18 x 33 x 56" Semi-In Ground NJ

[Brian.O1484]

Good morning all,

SOUTHERN NJ HERE. So I made the mistake of asking on a facebook group and that was more useless than anything, few good points made but other than that is was the people bashing what I want to do . Have been trying to get quotes for about a month for a May installation and due to their communication and info they provide I really liked Niagra Pools & Spas in Turnersville NJ. The 3 others I contacted either never contacted me back or once they did it was like phone tag to get ahold of them, not something I want to deal with during installation! Pricing from Niagra Pool quote are below, this is semi-in ground approximately 30":

$17,595 -Pool Package: 18' x 33' x 56" Sharkline* Oasis EAW (Extruded Aluminum Wall) pool, Liner, 1.5hp 120v variable speed pump and filter, skimmer, 1 return port, cover, and maintenance/cleaning kit
$1,100 - Salt chlorinator system w/salt
$350 - Wedding cake steps
$200 - Wall foam
$2,900 - Pool Installation
$22,145 total cost for pool

Site Work Quote:
$5,000 - Excavation and haul away of soil in addition to about 5 yards of fill that's in a pile at our property
$3,200 - Backfill of pool using excavated soil: will need to be moved by hand due to space

If your anything like me you probably pooped a bit with the number for site work lol, I will say the guy that came out to do a site visit told me moving dirt is expensive, not bashing them at all, labor aint cheap!! Highly considering doing the site work myself, pool guy told me that isn't an issue with any of their warranties and they will come out to check when it's done for right depth/level. Sunbelt was under $3,000 for a week rental of a 6 ton mini excavator, 7 yard Dump, and ground protection pads. Don't think it will take a week but quote that for worst case. Before anyone says it, I know this is around 70 yards of dirt, I know it's not easy, and as far as operating I dug the foundation for my garage (blue building in the pic) and my patio by myself for the most part, I'm no expert but I can operate, I own a transit and a laser level; just getting all that out there because that's what everyone wanted to comment on with the FB post .

With all that being said I had a few questions for additions and backfill

Backfill:
-Sandy soil in my area, good to just use what comes out of the hole for backfill?
-Recommend any barrier between ground and exterior of pool wall?
-Was also thinking pavers OR rubber mulch/river rock/pebbles 24" around pool

Install/Pool Add-ons:
-Liner pad OR Perlite on top of sand base
-Foam coving
-Additional return jet on far wall
-Hard pipe everything (would be extra for pool Co. to do
-Larger pump? is a 1.5hp good enough for 20k gallons?

Anything else that you would recommend is appreciated. We aren't rich but we aren't broke either lol. We are kind of doing the bare minimum for it this year with a small exterior entry step with plans of doing landscaping, lighting, larger entry deck/step, and some other add-ons NEXT season or winter since we are already doing some fencing this year during the install.

Thank you for the help! Site pics are attached, sorry they are crappy I was outside last night marking. And the yard will be spotless prior to starting! Have to move the wood pile and purge some out to the curb! Also, setbacks are correct and marked on the pics along with the pool shape. Out township requires 6' from p[roperty lines and we have a 20' utility easement on the far side.

 

[Newdude]

Hey Brian and Welcome !!!!

NICE choice with the extruded aluminum. I inherited a semi inground aquasport type pool and it was a TANK. The parts in the dirt for 17 years came out as good as the day they were installed.




The walls behind the liner were a tad dirty/moldy but would have cleaned like new with some soapy water. Again, for 17 years, I cannot say enough good things about it.



It fought me for most of a day trying to remove it with a full set of power tools. In frustration I stabbed the bejeezus out of it with a 4 ft crowbar and it laughed at that too. I barely scratched the paint.



So do whatever you like best for landscaping up to it, the usual moisture retaining concerns are all but removed. (Mine had white gravel around it).

Its designed to be in the mud so you can backfill with the overdig with these.



Post up the equipment model#s. If the upgrade cost isn't substantial, a larger pump moves more water at the same RPM, allowing lower RPMs for the same flow. (Energy savings long term) 120V may be a limiting factor with the selection and going with a 220V feed will probably cost a bunch more. Still though, it's better to over engineer the electric now, and whatever happens down the road is covered.

You want a SWG that is 2X or more of the pool volume. They are rated for 24/7 runtime and have a finite lifespan like a gas tank. If you run it half as often, it lasts twice as long, and you save up to 12 hours of pump electricity per day. The upsize charge is a fraction of the lifespan gained. For example, a 2X unit may be 30% more for 100% more life. The bulk of the cost is getting in the game, moving to better seats doesn't reflect that.

Ovals/circles perform fairly well with the 'toilet bowl' method/flow, but adding a 2nd skimmer and return on opposite ends will help alot.

There's 100 opinions on the floor, they use sand by me. While it can be formed with sand / vermiculite, a foam cove is worth every penny.

If you aren't building a deck, consider really wide stairs and a confer (spell?) half ladder.





Search above for aquasport 52 build or various relevant combos like that to see others for inspiration.

 

[Newdude]

Also. A larger filter of any style needs cleaning proportionately less. Similar to the SWG, going larger is cheaper than you would think. They last a generation so the upcharge is peanuts spread over 20 years, yet it will be appreciated each and every time it doesn't need cleaning yet. For example, 50% more cost for half the cleanings........ year after year.

I'm a cartridge guy, and the forum as a whole is leaning that way too, but i still respect the other 2. You only need to go to the store, and a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge will get you there just fine.

 

[sande005]

Can't give any meaningful feedback on the pool itself - @Newdude is the one for that. Looking at the pics, however, you may want to demo out that tree next to the fence. Excavation/hardscape might be an issue with it surviving (but I'm no tree expert). More of an issue will be all the "stuff" both spring and fall it will be dropping into your pool. Plus more sun = warmer water.

 

[Newdude]

you may want to demo out that tree next to the fence

I took out several similar solely because once the pool went in, removal would be far more delicate.

 

[Brian.O1484]

So pump-wise you would recommend a 2hp? And do you think 120 or 220v? Waiting for permits as I'm going to be running electrical out there for this project from the blue garage so its really not going to be that much different cost wise to run the electric. Cost of pump I'm not sure though.

All good stuff so far and the positive pointers are appreciated! the tree on the right I'm going to dig a small test trench by hand to see where the root system is spread, granted I know it's a tree and roots will grow anywhere they please but I'm already taking down the second tree to the left of the tiny shed due to it pushing the fence and want to keep some natural shade for the yard and the house. Shade sails were another thing on the list for next season though too. I know keeping the trees is another edge to that sword with Maintenace and cleanup. As far as shade that area of the yard still gets pretty good sun until 4-5pm during the spring summer with the trees, I work outside or in a non-conditioned shop so I could care less how cold the water is although I'm sure my wife may disagree

 

[Newdude]

So pump-wise you would recommend a 2hp?

With an unlimited budget, i prefer 3HP then dial it way down to your needs.

With a already blown budget, you want as big as is reasonably affordable while upgrading. For example, maybe it's only 10% more to go 2HP, but double to go 3HPm.

And do you think 120 or 220v?

You never know when the Mrs will demand a 60A heat pump. Jussayin.

I'm going to dig a small test trench by hand to see where the root system is spread

Its not the best pic, but looks like an oak. If so the go mostly down like a tooth root and not out. Those 'roots' may be as wide as your waist tho. And 17 more as thick as your thigh.

 

[Mdragger88]

Welcome @Brian.O1484 !
I left some links for you on your other post
I see @Newdude has u going in the right direction!
I would nail down the exact equipment that’s been quoted (brand & models)

 

[Mdragger88]

16100 x 2 =32,200- so you want a 35k gal rated swcg or larger.
The more it produces the less you will need to run it - this will prolong its finite cell life and reduce electricity consumption.

 

[Brian.O1484]

With a already blown budget, you want as big as is reasonably affordable while upgrading. For example, maybe it's only 10% more to go 2HP, but double to go 3HPm.

You never know when the Mrs will demand a 60A heat pump. Jussayin.

The heat pump is a no go i already squashed that! The power bills would give me a heart attack lmao, I did however tell my wife I would get a wood boiler for heating the pool, and MAYBE a hot tub down the line .

I will ask about the specifics of the pool package and the pumps to see if I can upgrade

 

[Newdude]

The heat pump is a no go i already squashed that!

Nothing rhymes with happy husband. So.

 

[Brian.O1484]

Nothing rhymes with happy husband. So.

An unfortunate part of society

 

[Brian.O1484]

@Newdude @Mdragger88 Alright so Niagra pools got back to me on the info I requested this is what I got:

"We are a dealer for Blue Torrent pumps and filters. The pump itself is 1.5 HP, 2 speed which is plenty for your size pool. The sand filter is 19”, but going up to a 23” would probably be better ($100 more).

The salt chlorinator: we have 1 Pentair Ichlor30 left – we will probably be going with a different brand this year and we don’t have the information on that yet. The Ichlor30 covers up to 30,000 gallons. It is $1450 for the unit and the cell and then $600 for the installation.

Liners are unibead 25 gauge. We do not have other options for above/semi-inground pools.

So the package price for that size pool is $17,595. If you want to just buy the pool, liner and skimmer (no pump, filter, etc) from us it would be $14,995."

I spoke with the guy that came and did the site visit and is part of the install/construction team. He said "I like where you head is at with your ideas! But one thing to look out for is pump size because you will only suck so much water out of 1 skimmer. Mentioned coving too, he said they usually use sand, so is it a better option for $200 to go with foam coving? Id have to order elsewhere as they don't stock that but they do stock the wall foam which I added.

So what are your thoughts on this? Should I stick with what they provide? Or should I get the pump and filter myself with the $2,600 it knocks off the price? I will add, if everything is purchased through them for the pool package you get 50% of any parts purchased in the future so I'm not sure if that would factor in any more for y'all.
Do I think we'll get a pool heater at some point? Probably, NOT an electric or gas one but we probably will get one at some point. Same thing with any other add-ons you can get for the pool for cooling the water.

 

[Mdragger88]

You don’t want an ichlor. If going with pentair for swcg get an ic 40.
If that’s out if budget check out the various circupool options at discount salt pool.com
The ratings on swcgs are based on running them 24/7 @100%. That’s really not something you want to do as your cell won’t last long in “people years” thus the recommendation for at least 2x’s the volume.
A 2 speed pump is fine - bigger hp is better as this will be reduced on low speed which you would want to use 99% of the time.
I have a 1.5 hp single speed pump with 1 skimmer and I appreciate its suction/skimming power. My pool has 2 returns which I can adjust.
If i were to get a 2 speed I would do at least 2hp or 3hp vsp if I could afford it.
Blue torrent is kind of an off brand with questionable warranty support.
You can likely build a better alternative package for that $2600
For the sand filter bigger is better of course. The bigger the filter the less you need to backwash.

All these component’s parts should not be super expensive after the warranty period expires. Aside from my pump itself being replaced under the 3yr warranty the only parts I have needed since 2018 were some orings and a plug which totalled less than $20. I wouldn’t get equipment i really don’t want for a possible future discount. Ymmv.
That said - the ichlor really only has 1 replaceable part (flow switch) so if it has other problems out of warranty you must replace the whole unit. Then a 50% discount for might be a good deal but not if they don’t carry it anymore.

Pentair iChlor SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

$600 to install the swcg seems steep. Many people do this themselves.
I simply have a timer that my swcg & my pump are plugged into so the cell can’t operate when the pump is not on.
My timer is just plugged in.
There are also hardwired timers that can operate on 110 or 220 whichever is required for your pump. Swcgs can be set for either depending upon whatever your pump is. This method is recommended unless you run the pump 24/7 as relying upon the flow switch alone isn’t recommended. The pump & swcg should have the same power source so if the breaker trips they both shut off.
At the very least I would suggest an alternative swcg than the one they offer.

As for foam cove- its really a personal choice. It definitely makes install easier than shaping a sand cove for a diy’er.
Seasoned installers should have no trouble either way. There are pros & cons of both.
Unibead liner is great if installed in the bead receiver instead of hooking it over the pool wall then replacement in the future will not require removing the top rails. This is important if you plan to have a deck around the pool as it makes liner replacement much easier as top rails are hard to reach without disturbing a deck.

 

[Newdude]

A 2 speed pump is fine - bigger hp is better as this will be reduced on low speed which you would want to use 99% of the time.

I always worry about smaller 2 speed pumps not having enough flow on the low speed for the SWG. If I got an efficient pump, then had to run it on the energy hog setting, I'd be hot about it.

 

[Mdragger88]

I always worry about smaller 2 speed pumps not having enough flow on the low speed for the SWG. If I got an efficient pump, then had to run it on the energy hog setting, I'd be hot about it.

I agree! I think low speed of a 2hp might be ok but I would definitely check with manufacturer about the rpm of low speed before pulling the trigger.

 

[Brian.O1484]

@Mdragger88 @Newdude I know I’ll probably say it 100 times as this thread progresses but thank you for all the info!
I don’t want to say we are pinching pennies for the budget, Ideally we wanted to stay below $25k as we are already spending about $5k running service to the garage early fall; which includes the electrical to the pool/patio ect. That $25k or less number is for everything in regard to the pool, electrical-wise it’s anything further than the twist lock outlet as that’s in the plans for the garage service project.

I don’t mind spending a little extra for a better pump or 2hp but I don’t think a 3hp would be in the cards for this year as the prices I’m seeing on the 3s are almost double

Will look at that site for the SWG, I plan on installing all that stuff along with the plumbing and electrical. As far as the electrical I know my way around that with the bonding, ect. One of my friends is licensed and has no problem helping if I need questions answered, safety first on that ! Really the only thing I want no parts in is installing the pool , for $2300 I don’t mind that for install, and that might even be a little cheaper if I’m doing all the plumbing.

For pump brands I would think Hayward is at that top? Just kinda assuming that since that’s usually the first I see when searching. And is there really a difference between a pump that’s listed as an in ground pool pump? Allot of the bigger pumps I see are listed as an in ground pump.

 

[Newdude]

For pump brands I would think Hayward is at that top?

Hayward, Pentair and Jandy are 'the big 3' flagship brands

Calimar / Dohneys/ Blue torrent / black and decker / waterway are some of the generic brands that work just as well for most people.

And is there really a difference between a pump that’s listed as an in ground pool pump?

In ground pumps are self priming because the water is typically below the pump. Above ground pumps are gravity fed and don't need the extra oomph.

I don’t mind spending a little extra for a better pump or 2hp but I don’t think a 3hp would be in the cards for this year as the prices I’m seeing on the 3s are almost double

Look for a variable speed pump instead of a 2 speed. That way, you adjust to find the sweet spot and you aren't locked into one low speed which may be too low for your needs.

The Calimar 1.5 HP is variable speed and i like it better than any 2 speed pumps. The 3HP Calimar is only $74 more so it's kinda silly to pinch pennies there. Is it ridiculous overkill for an above ground pool ? You betcha. But for $519 it's almost ridiculous *not* to overkill the snot out of it.

 

[Brian.O1484]

In ground pumps are self priming because the water is typically below the pump. Above ground pumps are gravity fed and don't need the extra oomph.

Ok so using an in ground for above ground is not a problem but the other way around would be I'm guessing since it's above the surface of the water. Your right that claimer isn't a bad price at all! Now when you get up into the higher power range do you need to have more than one skimmer to supply the pump or is the one good?

And as far as reputable online venders for these components anywhere that you guys recommend?

 

[Mdragger88]

Ok so using an in ground for above ground is not a problem but the other way around would be I'm guessing since it's above the surface of the water. Your right that claimer isn't a bad price at all! Now when you get up into the higher power range do you need to have more than one skimmer to supply the pump or is the one good?

And as far as reputable online venders for these components anywhere that you guys recommend?

One skimmer is fine.
For the calimar pump - pool supply unlimited .com is the place. They are a texas based company that does answer the phone when you call.
Get the extra warranty to sure your bets.
They sell calimar and other name brand swcg’s there too. The calimar swcg’s are a hayward aquarite clone that has a shorter hour rating lifespan (7-8k hrs vs 8-10k hrs for others) but for the price you can upsize and run it on a low % to negate that issue.