?
 
Hello @jftexan @Hchang; so it looks like I may be dealing with ASR myself, pool built late 2020 here in Leander with the same pool builder. I managed to get a hold of them today 5/19 and they mentioned the exact same thing about ASR, that they’ve gotten a core sample from one of the homeowners and that have sent to Houston for composition analysis, awaiting results in the next 2 weeks.

If you guys are local, do you want to meet up to discus or get on a Conf call? I’m super concerned, here are my pics.
In my opinion, this is probably not ASR.

The plaster cracks are probably just plaster delaminating.

The external cracks are probably just a skim coat delaminating.

Long straight cracks are not ASR.

I suspect that a lot of non-ASR cracks are being attributed to ASR by builders to shift liability from their work to the concrete supplier.

In any case, only a qualified engineer can determine the cause of the cracks, and if it is, or is not, ASR.

Core drilled samples from your pool will be required to provide a definitive diagnosis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Newdude
This looks like it might be ASR, but it might also just be a skim coat flaking off.

What does it look like underneath if you chip off a section?

I would cut about 1/4" deep at the green lines and pop out the two sections marked by red Xs and see if the cracks are deep or just in a surface skim layer.

img_4143-jpeg.493704

View attachment 493856
If I try to chip away to investigate myself, will that work against me later if PB and insurance say that I tampered with the surface? I'm inquistive now that you mention this. Take a look at the other pictures with the crazy calcification oozing out, what are your thoughts on those pics?
 
Take a look at the other pictures with the crazy calcification oozing out, what are your thoughts on those pics?
That is efflorescence from water coming out.

I would chip off the surface to investigate.

It's not going to affect anything (In my opinion).

It's not going to affect the ability of an engineer to determine if it is ASR or not.

To determine if it is ASR, you need to core drill several samples and have them professionally analyzed by a qualified testing laboratory.

If the surface flakes off and reveals normal concrete underneath, then it is probably not ASR.

If I try to chip away to investigate myself, will that work against me later if PB and insurance say that I tampered with the surface?
Note: I am not a concrete expert and I am just giving my opinion.

Only you can decide what you feel comfortable doing.

If you really want to get a definitive diagnosis, then you need your own expert who can advise you what to do.

You can ask the builder and insurance company if they object to you chipping off a small section to investigate.

If they object, ask them to give a detailed explanation of why they don't want you doing anything.

What has the builder done to investigate and provide a diagnosis and a remediation?

What does the insurance company say?
 
Hi. I’m in Leander. While I don't know they we have ASR, I have a little different situation than Hchang. My pool is holding water, but my attached raised spa is leaking about a gallon an hour that is NOT evaporation. I too have cracks all over the place: decking, tile, coping, plaster, pool and spa. Skimmers have a small crack. I have a 12 x 30 pool/spa on a 2' slope that has a faux edge wall that is about 6' above grade. We have done no repairs yet, only a small amount of demo on the spa. We had the pool company and the Structural Engineer on the original engineering print. Both the pool company and structural engineer are telling me they think it’s ASR. My Pool Builder is the same as Hchang. They told us the same story ; i.e. "they have 9 pools built around the time ours were that are cracking like this. We are the 9th". I will be doing a concrete core test soon. I am trying to get my shotcrete provider to supply their mix / aggregate records dating back to Aug 4 2021. We should all keep in touch. I too think a class action lawsuit is probably where something this big is headed too, but I have not contacted a lawyer yet.
IMG_5247.jpg

I can send pictures if interested.
Hi @jableander Did your PB already take a core sample drilled out yet? If yes, did you have to coordinate it yourself, or PB coordinated everything?
 
Hi. I’m in Round Rock. Pretty sure I have ASR as well. Right now my pool is technically holding water. But I have cracks all over the place: decking, tile, coping, one confirmed in plaster and extends to exterior etc. Both skimmers cracked (now repaired). We had the pool company come out and look. They were the ones to tell us they think it’s ASR. They have 9 pools built around the time ours were that are cracking like this. It’s devastating. I don’t even know where to begin. It’s appearing more and more to be a widespread issue here in Central Texas. And sounds as though it funnels back to one major distributor. Although I’m unclear who that is exactly.

Pool installed 2020. Southpaw Pools

We should keep in touch. I think a class action lawsuit is probably where something this big is headed.
Hi @Hchang Did your PB already take a core sample drilled out yet? If yes, did you have to coordinate it yourself, or PB coordinated everything?
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support




 
Note: Provided as a reference, not a recommendation.

Includes pictures of typical ASR patterns.

As you can see, the cracks are a crazed pattern, not long and straight.

You typically cannot see the concrete (shotcrete or gunite) in a pool.

The back is below ground, the top is covered by coping and the inside is tile and plaster.

Even if you get crazing in the plaster, it might just be in the plaster.

The only way to see the concrete is to strip off a large area of plaster to see if the concrete has the telltale cracks.

Then, you need core drilled samples professionally analyzed.

We are currently representing residents of Central Texas who had pools installed between 2017 and 2021 and are now experiencing significant cracking in the pool cement. We have learned that concrete used to build pools in Central Texas during this time period was faulty, resulting in cracking due to a process known as Alkali Silica Reaction. If you had a pool installed between 2017 and 2021, and your pool cement is cracking, give us a call today for a free consultation to see how we can help you. Call today at 512-487-8223 or email us at [email protected] to schedule an appointment. We represent all clients on a contingency fee basis and only get paid if you recover.

WHY IS MY POOL CRACKING?​

For pool owners in Central Texas, the most likely cause of your pool cracking is Alkali Silica Reaction, commonly referred to as ASR or Concrete Cancer. In short, ASR is a chemical reaction that occurs when the wrong materials are used to make concrete. The process of making cement requires the use of aggregate materials, such as sand and crushed stone, to make the cement stronger. If the aggregate material contains silica, it can result in a chemical reaction between the alkali in cement, the silica, and water. This is what causes the pool cement to crack.

Cement companies are very aware that aggregate materials that contain silica will cause this reaction if the cement is in contact with water. Typically, a cement company supplying cement for pools will avoid the use of aggregates containing silica if possible. If not possible, there are additives, such as fly ash, that can be added to stop the ASR reaction from occurring. During 2017 to 2021, fly ash was hard to acquire and expensive, so it appears some cement companies simply left it out of the cement mix used for pools.

HOW DO I KNOW IF MY POOL CEMENT IS CRACKING DUE TO ASR?​

The only way to be sure that your pool cracking is due to ASR requires a sample of the concrete to be sent to a lab for testing. However, ASR does have unique cracking patterns that can help you identify if ASR is the likely cause of the pool cracking. First, the cracking occurs in the portion of the pool cement in constant contact with water. Second, the cracking appears in a distinct eggshell type pattern as shown in the pictures above. Third, the cracking is typically accompanied by an oozing gel in the cracks. If your pool cracking is consistent with these three criteria, you should suspect ASR.

CAN THE POOL BE REPAIRED?​

Technically, ASR can affect only a portion of a concrete structure, and when that’s the case, you can remove the portion of the concrete infected with ASR. In most cases, however, the entire pool will need to be removed and redone because the bad cement mixture that leads to ASR is in the entire pool.

IF I SUSPECT ASR WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT?​

Litigation against various pool builders and concrete companies has already begun. Do not stay on the sideline. Now is the time to assert a claim to make sure your rights are protected. Call us today for a free consultation at 512-487-8223. We represent all pool cracking clients on a contingency fee basis, so you owe us nothing unless you recover.
Untitled-design-11.png

 
All you can see here is the skimcoat.

That tells you nothing about the structural concrete underneath.

In my opinion, I would strip off all loose skimcoat so that you can see the actual structural concrete.

If you see that the structural concrete is good, you can refinish the topcoat as you like.

img_4143-jpeg.493704
 
I, too, am having this problem (same builder mentioned earlier). Pool builder thinks it’s ASR. They are waiting for core samples to come back on some of their 9 other pools with similar issues. We asked for their insurance companies info along with their suppliers and they have said everything must now go through their attorneys. Currently in the process of hiring my own attorney. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.
Who is your builder
 
Hi everyone newbie, to these major pool problems. Our pool is 3 year old built by one of top builders in area. We bought the house and hoped that it’s built by good reputable company should have good craftsmanship. However, we are noticing new cracks everyday in pool and hot tub.
1. Has anyone gotten ASR test done and would be willing to share their lab info if you were happy with their work.
2. Are warranties really voided if pool was resale, pool builder is saying they are.
3. Would it covered by home owner insurance?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1537.jpeg
    IMG_1537.jpeg
    693.5 KB · Views: 96
  • IMG_1538.jpeg
    IMG_1538.jpeg
    578.7 KB · Views: 100
  • IMG_1359.jpeg
    IMG_1359.jpeg
    679.2 KB · Views: 95
  • IMG_1361.jpeg
    IMG_1361.jpeg
    592.3 KB · Views: 94
  • IMG_1364.jpeg
    IMG_1364.jpeg
    632.9 KB · Views: 90
  • IMG_1495.jpeg
    IMG_1495.jpeg
    517.1 KB · Views: 93
  • IMG_1496.jpeg
    IMG_1496.jpeg
    640.6 KB · Views: 97
  • IMG_1494.jpeg
    IMG_1494.jpeg
    603.3 KB · Views: 99
  • IMG_1536.jpeg
    IMG_1536.jpeg
    748.3 KB · Views: 102
2. Are warranties really voided if pool was resale, pool builder is saying they are.
You have to read the warranty.
3. Would it covered by home owner insurance?
You have to ask your insurance company.

We really can't get into legal issues.

We would like to stay focused on the technical issues based on science and engineering.

None of your pictures points to ASR.

You have to look at the actual gunite or shotcrete to determine if it might be ASR.

All you can see is external coatings.

In my opinion, ASR is being blamed for every crack in Austin Texas and the surrounding area when there is no basis for blaming ASR.
 
We bought the house and hoped that it’s built by good reputable company should have good craftsmanship.
Did you get an inspection before you bought the house?

The time to address the issue is before you agree to buy the property.

That's the time to negotiate who will pay for the repairs.

The previous owners might have been able to file a warranty claim and get it fixed under warranty.

At this time, you might need an attorney to advise you about legal issues as they are complicated and involve multiple parties.

You might need an engineer with pool expertise to evaluate your pool and give you a diagnosis and a plan for remediation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nisha_misha
You can see the plaster, tile, coping and deck, but none of that really matters in diagnosing the problem with the concrete.

To diagnose ASR, you have to be able to see the actual gunite or shotcrete.

I would want to see about 10 square feet of the structure to see if it has the characteristic cracking pattern.

At that point, you can probably get a preliminary diagnosis that it is probably ASR or it is probably not ASR.

You would also need core drilled samples to be taken for analysis to determine the definite diagnosis.

I would want an engineering team with structural engineering expertise and specifically concrete structures and geotechnical engineering expertise.

In my opinion, if it is advanced ASR, the only remedy is removing and replacing everything.

If is not ASR, then the remediation plan will depend on the diagnosis of the cause of the cracks.

You should check the pool for being level by checking to see if the water level is exactly the same around the entire perimeter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nisha_misha
You can see the plaster, tile, coping and deck, but none of that really matters in diagnosing the problem with the concrete.

To diagnose ASR, you have to be able to see the actual gunite or shotcrete.

I would want to see about 10 square feet of the structure to see if it has the characteristic cracking pattern.

At that point, you can probably get a preliminary diagnosis that it is probably ASR or it is probably not ASR.

You would also need core drilled samples to be taken for analysis to determine the definite diagnosis.

I would want an engineering team with structural engineering expertise and specifically concrete structures and geotechnical engineering expertise.

In my opinion, if it is advanced ASR, the only remedy is removing and replacing everything.

If is not ASR, then the remediation plan will depend on the diagnosis of the cause of the cracks.

You should check the pool for being level by checking to see if the water level is exactly the same around the entire perimeter.
Thanks James, What does water level tell me. How to measure it accurately, just by looking at it , it looks off.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support