Home Contractor building Pool/Spa with new home - question issue?

[essbase]

Hi,

My home contractor is building a pool/spa combo while building the home in Florida. He normally just builds pools but we asked for a basic spa. We were shown pictures of Spas which look similar to all the others being built in our area. We had some specs on paper, size, some equipment, etc. The builder hired a new Pool "Foreman" that is working ours as his first job for the builder. He is not the original person we worked with on the design. They just shot our gunite and we were surprised to see small 1" pipes extending up to through the top of the Gunite from the jets in the wall. It appears to be air control pipes over each jet pipe. Is this an "old school" practice? The Home builder is out of town and we plan to speak with him Monday and would like to understand if this design is something to question since we dont see this on other homes being built with Spas here. Equipment list below. Thanks for the help!

Pool

12 x 27, Depth 3-6 , Sunshelf

Spa

6 x 6, 4 Therapy Jets, Blower 1-1/2 HP, 2 Bubblers

Pool Spa Controller and Salt Generator

520543 EASYTOUCH 4SC-IC40 POOL/SPA CONTROL W/ SCG

Pool/Spa Heater

460833 120K BTU ALMOND ULTRATEMP QUIET HEAT PUMP

Pump

011056 3HP 230V INTELLIFLO VSF VARIABLE SPEED & FLOW PUMP

Remote

522104 SCREENLOGIC2 WIRELESS INTERFACE BUNDLE

Lights

590046 100© COLORCASCADE LED BUBBLER LIGHT ENGINE

580037 COLORVISION BUBBLER GUNITE NICHE KIT

602055 15W 12V 100© GLOBRITE COLOR LED LIGHT

620040 GLOBRITE GUNITE NICHE

Blower

1-1/2 HP

 

[kimkats]

Hi and welcome to TFP. Please share a pic of what you are concerned about so we can fully understand what you are seeing.

 

[essbase]

Hi Kimkats. Here is a picture before and after gunite... THANKS

 

[ajw22]

we were surprised to see small 1" pipes extending up to through the top of the Gunite from the jets in the wall. It appears to be air control pipes over each jet pipe. Is this an "old school" practice?

You need to find out the specific design of the "therapy jets".

Typically those type of air valve and control pipes are used when a blower is not installed and venturi spa jets are used that create bubbles from an open air pipe. The valves can allow the outside air to be sucked through individual jets.

A blower is much more powerful and typically all the jets get air bubbles when the blower is turned on.

Only your builder can explain how the "therapy jets", the air blower, and those air control lines are intended to work.

What type and model filter are you getting?

Consider getting the more modern IntelliCenter instead of the EasyTouch+Screenlogic.

 

[ajw22]

This is the way Jandy recommends plumbing a spa with a blower. It looks nothing like the pic you posted. There should be an upper loop for air and a lower loop for water connected to each jet by a manifold.

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0507900.pdf?force=1

 

[essbase]

You need to find out the specific design of the "therapy jets".

Typically those type of air valve and control pipes are used when a blower is not installed and venturi spa jets are used that create bubbles from an open air pipe. The valves can allow the outside air to be sucked through individual jets.

A blower is much more powerful and typically all the jets get air bubbles when the blower is turned on.

Only your builder can explain how the "therapy jets", the air blower, and those air control lines are intended to work.

What type and model filter are you getting?

Consider getting the more modern IntelliCenter instead of the EasyTouch+Screenlogic.

Thanks ajw22,
There are two air bubblers roughed into the floor. Since a 1-1/2 HP blower is spec'd I guess I assumed it would power the jets and the bubblers. From what I have read a blower that large sounds like more than what you use for 2 floor bubblers. I am afraid another person took over the build and is just doing what he has before without considering what is on paper... But then again, not sure I know enough to ask the right questions. Here is the pool print spec.

 

[ajw22]

The Jandy Installation Guide show separate blowers for bubblers and jets.

What manufacturer and model air blower are you getting?

 

[essbase]

The Jandy Installation Guide show separate blowers for bubblers and jets.

What manufacturer and model air blower are you getting?

There wasn't anything on paper regarding brand of blower or jets.... only what I posted from the pool print. We saw pictures of the Spas the pool builder had done before and none had pipes coming up the wall. The specs and sizing was done by the previous builder/designer. The guy who assumed the role had nothing to do with the Spa design and while he seems to have lots of pool experience, I fear might not have enough recent Spa experience.

 

[ajw22]

You need to have a discussion with your pool builder to understand exactly what they are building and how they intend your spa to work in different modes.

Then you need to decide if that is what you thought you were getting.

Changing the spa jet setup and plumbing after the gunite is done will require major surgery of the spa.

 

[essbase]

You need to have a discussion with your pool builder to understand exactly what they are building and how they intend your spa to work in different modes.

Then you need to decide if that is what you thought you were getting.

Changing the spa jet setup and plumbing after the gunite is done will require major surgery of the spa.

I was wondering if they could just cut out the pvc jet body tube that is there and abandon the vertical air pipe. Then insert a new jet body with the correct air port and patch with cement... The jet bodys (all but 1) were just stuck in place through the backer board when the blew the gunite (no connection to plumbing or each other)

 

[ajw22]

Your spa plumbing look strange and your gunite does not look thick enough.

Here is the way spa plumbing should look with air and water loops...

or this

 

[proavia]

Additionally, find out what exact cartridge filter the PB intends to use. Florida builders notoriously use undersized cartridge filters. You want the largest filter that will fit in the space for the filter on the equiomemt pad - this will provide more time between cleanings. For your pool/spa, a Pentair CCP 320 (320 square feet of filter area) or larger would be better. Hayward and Jandy have similar size cartridge filters.

I see a SWG in your list. Be sure it is sized at least 2 times the pool size. SWG sizes are based on running the cell at 100% for 24 hours a day.

 

[ajw22]

I see a SWG in your list. Be sure it is sized at least 2 times the pool size. SWG sizes are based on running the cell at 100% for 24 hours a day.

520543 EASYTOUCH 4SC-IC40 POOL/SPA CONTROL W/ SCG not going to be a problem for a 12 x 27, Depth 3-6 , Sunshelf pool.

 

[proavia]

520543 EASYTOUCH 4SC-IC40 POOL/SPA CONTROL W/ SCG not going to be a problem for a 12 x 27, Depth 3-6 , Sunshelf pool.

Oops - missed that. IC40 will serve the OP well.

 

[ajw22]

Other equipment issues you may have ....

Your ET as speced has 4 relays. One is dedicated to the filter/pump so you have three others available. Is that adequate or should you be getting an ET 8 that gives you 7 relays?

Will all of your lights be on one switch? Do you want separate control of the pool light, spa lights, bubbles lights? Each light control requires a relay.

If you have two air blowers for your spa jets and spa bubbler then you need 2 relays.

Pentair Globrites have poor reliability and no alternative replacement. You will be stuck spending a few hundred every few years replacing them. Better to use Microbrite lights.

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[essbase]

Other equipment issues you may have ....

Your ET as speced has 4 relays. One is dedicated to the filter/pump so you have three others available. Is that adequate or should you be getting an ET 8 that gives you 7 relays?

Will all of your lights be on one switch? Do you want separate control of the pool light, spa lights, bubbles lights? Each light control requires a relay.

If you have two air blowers for your spa jets and spa bubbler then you need 2 relays.

Pentair Globrites have poor reliability and no alternative replacement. You will be stuck spending a few hundred every few years replacing them. Better to use Microbrite lights.

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for your help and comments!
Since we are using the intelliflow pump will it still use a relay? I thought I read it had one just for the pump.
We only have the one blower in the spec. It would be nice to have the ability to control the lights separately or at least maybe the Spa on one and the Pool/Bubbler on another. I will need to research further to understand. Thanks!

 

[essbase]

Other equipment issues you may have ....

Your ET as speced has 4 relays. One is dedicated to the filter/pump so you have three others available. Is that adequate or should you be getting an ET 8 that gives you 7 relays?

Will all of your lights be on one switch? Do you want separate control of the pool light, spa lights, bubbles lights? Each light control requires a relay.

If you have two air blowers for your spa jets and spa bubbler then you need 2 relays.

Pentair Globrites have poor reliability and no alternative replacement. You will be stuck spending a few hundred every few years replacing them. Better to use Microbrite lights.

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Not sure about swapping lights now... Sounds like the Microbrites are small and require more lights in total. Is it easy for the PB to punch a hole for extra lights? From what I can tell he just shoved PVC conduit through the pool and Spa walls where the lights go. I suppose they chip it out to set the niches in place?? Perhaps punching extra holes through the pool/spa walls is common practice at this stage.
I did see another one in process a few days ago and the spa just had several holes punched through. I thought they woudl just add the jet bodys, plumb it all together and backfill.... All this is new to me. THANKS AGAIN

 

[essbase]

Additionally, find out what exact cartridge filter the PB intends to use. Florida builders notoriously use undersized cartridge filters. You want the largest filter that will fit in the space for the filter on the equiomemt pad - this will provide more time between cleanings. For your pool/spa, a Pentair CCP 320 (320 square feet of filter area) or larger would be better. Hayward and Jandy have similar size cartridge filters.

I see a SWG in your list. Be sure it is sized at least 2 times the pool size. SWG sizes are based on running the cell at 100% for 24 hours a day.

Thanks! I will check on it.

 

[ajw22]

Since we are using the intelliflow pump will it still use a relay?

The first relay is dedicated to the filter/pump circuit regardless of type of pump you have.

We only have the one blower in the spec.

I would rather have a blower on the spa jets then on a bubbler.

It would be nice to have the ability to control the lights separately or at least maybe the Spa on one and the Pool/Bubbler on another.

For each set of lights you want to independently control you need to have the lights connected to its own transformer and relay.

Not sure about swapping lights now... Sounds like the Microbrites are small and require more lights in total.

Color Globrite is 700 lumens, Microbrite is 500 lumens.

Pentair guideline is to aim for 4 lumens per square foot of pool surface. For example, if the pool is 500 sq-ft then you need 500x4=2000 lumens. This would be 4 MicroBrites or 2 IntelliBrite rgb.

Inyo Pools also has a good blog on How Many Lights Do I Need For My Pool? with a table summarizing the coverage of the different Pentair lights.

Jandy has an excellent LED Lighting Design Guide.

Is it easy for the PB to punch a hole for extra lights? From what I can tell he just shoved PVC conduit through the pool and Spa walls where the lights go. I suppose they chip it out to set the niches in place?? Perhaps punching extra holes through the pool/spa walls is common practice at this stage.

The whole way your builder is doing things is strange. Light niches are usually placed during rebar and before gunite and the gunite shot around the light niche. In this pic you can see two light niches at the end of conduit being placed before gunite.

 

[essbase]

Thanks! I will check on it.

Hi Proavia

Looks like they have been installing Proclean 125 - PCCF-125. What are your thoughts on that one? Too small?

THANKS