POOLNerd vs. pool retailer - who's test is more accurate?

[CreedenceTapes]

Again, if not for the climbing CYA problem, I’d think the Frog was the perfect solution for me and my pool.

That's a dispositive "if". Not just with Frog, but with any sanitizer that uses dichlor or trichlor. There are few things more convenient than having Amazon deliver a bucket of chlorine tablets and dropping a few of them in any decent feeder every week or so. It works great... until your chlorine is overwhelmed by CYA. Then you come to the realization that solid chlorine sanitizers cause more trouble in the long run than they save in the short.

It looks like the Frog minerals include calcium carbonate, by the way. I'm sure you know, that's the chief component of scale.

 

[Mdragger88]

There is cal hypo- requires a different feeder that has never been used for anything else & it creates another problem- high calcium eventually.
The best long term chlorinating solution to prevent unwanted buildup of other chemicals is liquid chlorine or a saltwater chlorine generator & simply controlling the other parameters of the water separately.
By the way - maintaining a higher fc level is pretty much a one time add so long as your daily fc consumption stays the same. It’s not doubling the amount of chlorine you need to purchase on an ongoing basis.

 

[Newdude]

My water is crystal clear, always has been, despite the assertion of some here that I (and anyone following my pool store’s advice) am doing everything wrong.

Their methods are our largest source of new members.

You have to keep in mind, we have close to 20 years of members who tried making the frog work. It goes south eventually, with literal thousands of reports. Maybe tens if thousands. The last time I saw the counter we had 2.5 million posts here and that was a while back. Certain themes repeat often, and Frog definitely comes up its fair share.

It's up to you if you listen to the collective wisdom, or defy it thinking you'll be the one who finally figures it all out.

 

[P00LNerd]

Well, I have had a Frog and I have followed TFPC. I know which one is better. You have never followed TFPC, so you have no way of knowing whether your water clarity and comfort is inferior to it.

Well, let's not pretend I haven't visited and swam in many dozens of different swimming pools in my lifetime. I'm not blind to water clarity.

That's a dispositive "if". Not just with Frog, but with any sanitizer that uses dichlor or trichlor. There are few things more convenient than having Amazon deliver a bucket of chlorine tablets and dropping a few of them in any decent feeder every week or so. It works great... until your chlorine is overwhelmed by CYA. Then you come to the realization that solid chlorine sanitizers cause more trouble in the long run than they save in the short.

Yep. I totally understand that. I'm not arguing Frog is the perfect system, just refuting the false notion that it can't get me through this season. The CYA problem is real.

But I really don't see any emergency, to shut down the pool now and make a change. We only get a few really hot weeks here, and we are just at the beginning of that season now. I'm not losing any of that time to making a system change now.

It looks like the Frog minerals include calcium carbonate, by the way. I'm sure you know, that's the chief component of scale.

Good to know. I guess that's why my pool store has me adding a few ounces of stain and scale remover every week. So far, no problem, but I can see how it could be an issue on a years-long time scale.

Their methods are our largest source of new members.

You have to keep in mind, we have close to 20 years of members who tried making the frog work. It goes south eventually, with literal thousands of reports. Maybe tens if thousands. The last time I saw the counter we had 2.5 million posts here and that was a while back. Certain themes repeat often, and Frog definitely comes up its fair share.

I'd be willing to bet there are inept users of every system on earth. I'm an engineer, and have spent my life in product design and manufacturing. User ineptitude is always a major consideration in every design, as there will always be those unable to follow simple instructions.

I've been using the Frog for a year now, in very warm water (87 - 90F), with no water clarity problems. I've had issues with CYA climb and getting water test data as accurate as I would like, but never with water clarity.

t's up to you if you listen to the collective wisdom, or defy it thinking you'll be the one who finally figures it all out.

I'm not trying to defy anything. I've already said probably a dozen times, that I will manually dose with chlorine as much as I can this summer, and look at switching to SWGC while shut down next winter. But I do take issue with the implication that the Frog can't get me trough a few weeks of being away from the pool this summer, or that continuing to follow my pool store's instructions for the rest of this summer is going to cause me "issues", as reggie said in an earlier post. I think I'll get through this season just fine, as I did last season.

 

[Donldson]

Well, let's not pretend I haven't visited and swam in many dozens of different swimming pools in my lifetime. I'm not blind to water clarity.

I'm pretty sure I said you cannot compare to a TFPC pool, yes? Or did I pretend that too?

Ok, I think you've made my point for me. Best of luck with your water.

 

[P00LNerd]

Ok, I think you've made my point for me. Best of luck with your water.

Interesting sense of hospitality, among a few select supporters and experts on this site. Mostly friendly and helpful people, but a few who definitely sure throw a lot of attitude toward anyone questioning the dogma, even a little bit.

I've already said many times that I will be looking into conversion to SWCG. Just trying to get thru this season with what I have installed today. So sorry if that's a problem for anyone here, but I really don't care.

Hopefully you treat the next guy better.

 

[CreedenceTapes]

Well, let's not pretend I haven't visited and swam in many dozens of different swimming pools in my lifetime. I'm not blind to water clarity.


Yep. I totally understand that. I'm not arguing Frog is the perfect system, just refuting the false notion that it can't get me through this season. The CYA problem is real.

But I really don't see any emergency, to shut down the pool now and make a change. We only get a few really hot weeks here, and we are just at the beginning of that season now. I'm not losing any of that time to making a system change now.


Good to know. I guess that's why my pool store has me adding a few ounces of stain and scale remover every week. So far, no problem, but I can see how it could be an issue on a years-long time scale.


I'd be willing to bet there are inept users of every system on earth. I'm an engineer, and have spent my life in product design and manufacturing. User ineptitude is always a major consideration in every design, as there will always be those unable to follow simple instructions.

I've been using the Frog for a year now, in very warm water (87 - 90F), with no water clarity problems. I've had issues with CYA climb and getting water test data as accurate as I would like, but never with water clarity.


I'm not trying to defy anything. I've already said probably a dozen times, that I will manually dose with chlorine as much as I can this summer, and look at switching to SWGC while shut down next winter. But I do take issue with the implication that the Frog can't get me trough a few weeks of being away from the pool this summer, or that continuing to follow my pool store's instructions for the rest of this summer is going to cause me "issues", as reggie said in an earlier post. I think I'll get through this season just fine, as I did last season.

Do yourself a favor to maximize your odds of a successful season: Keep your FC:CYA ratio at the recommended levels. I wouldn't be wild about adding calcium carbonate to my water, but the silver is not likely to hurt anything. But the main thing — as has been browbeaten into you now — is that FC:CYA equilibrium. Keep that where it needs to be, and you should be fine.

 

[reggiehammond]

Interesting sense of hospitality, among a few select supporters and experts on this site. Mostly friendly and helpful people, but a few who definitely sure throw a lot of attitude toward anyone questioning the dogma, even a little bit.

I've already said many times that I will be looking into conversion to SWCG. Just trying to get thru this season with what I have installed today. So sorry if that's a problem for anyone here, but I really don't care.

Hopefully you treat the next guy better.

TFP exists to teach the TFP method. It's a proven method, and it produces results.
This site helps thousands of people, each year, who are in a mess because of pool industry BS.

The goal is to understand how to maintain the best quality water; not to debate about the myriad of magic potions the pool industry has developed to sell to unwitting folks. The honest truth is that pool care is deceptively simple, and TFP will be around to try to show people the way.

This thread is now 6 pages long, not because we're trying to poke you in the eye, but mostly to encourage you to stop thinking that you're smarter than the tried-and-true methods we know will work.

 

[proavia]

I’m not sure what that even means. My goal is to have the maximum number of useable swim days, while minimizing time spent on maintenance.

Is doubling my chlorine requirement, in the name of eliminating a once per season algae preventer and a Mineral PAC containing silver really “best”? Says who? And why? Chlorine is corrosive, difficult to store, takes up a lot more space… why would I want to double all that?

How do you even measure “best”? My water is crystal clear, always has been, despite the assertion of some here that I (and anyone following my pool store’s advice) am doing everything wrong.

Again, if not for the climbing CYA problem, I’d think the Frog was the perfect solution for me and my pool. If they ever come out with a CYA-free chlorine tablet, it’d be a much better system.

You don't know what you don't know.

Many here have had the frog system and it eventually causes the issues mentioned.
Before I had my SWG, I spent 5 minutes (max) every other day checking the skimmer and testing FC & pH - added according to TFP recommended levels - and maybe 20 minutes once a week brushing and doing more detailed testing if needed.
Now, with a SWG, I spend 5 minutes once a week and 20 minutes once weekly.
It's really THAT easy. My pool is Gin clear 99.9% of the time using TFP methods. The other 0.1% I know exactly what to do, thanks to the fine folks here. Simple.

No pool is maintenance free - but it can be trouble free (if you allow it to be).
Here's some inspiration - How Clear is TFP Clear?

 

[Newdude]

As to copper and silver, I'm not sure I'm all that worried about trace amounts of either in my pool water. We eat off of silver, and drink out of water that sits in copper pipes every day. Heck, I spent a few decades chewing on silver tooth fillings, so having a bit of it in the pool hardly seems like an enormous concern.

They're safe for you. That's not the problem. The problem is staining and if that threshold is crossed, they may or may not be able to be lifted by a PITA process.

Or you sit on the fence and need to repeatedly add sequesterants to keep the metals in solution.

You've totally grasped that there is an easy alternative to needing the algae control which will eventually cause staining. Why would you risk if this mineral pack is the one that pushes you above the staining threshold ? Maybe one more won't matter, maybe it does, but what are you gaining by risking it ?

The need for sequesterants doenst stop when you stop adding more minerals if you cross the staining threshold.

 

[P00LNerd]

Do yourself a favor to maximize your odds of a successful season: Keep your FC:CYA ratio at the recommended levels. I wouldn't be wild about adding calcium carbonate to my water, but the silver is not likely to hurt anything. But the main thing — as has been browbeaten into you now — is that FC:CYA equilibrium. Keep that where it needs to be, and you should be fine.

I am, and always have. But the “recommended level” printed on my water test reports from my pool store work out to 3.5% to 5.5% of CYA. It’s the same level at which they keep their half dozen demo pools, and they report no trouble… thanks to a bit of Silver and calcium carbonate.

I know the goal, which is to get onto SWCG and TFP. We’ll get there, but I’m not missing one of our very few weeks of “pool weather”, just to make the change this summer. Between a week of mid-summer vacation and a week of business travel, I get about 3 -5 weeks of reliable weather in the 80’s. We still swim select days in the 70’s, and will get random days in the 80’s right into September… but not many. It’s really only late June - mid-August that we can count on being able to use the pool almost everyday.

 

[pb4uswim]

It makes sense that you would convert at a time that doesn’t eat into a short swimming season. There might be some “risk” in waiting, but there’s always risks. During this season, get your test kit and get good at testing. Do you research in what it would take to get a salt water generator and anything else you need to do the conversion.

 

[Newdude]

Switching to solely liquid chlorine wouldn't lose any swimming whatsoever.

Switching to SWG would take you out for the better part of an afternoon, not a week. And everyone could swim while you installed it. Or if you hired someone, you could swim to while they installed it.

Losing a week is a lame excuse. Sorry not sorry.

 

[reggiehammond]

I am, and always have. But the “recommended level” printed on my water test reports from my pool store work out to 3.5% to 5.5% of CYA. It’s the same level at which they keep their half dozen demo pools, and they report no trouble… thanks to a bit of Silver and calcium carbonate.

What if, and go with me here, the recommended levels from the pool store, and the pool stores ultimate motive to sell you more stuff, is not in your best interest? That's what we're trying to tell you. The industry is flat out wrong on most aspects of pool care.