Underwater liner fade

[jromano23]

I’ve done a lot of searching and I’m not finding much luck so thought I’d try to ask directly. We are getting a new liner and I want to avoid the same mistakes. It’s hard to see the normal waterline but you can see the original liner color (vinyl loop-Loc dark grey granite) above the waterline, a fade below the waterline and then another shade lighter below the water line when the pool is closed and drained below the returns. Since the pool is being drained for the new liner, I can see something is happening whether it’s all year round or just after closing and I’m curious what chemical imbalance is causing it? Im sure That if I just follow the guidelines here all will be ok but for my knowledge, I’d like to know the root cause.

Located in NY, SWG, Mesh cover is on during the winter and the pool does refill to the top from rain and snow throughout the winter before opening.

Any insight is appreciated, just looking to know what caused it. I originally hired people to close my pool but that doesn’t mean it’s not from me either. I’ve always circulated all the chemicals for 24hours before closing but I never tested and balanced after it was winterized. Not sure how to accomplish mixing everything in when it’s winterized.

 

[Newdude]

Hey J !!!! While the FC may have reached damaging levels over the liners lifespan and bleached it, its usually an ink problem and not a chemistry problem. Quality liners fade less, which loop loc certainly applies, but darker liners tend to fade more, even from the quality makers.

Was it noticable when under water ? Many times some fade doesnt appear so when its wet, or not as much so.

 

[Pool_Medic]

Vegetable dyes vs mineral dyes. I believe the vegetable dyes fade quicker. Make sure your chemistry is balanced at all times, and yes that means hardness. Calcium is used in the manufacturing process.

Over time, no liner will ever look as good as it did the day it was installed.

 

[Orion7319]

Vegetable dyes vs mineral dyes. I believe the vegetable dyes fade quicker. Make sure your chemistry is balanced at all times, and yes that means hardness. Calcium is used in the manufacturing process.

Over time, no liner will ever look as good as it did the day it was installed.

So are you saying that those of us with vinyl pools need to worry about CH being too low? I always keep seeing a lot of differing advice on this.
EDIT: I always just keep mine at around 150, just to prevent foaming and because I don’t like the water too soft. In looking at the recommended levels from the manufacturer of my particular liner they do say to keep it at a minimum of 150, but they don’t state that anything lower then this will harm it.

How to Balance the Water Chemistry in your Vinyl Liner Pool - Latham Pool

Maintaining proper water chemistry is an art of the right ingredients. Find out how to properly balance water chemistry in a vinyl liner swimming pool.

www.lathampool.com

 

[jromano23]

Hey J !!!! While the FC may have reached damaging levels over the liners lifespan and bleached it, its usually an ink problem and not a chemistry problem. Quality liners fade less, which loop loc certainly applies, but darker liners tend to fade more, even from the quality makers.

Was it noticable when under water ? Many times some fade doesnt appear so when its wet, or not as much so.

Thanks for the reply! I guess i'm hoping it wasn't an ink problem but i'm not surprised either. It became noticeable over time, more at the start of each season i'd notice it more and then would look back. The actual telling sign was when I could see the imprints of our ledge loungers where the fading wasn't as significant, then I needed some patch work utilizing the extra liner I had and that's where I noticed it the most.

 

[jromano23]

So are you saying that those of us with vinyl pools need to worry about CH? I always keep seeing a lot of differing advice on this.
EDIT: I always just keep mine at around 150, just to prevent foaming and because I don’t like the water too soft. In looking at the recommended levels from the manufacturer of my particular liner they do say to keep it at a minimum of 150, but they don’t state that anything lower then this will harm it.

How to Balance the Water Chemistry in your Vinyl Liner Pool - Latham Pool

Maintaining proper water chemistry is an art of the right ingredients. Find out how to properly balance water chemistry in a vinyl liner swimming pool.

www.lathampool.com

I agree, while I do plan on adding CC this year as it wasn't my focus on the past I have read plenty of times that it has no ill effect on the liner. Either way i'm adding it because there is a minimum suggestion in the Pool Math but i'm also going to pay more attention to it than I have in the past just to be safe. I do expect fading over time, i'm just trying to get to that over time part.

 

[Orion7319]

Thanks for the reply! I guess i'm hoping it wasn't an ink problem but i'm not surprised either. It became noticeable over time, more at the start of each season i'd notice it more and then would look back. The actual telling sign was when I could see the imprints of our ledge loungers where the fading wasn't as significant, then I needed some patch work utilizing the extra liner I had and that's where I noticed it the most.

When we bought our house, the blue pool liner had faded to become completely white. So much so I thought it was supposed to be that way until I noticed the print under the skimmer gasket. My current liner is blue all the way though with a print on it as apposed to white with a blue print on it. I don’t know if the print will fade or not, but if it does it will fade to blue.

 

[jromano23]

Here’s an updated picture of the liner. You’ll see a patch of the original liner that was installed at the beginning of last season, it’s been my way of seeing that I’m doing what’s right versus the PB. It’s just crazy to see 3 different lines of fading but it is what it is.

 

[Newdude]

I guess i'm hoping it wasn't an ink problem but i'm not surprised either

All liners fade, and in places like the southwest, they do so in a week. We fare a lot better in the northeast. Personally I would never buy a generic liner, even if I could prove it was made and resold by one of the big manufacturers. (Looplock, Merlin, GLI, Latham). There would be no guarantee the sister brand got the same materials and quality control.

But chemistry can play a big part as well. Particularly how people 'used to do it' when we meet them. So how'd you manage the pool previously? Most subscribe to the once weekly shock method which is terrible for liners. Then for closing, they spike the FC again. We affectionately refer to both as the dump and pray method because they aren't measured or controlled. Without understanding what FC levels are safe because of your CYA level, there is a good chance you or your pool people bleached the liner some.

Here we understand the relationship of CYA buffering FC as a % value that's constant. FC is safe for swimmers and equipment up to 40% of any CYA level. Regular operating level will be between 5% and 10% for most.

See the values here FC/CYA Levels

 

[jromano23]

When we bought our house, the blue pool liner had faded to become completely white. So much so I thought it was supposed to be that way until I noticed the print under the skimmer gasket. My current liner is blue all the way though with a print on it as apposed to white with a blue print on it. I don’t know if the print will fade or not, but if it does it will fade to blue.

Yea, this is on a dark grey base. I guess I was hoping this would fade to dark grey and not the light grey.

 

[jromano23]

All liners fade, and in places like the southwest, they do so in a week. We fare a lot better in the northeast. Personally I would never buy a generic liner, even if I could prove it was made and resold by one of the big manufacturers. (Looplock, Merlin, GLI, Latham). There would be no guarantee the sister brand got the same materials and quality control.

But chemistry can play a big part as well. Particularly how people 'used to do it' when we meet them. So how'd you manage the pool previously? Most subscribe to the once weekly shock method which is terrible for liners. Then for closing, they spike the FC again. We affectionately refer to both as the dump and pray method because they aren't measured or controlled. Without understanding what FC levels are safe because of your CYA level, there is a good chance you or your pool people bleached the liner some.

Here we understand the relationship of CYA buffering FC as a % value that's constant. FC is safe for swimmers and equipment up to 40% of any CYA level. Regular operating level will be between 5% and 10% for most.

See the values here FC/CYA Levels

Thanks! yes I definitely expect fading, this liner and pool was installed in 2018 and the fading feels excessive. I never had or understood a pool before that so we went with a company to maintain everything. They had the SGW at 95% and would shock like crazy. I used strip testing and ended up lowering it to 85%, still not understanding anything. Fast forward a couple of years after watching them and decided to take everything on myself at the opening. I've been maintaining since 2020, but that was a learning year. I put CYA in after I noticed chlorine wasn't staying in and ended up lowering the SWG to 35% after seeing that it was sufficient. It was a real learn as I go that year. 2021 I bought all of the regents and proper testing and while I put CYA in, I didn't pay attention to keep the level up and same goes for the CH. I just worried about PH and Alkalinity the most. I'm prepared this year to keep track of everything from the charts, have the app and all of that jazz. I prefer not to shock if I don't have to, I'm hoping the non chlorine shock suffices if necessary.

We are putting the same exact liner in (Loop Loc Granite Grey) and part of me believes I should be OK, but part of me is concerned i'll run into the same situation again just on liner quality and dyes. I'm obviously just trying to hope it's more chemical that I can control but the lounger imprints throw me off as well since those are under water.

 

[Newdude]

I prefer not to shock if I don't have to,

We never shock here and you won't either.

It sounds like you had a runaway SWG and the pool service was fine with an out of control FC so they could show up less often.

This liner should fare better than the last. Ask any questions at any point and we'll help you stay within the Recommended Levels

 

[jromano23]

We never shock here and you won't either.

It sounds like you had a runaway SWG and the pool service was fine with an out of control FC so they could show up less often.

This liner should fare better than the last. Ask any questions at any point and we'll help you stay within the Recommended Levels

Thanks for all the info and replies! gave the gold support for it since i'll be here enjoying everything the site offers.

Last question, what do you do during the winter when everything is plugged up? I drain and know that my levels should drop when rain/snow get through the mesh cover and raise the water level. Lifting the cover is the easy part, how do you mix? all I can think of is mixing around like a witches brew or something. I'd be checking the PH and Alkalinity during the winter.

 

[Newdude]

what do you do during the winter when everything is plugged up?

Not a whole lot. We try to wait as long to close as possible. If you make it to 60 degree or below water, algae goes dormant and won't grow exponentially until it warms up again. We close at SLAM fc per the FC/CYA Levels and check in the late winter/ early spring that some FC is still in there, when the ice first melts. Then we open before the water warms up to 60.

If you need a late winter boost of FC, pop enough of the cover to be able to brush that area well. Bleach is heavier than water and will puddle up.

Gave the gold support for it since i'll be here enjoying everything the site offers.

THANKS for helping us help you.

 

[jromano23]

Not a whole lot. We try to wait as long to close as possible. If you make it to 60 degree or below water, algae goes dormant and won't grow exponentially until it warms up again. We close at SLAM fc per the FC/CYA Levels and check in the late winter/ early spring that some FC is still in there, when the ice first melts. Then we open before the water warms up to 60.

If you need a late winter boost of FC, pop enough of the cover to be able to brush that area well. Bleach is heavier than water and will puddle up.

THANKS for helping us help you.

Sounds good to me! We've been closing in October and Opening in April just to stretch out actually looking at the pool so naturally that's been working out for us algae wise. Thanks for the tips, witches brew it is!

 

[Newdude]

We've been closing in October and Opening in April just to stretch out actually looking at the pool so naturally that's been working out for us algae wise

Anesthetics alone saved me many years before knowing why.

I HATED looking at the green trampoline, even if it was 30 degrees out.

 

[Orion7319]

Anesthetics alone saved me many years before knowing why.

Anesthetics and their side effects and all….

 

[jromano23]

Anesthetics alone saved me many years before knowing why.

I HATED looking at the green trampoline, even if it was 30 degrees out.

The trampoline is definitely the worst part

 

[Newdude]

Anesthetics and their side effects and all….

I like the autocorrect better !!!!! Leaving becuae funnier.