Where is the starter capacitor on this Century MagneTek 2-speed pump?

[PlayfulGeek]

The two-speed pump on my 1993 Sundance spa only hums when started (on low), but will start if bumped to high speed. I'm guessing the starter capacitor is bad. But where is it? I had the motor replaced maybe 15 years ago with a refurbished one. No spa repair place in my area (San Jose, CA) is willing to touch anything this old—they can't even get a new pump for it—so, I'm trying to repair it myself.

The bump on the side of the motor contains what I presume is the run capacitor (25 μF, 370 V). I pulled the bell expecting to find a starter capacitor inside (based on YouTube videos), but see only the Klixon motor protector, and a white cut-out switch with spring mechanism on the shaft. There may be something as part of the white terminal block—can't quite see. I don't see anything that looks like another capacitor.

Does it not have a starter capacitor? In which case is the starter winding bad? Any suggestions or other help would be appreciated!

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

@RDspaguy works on old spas and may have some ideas when he wanders by.

 

[Lake Placid]

Until @RDspaguy comes by, check your run capacitor to ensure it is within spec. I’m not 100% confident as i don’t work on spas, but feel that could be your issue.

 

[PlayfulGeek]

Thanks, @Lake Placid , I checked my three meters and none has the capacitance setting. I guess I could just try replacing the run capacitor. Though, I'd expect it not to kick in until the motor was running, AND I'm saying that just based on the name plus forum posts that failed run capacitors are more likely to cause breaker trips. I'm really trying to piece fragments of knowledge together here.

And I'm intrigued about a "Dolphin Robot", in your sig! I've swum with dolphins in the wild, but imagine this might be a pool cleaner?

 

[Lake Placid]

Thanks, @Lake Placid , I checked my three meters and none has the capacitance setting. I guess I could just try replacing the run capacitor. Though, I'd expect it not to kick in until the motor was running, AND I'm saying that just based on the name plus forum posts that failed run capacitors are more likely to cause breaker trips. I'm really trying to piece fragments of knowledge together here.

And I'm intrigued about a "Dolphin Robot", in your sig! I've swum with dolphins in the wild, but imagine this might be a pool cleaner?

Yes sir. It’s an older Maytronics robot cleaner….I wouldn’t trade it for the world. Others on the forum would disagree … as for your motor, everything I’m coming across indicates no start capacitor, only the run capacitor on that motor. Without the ability to test it, I’d swap it out for a known good….just get one that’s returnable if it doesn’t fix your issue. Take my free advice for what you paid for it…

 

[PlayfulGeek]

Thanks for the help here. Thought I'd close the loop in case someone has a similar problem.

Indeed, the Century (AO Smith) Magnatek 177064 motor does not have a starter capacitor. I paid for access to a pool/spa expert on JustAnswer.com ($55 monthly subscription + $1 for the question), and he suggested I check the starter winding for continuity. I tried it with the cut-out centrifugal switch in both positions. There was continuity.

While there, I decided to remove a lead from the microswitch and test that: it was always open, and there was no resistance on the actuator. The switch was bad. Indeed, it had a broken spring when I drilled it open. "Cherry D45" was barely legible on the switch, but I found a bunch online. Unfortunately, none looked quite like mine.

I finally found the specs for the Cherry D4 series of switches. The trailing '5' in 'D45' is one of six additional parameters: there are hundreds of configurations. Maybe I could order a similar one, drill it open, transfer the different actuator, and glue it back together? Hmm. Not the best idea.

So, I started from the other direction: Can I find the switch in the parts list for the motor? I found the list for that series. It showed my 177064 motor has no starter capacitor. It also showed the microswitch number for a group of 36 motor numbers including 177064, but there was a single number in one column and 26 numbers in four more columns for the switch number??

The single number was the one to use. Ordered. Received two days ago. Installed. Reassembled (easier than expected). Everything works.

Pleased to have stuck with it, with help from several folk. Also appreciate why no repair person would touch it. Though, much of what I had to learn, they would have known to begin with. Guess it's part of "repair nothing; replace everything".

Spa ....aaaah! (My dad's tagline from his spa biz from decades ago.)

--Dan

 

[RDspaguy]

Sorry to have missed this one. Glad you figured it out.
Not sure what "repair nothing replace everything" means exactly, but the guys who repair motors work at motor shops. At my labor rates of $100/hr and a replacement cost of a few hundred $ how long would you pay me to work on it with no warranty or guarantee when I'm done? Recommending replacement is doing you a favor under those circumstances. If you can fix it yourself and have the time of course it is better to repair, but once labor rates get involved it's a different story. I personally stopped offering to have motors rebuilt after a series of rebuild failures that just cost more in the end and I got the blame because I took the thing to the rebuilder for them. Now if you want it rebuilt you deal with the motor shop yourself. I'm not buying any more new motors because of bad rebuilds I didn't even do.