White Water Mold getting worse during SLAM?

[Angelos]

Hi
Indoor Pool seems to have white water mold ( I think). I have been slamming for a 2 days and it seems to be getting worse in appearance but chlorine loss is going down

Details.
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Pool
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Build Type: Vinyl
Volume: 14200 gallons
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Latest Test Result Summary:
FC: 27.5 (6 hours ago)
CC: 0.5 (2 days ago)
pH: 8.0 (2 days ago)
TA: 130 (2 days ago)
CH: 120 (2 days ago)
CYA: 60 (2 days ago)
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So Saturday night it Was FC of 16. I saw some white stuff (we had just drained off 1/3 to lower the cya on Wednesday and I hadn’t read to let the hose run - now I realize that was probably the mistake that started this)

I started SLAM at 2 AM Sun morning to 28.5 FC. After 8 hours at 10am it was 26.5 FC. So losing 2 ppm in an overnight. Pool is inside so it doesn’t get UV. (Except for the UV light on the pump). Previous overnights I tend to lose about 1 due to the UV I think and whatever it sanitized.

I have tried to maintain at 28 and checked a few times and added a the recommended amount of bleach to bring it back to 28 each each time.

When I opened it up at 10pm Sunday. It has been 28 most of the day pump running on high speed. When I rolled the cover off and turned on the swim jets there was a lot of floating mold on the surface. I feel like there’s more than when I started SLAMMING 20 hours prior.

It seems like I have some mold in the swim jets as well because when I turn them on it seems to add floaters. The swim jets are basically an independent loop not on the circulation so I am wondering if the water and mold is hiding out in there and running it knocks em loose.
Starting the second overnight test on Sunday night at 27.5 and I can edit or reply in the morning once I have that result.

I guess my question is what should I be doing? Is it normal for it to get worse? Do I need to run the swim jets? How often? Cover open or closed?

Am I just impatient?


Extra details:
Cartridge filter, uv light

Was using pool store maintenance chemicals, had some white tissue paper problems. CYA was over 140. Stopped putting in CYA started using the calculator everything got better. Dumped water this week so that I can have my ppm lower. CYA now seems to be 60 or 70. Depending on how hard I try to see the dot.

Haven’t added anything except cal hypo granular and bleach for a while.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Can you pick pieces up? Is it flat? If so, lay a piece on some cardboard and use a drop of vinegar or muriatic acid on it and if it fizzes it might very well be calcium flakes. Your pH is high which can cause it, but your pH doesn't support that idea. Just thinking it is a quick test to rule that out?

Maddie

 

[Bperry]

If it’s covered, have you cleaned the cover? Stuff like that seems to cling to covers. The jets seem odd that they aren’t pulling sanitized water through them or do they just have separate lines that can be shut off while the equipment is running? Every line that has water in it should have water moving -though- it during the SLAM.

 

[dschlic1]

Try adding some Poly 60 algacide. I have had a similar problem in the past. The stuff laughs at SLAM chlorine levels. The Poly 60 gets rid of it fairly quickly.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Algaecides are very weak killers of algae. They work best as an "avoidance" rather than cure.

 

[Donldson]

The stuff laughs at SLAM chlorine levels. The Poly 60 gets rid of it fairly quickly.

Then you probably weren't dealing with white water mold. That stuff crumbles at the slightest amount of chlorine, that's why it mostly is a problem with baqua or other chlorine-free pools. Polyquat acts as a mild clarifier, most likely you were dealing with some sort of filtration problem and the polyquat helped in that regard.

 

[Angelos]

Thanks for all the replies so far!!

Here is an update:

This morning I measured a FC of 27.5 which would be OCLT of 0 (About 9 hours). I could have been off but I had to hurry and could only test once. There was still some remaining flakes floating around on the surface and even a few in the water if I looked by the lights. (maybe dead mold not yet cleaned up?)

I tested again at 1 PM FC was 26.0 (About 6 more hours) the sun was up sort of and there are windows by the pool so maybe whatever UV gets in burned off a bit? There is still some floaters.

My plan for today (Monday)
I am going to let the FC float down as the water as a whole looks clear and the OCLT was small. (CC almost is always < 0.5 But I think that's due to UV light)
I am going to clean the cover with the brush on the bottom side as far I can reach. (Unfortunately I cant reach the deep end as I can't stand where the cover rolls up enough to clean it and hold an air space.) I will also brush all of the top side.
I am going to grab an FC before I go to bed and do another OCLT for Tuesday AM
Each time I test and/or add chlorine I am going to run the jets to circulate water.


Answers to some questions and suggestions (I will also add inline replies):
The flakes don't seem completely flat or angular. They look a little bit blob-ish. I was able to net some and place them on cardboard. I added vinegar but they didn't bubble (at least not noticeably)

I have not cleaned the cover recently -- its entirely possible things are hiding out in the cover. I also had it rolled up for a few days while we were doing a partial drain / refill.
By clean the cover is it just scrubbing with pool water or is there something else I should be doing?

The Swim Jets are basically their own loop they have a drain line, pump and return line (no filters). When the swim jets aren't running the water in the drain / return line is mostly stagnant maybe a bit sloshes around the edges but I doubt the water moves at all. You can tell this is the case as when you first turn it on the water that comes out will be colder than the pool temperature for about 1-2 seconds.

 

[Mdragger88]

I would hold slam for one more day -white stuff floating doesn’t really sound like crystal clear water. Also clean the filter- that stuff probably globbed them up pretty good.
Keep the swim jets & any other plumbing running for now.
In the future be sure they run regularly to flush out the lines (every few days at least).
Do u have a ladder or light niche? You may wanna check those (flush them out) - any hiding place really.
Also vac hoses etc. introduce them to the slam water.
One more day of slam doesn’t hurt anything & is relatively painless but letting fc fall to then find out you didn’t get it all & have to start again is exhausting.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Most people are totally unaware that we do manufacture a bio-cleaner for swimming pools. Actually, that was our very first product Over 17 years ago and we have many thousands of active users. Swimming pools can have voluminous biofilm within the plumbing and also on any surface wherever the water touches. People notice biofilm in hot tubs more readily since the gallonage is smaller and the pollution effect is astronomically higher. One 6 ounce container treats up to 20,000 gallons if it is added monthly during the active swimming season. For this particular mold issue we would recommend that you add one container for each 15,000 gallons along with liquid chlorine, bleach or cal hypo. If you have a sand filter you will need to backwash it after day 1 or 2. It is added directly into the skimmer with the filter running.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Agree with @Ahhsomeguy . White molds are not true fungi but rather a fungus-like eukaryotic organism (similar to bacteria). If you had a major white mold outbreak, that stuff can easily grow inside the plumbing and form extensive biofilms. This is especially true in an indoor pool where warm water and no UV light allows it to proliferate quickly. You’re likely going to need a very strong plumbing line cleaner like Ahhsome as well as a lot of elbow-grease to clean out the filter as I am certain it’s completely contaminated. You do not want to back off on the SLAM as chlorine will kill it but if there are biofilms, that will act as a reservoir for additional outbreaks.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

And remember, that UV “sanitizer” is not really doing anything for disinfection, it’s mainly acting as an adjunct oxidizer to help lower the concentration of organic bather waste and avoiding the formation of some persistent combined chlorine compounds. Only a true sanitizer with a consistent residual concentration, like chlorine, is effective at keeping pathogens, molds, and algae at bay. There is no harm in using the UV light source except to your wallet for maintenance and light bulb changes.

 

[Angelos]

Thanks for all the replies again. Since I missed yesterday here is the update.

Monday night I closed the cover most of the way and went underneath it and scrubbed at it with the brush. I could see whitish-gray clumps in a few areas -- they weren't thick and there wasn't a lot but they were visible. I scrubbed them all measured a FC of 26 and closed it for the night.

Tuesday morning I measured a FC of 25 which would be OCLT of 1 (About 12 hours). I left the cover open all day and it only went down to about 24.5 after 12 more hours.
I also had switched to running the pump in High speed as opposed to the normal low speed. (I guess I left out this context initially; we run on low speed 24/7 and I normally only activate high speed for vacuuming.)
After I activated high-speed I waited a few hours and I noticed the clumps returning - this seems to me to confirm the idea that I had some biofilm hiding out in the lines, and running at low speed wasn't generating enough turbulence to knock them loose.

I had read somewhere else about putting socks on the outputs catch/breakup junk coming out of the lines so I tried that as well. All day I ran on high-speed with socks on the outputs. I also did some netting to get out the big chunks I could see a few times.

I also turned on the swim-jets for about 60 seconds 5 times throughout the day. (This is a pretty big pump, its loud and uses a bunch of power so I would prefer not to run it continuously - it takes about 2 seconds for it to clear all of the water in the lines.)

At the end of the day almost all of the clumps/flakes are gone and FC is still 24.5.

Wednesday morning (today) I measured FC of 24.5 OCLT of 0 over 12 more hours. The water is crystal clear and sparkly. I turned the swim jets on for a bit no clumps. right now the socks are still on... Plan for now is to let it drift down and see how it goes.

So here is the summary in case someone finds this thread in the future:

During SLAM :
It might include running your pumps at high speed if you have variable speed
Swim Jets should be cycled a few times per day during SLAM.
Inspect the bottom of your auto cover - you might need to brush it
Output socks might be useful in catching breaking apart film if you have it in your lines
Be patient: maintain the SLAM until all 3 criteria pass

Other Things I learned:
Swim Jets should probably be cycled at least once per day - if you are checking your chlorine, cycle your jets.
When filling your pool from a hose, let the hose run into a drain/ground for a while so you don't add white mold to your pool
Maybe Slam if you drain/refill?


And, most importantly:
TFP forums and users are the best!!

 

[Angelos]

I would hold slam for one more day -white stuff floating doesn’t really sound like crystal clear water. Also clean the filter- that stuff probably globbed them up pretty good.
Keep the swim jets & any other plumbing running for now.
In the future be sure they run regularly to flush out the lines (every few days at least).
Do u have a ladder or light niche? You may wanna check those (flush them out) - any hiding place really.
Also vac hoses etc. introduce them to the slam water.
One more day of slam doesn’t hurt anything & is relatively painless but letting fc fall to then find out you didn’t get it all & have to start again is exhausting.

Thanks --- I did end up still maintaining above 24 (CYA is 60).

I have a molded in-wall plastic ladder --- but I did scrub that thing out pretty good. I also scrubbed the underside of the cover (the parts I could reach with the pole while still being able to stand - I'm not brave/stupid enough to swim under it on the deep end and try to scrub it.)
I think running the pumps at high speed also helped to knock the Crud loose in the lines.

 

[Angelos]

Agree with @Ahhsomeguy . White molds are not true fungi but rather a fungus-like eukaryotic organism (similar to bacteria). If you had a major white mold outbreak, that stuff can easily grow inside the plumbing and form extensive biofilms. This is especially true in an indoor pool where warm water and no UV light allows it to proliferate quickly. You’re likely going to need a very strong plumbing line cleaner like Ahhsome as well as a lot of elbow-grease to clean out the filter as I am certain it’s completely contaminated. You do not want to back off on the SLAM as chlorine will kill it but if there are biofilms, that will act as a reservoir for additional outbreaks.

I will try to clean out the filter today -- I'm pretty confident that everything else got cleaned off good but I can go in there and take a look at the cartridges and scrub them off a bit. FC is still pretty high so that should take care of any re-introduction after I clean them off.

I didn't know at the time about UV, but now I actually think it might be helpful as the pool is inside and gets very little UV from the sun unless I open the cover during the day and then only the UV that can pass through the windows would get through. So I think it might make sense in my case just for oxidation.

 

[Angelos]

Most people are totally unaware that we do manufacture a bio-cleaner for swimming pools. Actually, that was our very first product Over 17 years ago and we have many thousands of active users. Swimming pools can have voluminous biofilm within the plumbing and also on any surface wherever the water touches. People notice biofilm in hot tubs more readily since the gallonage is smaller and the pollution effect is astronomically higher. One 6 ounce container treats up to 20,000 gallons if it is added monthly during the active swimming season. For this particular mold issue we would recommend that you add one container for each 15,000 gallons along with liquid chlorine, bleach or cal hypo. If you have a sand filter you will need to backwash it after day 1 or 2. It is added directly into the skimmer with the filter running.

I think the high speed might have knocked enough off and the problem was started just last week when I refilled. I think I will wait on adding that product until after I clean off the filter. If I notice more after that then I think that would be a good next step.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Biofilms can not be “knocked loose” by simple speed changes. Water turbulence, at least at pool pump speeds, is not enough to remove biofilms. They must be chemically removed by a surfactant powerful enough to penetrate the film and degrade its bond to the plastic surface. Biofilms are immune to chlorine oxidation and bacteria can live within the films interior even when substantial amounts of chlorine are present at the surface of the film. Biofouling of water distribution systems is a huge area of engineering science and water treatment technology.

Time will tell if you’ve cleaned the pipes out enough but don’t be surprised if the white mold returns.