With a floating weir, you get several inches of leeway for high or low, so it definitely saves water.
Pool builder didn’t install any skimmers - what to do?
- Thread starter Carey2023
- Start date
That works with a surge tank or a floating weir, but not with a fixed weir.
$1300 would buy 4 solar skimmers. They have a terrible lifespan these days, but if they lasted 6 months each, thats 8 years worth with such short seasons in Ontario. Maybe by then they last longer.
Oh yeah. It usually works for me. But when I let it go out of range, Murphy's. Every last time.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Here's yet another idea. The auto-leveler I have connects to my pool via an equalizer pipe. That pipe enters the pool a few feet below the surface. It uses the principle of "water seeks its own level." The auto-filler valve and the overflow outlet are in a separate well, which connects to the pool via this equalizer pipe. But the auto-leveler well does not have to be near the pool. It can be up to 30' away. Which means this auto-leveler well could be installed at the pad, and connected to the pool via one of the pipes that runs to one of the basins. That's if each basin is independently home-run back to the pad.
I'd have to analyze a plumbing schematic, but it's possible one basin and its connecting pipe could be used for auto-leveling, and the other basin could be setup to be the skimmer. There would be no need to bust out concrete or trench any additional plumbing.
@Carey2023, sorry, this morning you're getting a flurry of info. Some science, some ribbing, some potential solutions, some side discussions. Wade through it as best you can, but there may be some actual low cost, low impact solutions buried in here somewhere!
I'd have to analyze a plumbing schematic, but it's possible one basin and its connecting pipe could be used for auto-leveling, and the other basin could be setup to be the skimmer. There would be no need to bust out concrete or trench any additional plumbing.
@Carey2023, sorry, this morning you're getting a flurry of info. Some science, some ribbing, some potential solutions, some side discussions. Wade through it as best you can, but there may be some actual low cost, low impact solutions buried in here somewhere!
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I think it could work with a fixed weir, if the auto-fill level and overflow level were set within 1/4" of each other, within the 1/2" you spec'd to make the weir basins work like skimmers. See what I mean? Set the auto-fill level at, say, 1/4"-3/8" above the bottom of the weir opening, and the overflow level at 5/8". My auto-leveler could maintain those levels. One basin would be converted to be used with the auto-leveler, the other basin could get a custom basket and become the skimmer.
This would be contingent on the weir basins being independently home-run back to the pad. But if they are, that could be a viable solution, with no concrete or trenching work. I'm talking about this guy:
POOLMISER Instructions — POOLMISER
www.poolmiser.com
Right, but that wastes a lot of water as rain is drained off immediately vs. being allowed to remain and offset the evaporation.
For example, if you have the water high and you get a lot of evaporation and you lose 3" and then it rains 3", you never have to add or remove water.
Also, the flow has to be kept at a specific rate.
If you need to go from maybe 20 gpm to 100 gpm, it won't work without a surge tank unless you keep the water high enough for the 100 GPM flow, but then your skimming action is weak at lower flow rates.
If you need to go from maybe 20 gpm to 100 gpm, it won't work without a surge tank unless you keep the water high enough for the 100 GPM flow, but then your skimming action is weak at lower flow rates.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Yes, yes, but that's not the problem were working on here. It's getting the OP's basins to work like skimmers without having to demolish her pool. The "wasted rainwater" problem your siting was built into this pool, it was going to be their problem anyway. The two missing skimmers each had over flow outlets. That excess rain water was going to get dumped out of their pool anyway. This pool was not designed to make use of rain water the way you're describing, so it's a non issue in terms of the OP's pool.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The IntelliLevel might also be a solution to convert the basins into skimmers. But wouldn't have any overflow solution. That's another problem that the missing skimmers has created, that we haven't really addressed yet. Maintaining the minimum water level is one problem, but the missing skimmers had the overflow outlets, so now their pool has no overflow outlets! In addition to maintaining the proper level constantly, the OP is now also going to have to deal with overflow every time it rains, which might be a considerable chore where she lives.
Which is another reason to get the original skimmers installed. But my PoolMiser solution might solve this, if the existing plumbing is configured for its easy installation.
Which is another reason to get the original skimmers installed. But my PoolMiser solution might solve this, if the existing plumbing is configured for its easy installation.
I agree the original design will work using higher flows than normal for a residential pool to achieve good skimming. As previously suggested, the turnover rate will drop to about 1 hour or less to get actual skimming with the original design, rather than a simple overflow.
I agree a water level device is critical to this pool to make it work at its optimum. The equaliser pipe as original, is similar to the balance tank bypass pipes installed in the late 1960's before flow switches became popular.
An overflow will be required and working the existing shell as a skimmer is a bit tricky. It really depends on the contractors skill level locally if they have enough understanding to complete this work.
The other question to ask is would I do it?
If it was here - I might. Making a whole bunch more assumptions.
Is this the best solution?
No, it is a fix-up for a situation. Fit the two skimmers as per the original manufacturer's design, probably add the level control and probably use the high flow rate to get good skimming action.
I agree a water level device is critical to this pool to make it work at its optimum. The equaliser pipe as original, is similar to the balance tank bypass pipes installed in the late 1960's before flow switches became popular.
An overflow will be required and working the existing shell as a skimmer is a bit tricky. It really depends on the contractors skill level locally if they have enough understanding to complete this work.
The other question to ask is would I do it?
If it was here - I might. Making a whole bunch more assumptions.
Is this the best solution?
No, it is a fix-up for a situation. Fit the two skimmers as per the original manufacturer's design, probably add the level control and probably use the high flow rate to get good skimming action.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
^^^This. Based only on my hair-brained suspicions, I think this is what is going to be needed to get the pool to function as well as it is ever going to be capable of. Anything else might get close, or not so close, or might not work at all.
Otherwise, @Carey2023, you might find yourself fretting over and checking the water level and the cleanliness every day, and either adding water, draining water, skimming leaves or vacuuming the bottom, almost every day.
And just to offer a little perspective, I set out to have gizmos installed for the express purpose of minimizing maintenance. I check my chemistry once a week. I sometimes have to adjust settings after testing, and much less often need to add a bit of chlorine. Most times I don't do anything but empty the skimmer basket, sometimes the pump basket, almost never more than once a week. 12 times a year I add a full dose of chlorine (in the winter months). Once a year I clean the filter. That's it. On average, 10 minutes a week.
I never think about water level. I never think about vacuuming. I sometimes brush the steps off.
I don't share this to rub it in, I just know myself. If I had to go out every day to mess with the water level or g-forbid vacuum my pool or strain leaves, I'd grow to hate my pool. That's not what I'd like to see here for you, Carey. You should press the builder to make the pool whole. Pool ownership is bad enough when the pool is working great. My advice is to bite the bullet and put up with some extra construction now, while the builder is still alive, in business and solvent. Otherwise, I predict you'll be cursing him almost daily, for the next few decades.
Last edited:
Hey, just tuned back in after a couple of days off and I’m not ashamed to admit a little overwhelmed by a lot information. I‘m going to have to print a bunch of this out and take a closer look at some of the technical info. Based on one read through without going to back to look up things I didn’t understand, I think David and Dirk above are about where I am. Having a pool is very zen-like for me. I can get in and simply leisurely swim from one end to the other for hours where for most things I get bored and restless after 15 minutes. If I had to monitor the pool this intensely it would quickly become a burden not a joy.
Skimming isn’t the biggest problem with the pool although the lack of skimmers do create my biggest concerns. First concern is those stupid basins running dry. The autofiller sounds like it might provide some relief from that. As I mentioned, we have a pool consultant coming on Monday and I’m going to mention this to him and see if he feels that it could be added without tearing up a lot of concrete. This might also solve concern number 2 which is having stagnant water in those basins which leads to algae or bacterial growth. It is a chlorine pool with an offline chlorine feeder that worked off and on this fall. I believe we did get a small amount of algae in the basin during a two week off period for the chlorine feeder. If the autofiller is possible, then I can keep the drains in the basin on full-time and hopefully that will provide enough water circulation to keep away any algae growth as long as I can keep the chlorine running.
At the moment, this seems like the best solution. Although I‘m not 100% convinced that the benefit is worth the risk especially since it feels like this pool design is a bit flawed even if it was constructed properly. In my defence, I didn’t look into how this pool worked until after I found out that we didn’t have any skimmers. I lean more into installing the skimmers because of something @Bperry said about selling the house. This is not in our immediate plans but having a pool with these types of unique issues might significantly impact our ability to sell in the future.
My feeling is that either we install both skimmers or none. I don’t think putting one in would solve any problem but the vacuuming and would have all the same risks of installing both. Since the contract says one, I’m sure our builder will argue with this but his negligence caused this problem in the first place so we‘d definitely try to negotiate. The autofiller sounds like an almost must-do either way. If that water level can be automatically regulated and I never have to worry about the basins running dry then that’s about 90% of my problems and concerns eliminated.
I‘m going to go back over some of the more technical information here and then present some of it to the pool consultant. If we have a few strategies/options going forward it might be easier to negotiate with the builder especially if there are some really expensive options that make installing the two skimmers seem the most reasonable. Thanks again, this has been a tremendous help. I was initially adamantly against doing anything that disturbed the concrete but now I see that getting the pool to comply with the manufacturer’s design might be the best option.
Skimming isn’t the biggest problem with the pool although the lack of skimmers do create my biggest concerns. First concern is those stupid basins running dry. The autofiller sounds like it might provide some relief from that. As I mentioned, we have a pool consultant coming on Monday and I’m going to mention this to him and see if he feels that it could be added without tearing up a lot of concrete. This might also solve concern number 2 which is having stagnant water in those basins which leads to algae or bacterial growth. It is a chlorine pool with an offline chlorine feeder that worked off and on this fall. I believe we did get a small amount of algae in the basin during a two week off period for the chlorine feeder. If the autofiller is possible, then I can keep the drains in the basin on full-time and hopefully that will provide enough water circulation to keep away any algae growth as long as I can keep the chlorine running.
At the moment, this seems like the best solution. Although I‘m not 100% convinced that the benefit is worth the risk especially since it feels like this pool design is a bit flawed even if it was constructed properly. In my defence, I didn’t look into how this pool worked until after I found out that we didn’t have any skimmers. I lean more into installing the skimmers because of something @Bperry said about selling the house. This is not in our immediate plans but having a pool with these types of unique issues might significantly impact our ability to sell in the future.
My feeling is that either we install both skimmers or none. I don’t think putting one in would solve any problem but the vacuuming and would have all the same risks of installing both. Since the contract says one, I’m sure our builder will argue with this but his negligence caused this problem in the first place so we‘d definitely try to negotiate. The autofiller sounds like an almost must-do either way. If that water level can be automatically regulated and I never have to worry about the basins running dry then that’s about 90% of my problems and concerns eliminated.
I‘m going to go back over some of the more technical information here and then present some of it to the pool consultant. If we have a few strategies/options going forward it might be easier to negotiate with the builder especially if there are some really expensive options that make installing the two skimmers seem the most reasonable. Thanks again, this has been a tremendous help. I was initially adamantly against doing anything that disturbed the concrete but now I see that getting the pool to comply with the manufacturer’s design might be the best option.
We could do a house call
Im sure that will make the skimmers very cheap in comparison.
It's easily explainable that it's a tradeoff to the unique high water level. Have a $300 solar skimmer robot floating around at house showings that's included in the sale. Then have the realtor point out that there really isn't anything to skim anyway.
If the bottom drains aren't able to be shut off, vacuuming won't ever work well. Suction takes the path of least resistance and when you have multiple inlets and one has a long hose and a vac head stuck the floor, the other inlets will take all the suction.
It will and IMO the overflow will be just as necessary. You get the bulk of your annual rain in the spring and summer and if the patio drains to the pool in any way, (probably the area between the house and pool) you'll accumulate even more rain water. At the end of the season, we pretty much break even between rain and evaporation in the Northeast but it isn't balanced in how we get it. We get wet or dry for a week or more at a time. With a traditional skimmer, it has alot more play without adjusting the water level, but I still drained and filled twice each this summer. If I only had 1.5 inches to play with, it would have been several more of each.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
We did throw an awful lot at you, but it sounds like you already have a very good grasp of it all! Good luck with the consultation. Your pursuit of a resolution using us (internet research), an attorney and an onsite consultation by a pool professional is a solid, thorough approach! Good job.
Sorry to add yet another variable, but if going the autofill/overflow route, design it so winterizing is easy.
We don't typically have them up here so winterizing might not be a thought the plumber has when it's being installed in May.
We don't typically have them up here so winterizing might not be a thought the plumber has when it's being installed in May.
I contacted the manufacturer to ask about skimming and they told me to get one of these.
View attachment 542693
Yes. It was so I could only visualize the shape properly and think about how it may work. There is not much use for the consultation as such. It's a first step that would normally take about 2 weeks to draw this type of system up.