It's always a crud shoot if any of it sat on a shelf while changing hands from Taylor to the reseller and possibly a 2nd reseller.
This time worked great. That's all that matters today.
POOLNerd vs. pool retailer - who's test is more accurate?
- Thread starter P00LNerd
- Start date
This time worked great. That's all that matters today.
Just ran out and tried to grab a photo or two, but realized I really need a ladder to get above the slope that is our back yard. Here's what I was able to do, standing on my tip toes.
Made the second one square format, thinking it might make a decent avatar.
Made the second one square format, thinking it might make a decent avatar.
Saturn94
Bronze Supporter
- Mar 11, 2015
- 1,864
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- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
It seems more unusual these days to see reagents (or anything really) available from Amazon (not Amazon merchant). Over the years Amazon has offered less, instead relying on merchants instead.
I’m glad it worked out for you.
CreedenceTapes
Gold Supporter
There's a cool-factor there that would be hard to find a substitute for. I've lived in a few places — 1880s — that I just thought were old. Your place has recalibrated my meter.
My family settled this area (New Hope / Bucks County PA) starting in the late 1600's, but really heavily in the early 1700's. Lots of old houses in the family, when I was a kid growing up, all last owned by my grandparent's generation and subsequently sold off. One had been in the family since at least 1692, but sold when I was in college in the 1990's. Several have revolutionary ties, being used as temporary headquarters by both G. Washington and Gen. Lord Stirling. So, I guess I've always lived in old houses, this one probably being the third oldest among them (1692, 1720, 1734).
But I used to work in Europe, where the age of some buildings just make my head spin. The Cock, just up the street from the Bull in Stratford upon Avon, is an inn and hotel very roughly 1000 years old. I've stayed there, and their plumbing and mold problems are both horrendous, but worth it to stay in a 1000 year old hotel.
Anyway... pool stuff: Tested Alkalinity this morning, using the "keep going until it stops turning redder", aided by my new whiz-bang SpeedStir. It took 16 drops to stop getting very noticeably redder with each drop, so 150 ppm. That's obviously higher than target, as I was measuring wrong before, looking for first change from green to red (per the instructions in Taylor's box!!!). I'm not sure why instructions here seem to disagree with what Taylor printed on the card in the box, but I'll believe you good folks, and say my Alkalinity is high. Not sure what the impact of that is, or how to deal with it, as I've never had to research high Alkalinity before.
pH continues to measure low, despite adding many pounds of pH up, at the rate of 3/4 to 1-1/2 pounds per day over the last several days. It seems to hold 7.2, no matter how much pH up I add. When the new K-2006 kit arrives, I won't be surprised if it tells me my pH is high, I'm beginning to doubt the reagents in the old kit.
Just for completeness, CYA is 55 (according to last pool store test), and FC was running 2-3 ppm this morning, with TC just a hair (2.5 - 3.5 ppm?) above that. I'm targeting FC = 4, as Frog and the store folks keep saying I should target half the rate of normal pools, thanks to the Mineral Pac.
Oh, and I got clarification on some things from the lead chemist at the store. This guy loves to geek out on all the chemistry talk, and in fact is a reader of this forum (Hi Brian!). He said, yes... the algicide they sell me is almost entirely copper. The primary "mineral" in the Frog Mineral Pac is silver, and that yes... most of it goes into the water in just the first few weeks on a new "pac", and then it tapers after that. It's designed to last 6 months, but that does not mean dispersal into the water is linear over that 6 months, it front-loads and then holds. All that meaning, when they say target half "normal" FC, that should hold for any season that was started with a fresh Mineral Pac. He said 11% max FC, is all I should need, at present CYA = 55 ppm.
reggiehammond
Gold Supporter
- Oct 4, 2020
- 2,252
- Pool Size
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- Plaster
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- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Basically - you can follow TFP methods or you can follow other methods. You can't do both.
You really need to decide what you want to do. Adding copper and silver, keeping FC at minimum of FC/CYA Levels...
Man... you're going to have issues.
You really need to decide what you want to do. Adding copper and silver, keeping FC at minimum of FC/CYA Levels...
Man... you're going to have issues.
And copper and silver don't degrade.
They only lower with rain overflow if you don't drain on purpose. So 6 months later you're mostly where you were after the last mineral pack emptied and add more blindly. If you were supposed to maintain a level, that would be one thing. But this is just adding more and more until you stain the pool and it's swimmers.
When you finally quit, 2 new people looking for magic take your place.
Does it shield the sun ? If no, you target full FC.
You will be aided in algae control because of the frog, but TFP-ers have no algae. Our fight is 100% with the sun.
The frog isn't a tent, so it means nothing to us.
Follow the pool store or follow TFP. Inventing rules by mixing different methods just means when you have inevitable problems you will be on your own. We will tell you the problem is that you are running too low FC, pool store will tell you to dump in more copper.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m sure I’m one of very many on this forum that will tell you that my pool is crystal clear following the folks here (TFP). I can’t remember the last time I put anything in my pool other than chlorine, muriatic acid and stabilizer (cya). The only problem I’ve had is at pool opening and that’s not really a problem because all I do is add liquid chlorine at a high level (SLAM) for a couple days and I’m good to go. Oh, I also add salt for the salt water chlorine generator.
No trips to the store. No second guessing my test results. No chemicals other than the minimum necessary. Saving money. Advice as needed right on my computer. People enjoying my pool.
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reggiehammond
Gold Supporter
- Oct 4, 2020
- 2,252
- Pool Size
- 30000
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- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Follow TFP methods and you can get rid of all these unnecessary chemicals and magic potions you shared in another thread...
www.troublefreepool.com
Chlorine storage near iron pipes
We have an outside accessible storage room/closet that I store my pool chemicals in. It says cool and dry. I do have a bathroom style fart fan in there, that I do run from time to time. The room was added on to an existing structure, as as such, what used to be outside natural gas lines that...
www.troublefreepool.com
- Jun 1, 2018
- 15,974
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
The frog is trichlor- which is acidic & keeps your driving your ph down. If you weren’t adding soda your ta would probably be quite low.
Regardless of the presence or absence of “minerals” you should maintain proper fc levels (above minimum for your cya) to ensure your pool is not only clear but also sanitary. While the copper & silver may be keeping the water clear, but clear water doesn’t automatically equal sanitary.
FC/CYA Levels
If you remove the trichlor & just manually dose with liquid chlorine you will be able to get off the ph/ta soda/soda ash merry go round.
Here’s a good read
www.troublefreepool.com
Regardless of the presence or absence of “minerals” you should maintain proper fc levels (above minimum for your cya) to ensure your pool is not only clear but also sanitary. While the copper & silver may be keeping the water clear, but clear water doesn’t automatically equal sanitary.
FC/CYA Levels
If you remove the trichlor & just manually dose with liquid chlorine you will be able to get off the ph/ta soda/soda ash merry go round.
Here’s a good read
Alternative sanitizers and "chemical free" pools--The Truth!
Pool owners frequently seek out "Chemical Free" alternatives to pool water sanitization. Many claims in favor of these systems and methods have been made (usually by the manufacturers of such systems) often without adequate scientific proof of their efficacy. Let's take a look at them and see...
www.troublefreepool.com
As already stated, the above advice is from the pool store, and came to them from Frog. My last water test showed CYA = 55 ppm, and based on this they recommended keeping FC = 1.9 - 3.0, based on this "elevated" CYA level.
Not sure why you would think I'm going to start having issues, when I haven't ever had any before. I said it before, we have never lost a single day to water quality issues, the pool is always 100% crystal clear, even the day we opened after winter.
Last summer, I held the water at FC 0.5 - 2.0 ppm the entire summer, with water at 87 - 90F, as those were the instructions I was given from the installers. I guess you guys think I should have had issues, but I did not. Maybe the "potions" I was dumping saved me? I don't know.
Many on this site seem to be totally focused on the cost of chemicals, and that's fine, if that's your thing. I really don't care much about the cost of whatever I'm dumping in the pool, it isn't enough expense to really even cross my mind, in comparison to the cost of a pool and heating, against our short season. My priorities are never missing a good day's usage, and maximizing the longevity of equipment and liner, just for the shear hassle and time lost to replacement. Favor lost time over lost money, every time.
As to copper and silver, I'm not sure I'm all that worried about trace amounts of either in my pool water. We eat off of silver, and drink out of water that sits in copper pipes every day. Heck, I spent a few decades chewing on silver tooth fillings, so having a bit of it in the pool hardly seems like an enormous concern.
Yep, been doing that since the CYA hit 55 ppm. The tablet canister will only be used in the sanitizer during travel weeks, at least as long as CYA remains above target.
I honestly like the sanitizer, just let it do its thing and bump it up or down a bit here and there, as needed to keep target FC level. If it weren't for the CYA issue reported in another thread, I'd have never even sought out this site, as things have been going well. Of course, coming here helped me resolve some testing accuracy issues, so I'm glad for that.
I need to research salt chlorine generators, for a possible change out next winter. I like the automatic sanitizers, but want to get away from uncontrolled CYA creep, since water change-out is not a practical solution for us here.
- Jun 1, 2018
- 15,974
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Swcg is the way to go- make the chlorine in your back yard! No method is completely hands off but feeding your pool via a swcg doesn’t take much time at all compared to time spent aquiring & adding other forms of chlorine.
When you’re shopping you want to look for one rated for at least 2x’s your pool’s volume. The less you need to run it the longer it will last before needing a replacement cell.
I should start another thread, or glom onto probably one of many already here, but I have some questions about the corrosive nature of salt. I'm guessing 90% of what I've read there is marketing BS, as Chlorine itself is quite corrosive, but still some concerns I want to satisfy. Will seek out or start a new thread for that.
Are you under the impression that Chlorine is free? Or good for your health?Follow TFP methods and you can get rid of all these unnecessary chemicals and magic potions you shared in another thread...
Chlorine storage near iron pipes
We have an outside accessible storage room/closet that I store my pool chemicals in. It says cool and dry. I do have a bathroom style fart fan in there, that I do run from time to time. The room was added on to an existing structure, as as such, what used to be outside natural gas lines that...
I don't really care enough to do the math on it, as I literally spend more on my coffee or beer. But if I add just one 24 oz. dose of algea preventer and just one silver-laden Frog Mineral Pac at the beginning of the season, and then 5 oz. of scale and stain preventer per week, it's possible that's even less costly or less of a health concern, than doubling my chlorine requirement by ditching the Frog. Maybe?
Seems to me, it's likely six of one versus a half dozen of the other... pick your poison. If it weren't for the CYA issue, I'd probably just live with the Frog forever, seems way easier than anything else. Really, CYA is it's only fatal flaw, as far as my experience with it goes.
The focus of everyone on this site is to have the best water quality possible. That this is achieved not with overpriced products sold by putting unfounded fear in the minds of the uneducated but instead with the simplest and a fairly cost effective process is a benefit, but rarely the goal. After all, what intelligent person would pay more for inferior results?
Is not your goal also to have the best water quality possible?
Saturn94
Bronze Supporter
- Mar 11, 2015
- 1,864
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
20 years here with a SWCG….no corrosion issues.
Based on my experience, I would not have a pool without a SWCG.
I’m not sure what that even means. My goal is to have the maximum number of useable swim days, while minimizing time spent on maintenance.
Is doubling my chlorine requirement, in the name of eliminating a once per season algae preventer and a Mineral PAC containing silver really “best”? Says who? And why? Chlorine is corrosive, difficult to store, takes up a lot more space… why would I want to double all that?
How do you even measure “best”? My water is crystal clear, always has been, despite the assertion of some here that I (and anyone following my pool store’s advice) am doing everything wrong.
Again, if not for the climbing CYA problem, I’d think the Frog was the perfect solution for me and my pool. If they ever come out with a CYA-free chlorine tablet, it’d be a much better system.
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Cool. Definitely doing some research on this next winter, and probably changing out for that. Thankfully I already re-plumbed my sanitizer on its own pair of unions, for easy change-out.20 years here with a SWCG….no corrosion issues.
Based on my experience, I would not have a pool without a SWCG.
Well, I have had a Frog and I have followed TFPC. I know which one is better. You have never followed TFPC, so you have no way of knowing whether your water clarity and comfort is inferior to it.
As for your "facts" about chlorine, well I applaud King Technology for creating a market for their product. Only through convincing people that chlorine is icky and halving it in the water is beneficial can they sell their products.