Umbrella Sleeve in Sun Shelf

[wakerider017]

Hey guys,

I will be building a new 20,000 gallon inground gunite salt water pool (PebbleSheen finish) with spa and 12" sun shelf in a few short weeks, and one of the features my wife was interested in was an umbrella sleeve in the sun shelf. Seems like a cool idea to me, but I am a little worried about any stress it may cause on the shell/pebble (either from wind while the umbrella is open or someone walking into it or pulling on it). Am I being overly concerned?

Also, I've been doing some reading and it looks like there are several viable options for the actual sleeve itself...

-PVC pipe (probably what the pb will use if I don't say otherwise)
-AquaStar Plastic Sleeve 5" or 7.5"
1. AquaStar Pool Products | 7½ Umbrella Stand with Sleeve and Center Cap - 7.5"
2. AquaStar Pool Products | 5 Umbrella Stand with Sleeve and Center Cap - 5"

-S.R. Smith 6" sleeves (not sure if bronze or stainless is best and 1.5" or 1.9" diameter)?
1. 6 Accessories | S.R.Smith - Bronze
2. 6 Accessories | S.R.Smith - Bronze
3. 6 Accessories | S.R.Smith - Stainless
4. 6 Accessories | S.R.Smith - Stainless

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Attached is a picture that is very similar to our pool layout. We are just a bit larger scale. Thanks!

 

[santacruzpool]

We have the Aquastar PVC style units - 2 on our sun shelf in black, 2 on our walkway/deck in gray. The sun shelf ones are around 12-18" away from the edge to prevent any issues with support or cracking etc...

 

[Dirk]

I will be building a new 20,000 gallon inground gunite salt water pool (PebbleSheen finish) with spa and 12" sun shelf in a few short weeks, and one of the features my wife was interested in was an umbrella sleeve in the sun shelf. Seems like a cool idea to me, but I am a little worried about any stress it may cause on the shell/pebble (either from wind while the umbrella is open or someone walking into it or pulling on it). Am I being overly concerned?

Based on no personal experience with a sleeve, I share your concern completely. It is a long fulcrum with a huge, top-heavy wind scoop on the end of it! Now these are done all the time, so there must be a way to do it right, but I wouldn't want one in my pool. I don't think they're going to compromise the gunite, but maybe the plaster, or the watertight seal they must maintain up against the plaster. Frankly, I'm not seeing how these work at all, but like I said, I don't have one.

Plus, take a look at your pic! No way to actually put the shade where you want it, for large portions of the day. I don't see them as practical, at all.

I use a shade sail over my pool. Doesn't solve for movability, but I don't have a shelf so I move myself around the shallow end to stay in the shade. Others here use the cantilevered stands, sitting on the deck, which can be moved around. I like the no-pole-no-weight-no-hole and absolute wind-proof attributes of my sail. I like the movability of a cantilevered umbrella. That's me.

What happens to all the gunk that collects in the umbrella stand hole? Is that an issue? Does algae hide in there? Am I a pool-half-empty kind of guy?

 

[santacruzpool]

What happens to all the gunk that collects in the umbrella stand hole? Is that an issue? Does algae hide in there?

When covered nothing much gets in - uncovered stuff does sometimes settle in the hole - but all you have to do is put a the umbrella in the hole a few times in succession and it pumps the stuff out.

I also think that the umbrella hole as shown in the original posters photograph - in the center of the large sun shelf - would never crack or have any issues. Mine is close to the edge and the pool builder was more concerned drilling the hole carefully than once it was used. The plaster was used to hold ours in place, so a larger hole was drilled just before the plaster install for the correct location for our umbrella holder - the original hole (located in the wrong spot during gunite) we kept as a second alternative spot for the umbrella.

There are many other things that require a hole and are placed in steps & sun shelf areas all the time including bubblers, lights, ladders, jets, cleaning heads, and other features. I think if the gunite, shotcrete, and/or concrete is thick enough below the area there shouldn't ever be any issues.

 

[wakerider017]

Some good points to think about. Regarding the shade sail, I do like those, but because I am getting a cage - I'm not quite sure how that would work or look...

I tried a quick Google search and didn't really find many results. Basically I will have a 5' walk (on 3 sides of the pool) between the edge of the pool and the screen enclosure.

Wondering if I could use the house / aluminum screen frame for anchor points? Or would that be too much tension on the screen?

 

[Txjole]

My builder steered me away from the in water sleeve because I have small kids and they grab and yank on everything. I placed them on the deck, cheaper and safer and the sun is only straight up once per day.

 

[Dirk]

Cage. Hadn't heard them called that before!

I have mine cranked down, but that's for the wind. Probably wouldn't need that inside your screen, but maybe that's not the right thing for this application.

Are there no solutions that come with those structures to block sunlight? Similar to what they have for skylights? Seems like that would be a common need...

Here's one for skylights that gets the 30% tax credit (though I suppose that means they're crazy expensive).

Skylight Specialist

Something simple could work. Crank it open, crank it closed. Placed just so to put shade where you want it most. Something like that?

Found this (googled "screen room ceiling sun shades"), scroll down to "Symphony Cellular Shades."

Sunroom Blinds and Patio Shades | Great Day Improvements

 

[wakerider017]

Cage. Hadn't heard them called that before!

I have mine cranked down, but that's for the wind. Probably wouldn't need that inside your screen, but maybe that's not the right thing for this application.

Are there no solutions that come with those structures to block sunlight? Similar to what they have for skylights? Seems like that would be a common need...

Here's one for skylights that gets the 30% tax credit (though I suppose that means they're crazy expensive).

Skylight Specialist

Something simple could work. Crank it open, crank it closed. Placed just so to put shade where you want it most. Something like that?

Found this (googled "screen room ceiling sun shades"), scroll down to "Symphony Cellular Shades."

Sunroom Blinds and Patio Shades | Great Day Improvements

Yeah, seems like you would be talking about something like a SunSetter. My in-laws have one on their screen that they can crank up and down to block sun from coming in the 'side-panels' of the screen (West to block out the blinding setting sun). Not sure how overhead would work.

Honestly a shade sail is much more visually appealing. I suppose I could always set posts...

 

[Dirk]

Does wind get inside a cage? You might not need one as beefy as mine, which requires extreme tension to withstand the 20+MPH winds I get. It was about four bills for a smallish one. A lighter tarp-like sail might work inside a screened area. Like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Shelter...Shade-Sail-Poles-Not-Included-25670/204647839

At $38 it's worth a try... even if you just want to see what it'll look/feel like, before you go setting poles and spending a pile...

 

[vegas-doug]

I installed the Aquastar PVC style. I purchased the 7-1/2" but the pebble installer switched it out for a 5" of the same color since the shell wasn't dug out enough by the gunite guys. I wouldn't be concerned about the pool shell or pebble at all. Mine and other's I know has held up well.

With that in mind, the Aquastar umbrella holders don't seem to work very well with my umbrellas that have a 1-1/2" pole diameter. I know several other people with the same issue. They are sized somewhere around 1-5/8" so they are not snug at all and can allow the umbrella to lean a little. Also had a gust of wind take the umbrella for a ride one time. Seems to help not opening umbrella all the way, maybe like 75 percent. Hasn't been picked up since I've been doing that, even on windy days.

 

[wakerider017]

I installed the Aquastar PVC style. I purchased the 7-1/2" but the pebble installer switched it out for a 5" of the same color since the shell wasn't dug out enough by the gunite guys. I wouldn't be concerned about the pool shell or pebble at all. Mine and other's I know has held up well.

With that in mind, the Aquastar umbrella holders don't seem to work very well with my umbrellas that have a 1-1/2" pole diameter. I know several other people with the same issue. They are sized somewhere around 1-5/8" so they are not snug at all and can allow the umbrella to lean a little. Also had a gust of wind take the umbrella for a ride one time. Seems to help not opening umbrella all the way, maybe like 75 percent. Hasn't been picked up since I've been doing that, even on windy days.

So how does the install work? Should the gunite crew effectively make a 'pit' for the sleeve? Then the plaster/pebble guys actually install it?

 

[santacruzpool]

My gunite installers put a scrap piece of PVC in the shelf and pulled it out once the gunite had set enough to hold the shape of the hole. The resulting hole was a bit rough but was easily filled at the plaster stage.

 

[wakerider017]

My gunite installers put a scrap piece of PVC in the shelf and pulled it out once the gunite had set enough to hold the shape of the hole. The resulting hole was a bit rough but was easily filled at the plaster stage.

Makes sense. So I'd just need to make sure they dug that area out sufficiently to accommodate the 7.5" sleeve and still have decent shell thickness around the sleeve.