To empty or not to empty

[SteveOL]

First time poster here.

I've had a few skin issues for a while and barely used our hot tub since May. Doc thinks it’s mild psuedomonas foliculitus. I've had itchy skin for months despite no spa use. Might be just me.

Do I need to do a full empty and clean, refill and balance?

I've given it a superchlorination over a couple of days up to 25ppm and it is sitting on 15ppm and not moving now.

TH 260
TC 15
FC 15
pH 7.85 and steady.
TA 50
CA 60

Ideally I'd like to empty some water (doing it as we speak) and get the FC to 5ppm. Water is super clear and no sign of biofilm. I'll get the Ph to 7.5 once I put the water back in that I've taken out.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! I would first be suspicious of your water testing. Your signature shows test strips and store testing which we never recommend. Always rely on a Taylor K-2006C in your area. If you travel south to the US the TF-100 or TF-Pro series kits are a great value if mailed to a PO Box down here.

In any case, proper water testing would be first. Have you ever performed an Ahh-Some purge? That is highly recommended as well.

Checkout the link below for tons of great info. It should help.

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[SteveOL]

Welcome to TFP! I would first be suspicious of your water testing. Your signature shows test strips and store testing which we never recommend. Always rely on a Taylor K-2006C in your area. If you travel south to the US the TF-100 or TF-Pro series kits are a great value if mailed to a PO Box down here.

In any case, proper water testing would be first. Have you ever performed an Ahh-Some purge? That is highly recommended as well.

Checkout the link below for tons of great info. It should help.

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for that.

I'm in Australia. Not so easy for a quick drive. Ahh-some products aren't available here as far as I'm aware but plenty of other products are.

Thank you for the link.

 

[Texas Splash]

I'm in Australia. Not so easy for a quick drive.

 

[Texas Splash]

Let me tag @AUSpool and @mgtfp as they may have some local intel on products.

 

[AUSpool]

Welcome to the forums SteveOL.

Unfortunately spas just aren’t my thing but using a decent test kit with a FAS/DPD for FC is and in Aussie the only place to get that is from CCl or a Taylor 2006C from mr poolman.

I’ve experienced the itchy skin from the spa while on holidays and the way to remedy it is to follow the TFP proticals for chlorine use in spas. As far as I know a drain and refill wont hurt but you’d need to restart it the TFP way.

 

[SteveOL]

Thanks mate. Sounds like a plan.

Couldn’t trouble you for a link to the link to the TFP proticols for chlorine use in spas?

 

[SteveOL]

Welcome to the forums SteveOL.

Unfortunately spas just aren’t my thing but using a decent test kit with a FAS/DPD for FC is and in Aussie the only place to get that is from CCl or a Taylor 2006C from mr poolman.

I’ve experienced the itchy skin from the spa while on holidays and the way to remedy it is to follow the TFP proticals for chlorine use in spas. As far as I know a drain and refill wont hurt but you’d need to restart it the TFP way.

While I’ve got you @AUSpool , is White King ok as a sanitiser for the spa? Think it’s 4.2% sodium hypochlorite so a bit weaker than the US bleach such as Clorox.

 

[AUSpool]

It looks ok. If it’s just bleach, unscented, then it’s ok but most of our bleaches have fragrances added. Pool chlorine from bunnings is good choice.

 

[AUSpool]

Thanks mate. Sounds like a plan.

Couldn’t trouble you for a link to the link to the TFP proticols for chlorine use in spas?

The sticky on the top of the spa forums.

The spas we used while on holiday were all managed with mini tabs which is ok as long as you keep an eye on the CyA level and switch to liquid as required to keep it in range.

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[SteveOL]

It looks ok. If it’s just bleach, unscented, then it’s ok but most of our bleaches have fragrances added. Pool chlorine from bunnings is good choice.

You’re right. It’s just about the only one that isn’t lemon scented. Thanks.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

@Ahhsomeguy - any availability of your product Down Under? If not, know of any good alternatives.

@SteveOL - if you’ve gotten a folliculitis infection then the tub needs to be purged. You may not see any biofilms on the shell of the tub but I almost can guarantee they are in the plumbing. You can superchlorinate until the kangaroos comes home but it won’t matter. Biofilms are highly adherent and very resistant to chlorine diffusion. So the bacteria can happily reside in the reservoir of the films while your chlorine does nothing to them. If you can’t get Ahh-some where you are, then you’ll need to find an effective alternative. Hot tubs are just giant tubs of “human soup” … they need to be purged and drained regularly no matter how clear the water looks.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Lo-Chlor purchases our bio-cleaner called AquaClarity Gel. They dilute it and have products that will assist. They are in Australia.
Hot Springs Spas in NSW carries our gel purge product. Both have inventory as I write this.

 

[SteveOL]

@Ahhsomeguy - any availability of your product Down Under? If not, know of any good alternatives.

@SteveOL - if you’ve gotten a folliculitis infection then the tub needs to be purged. You may not see any biofilms on the shell of the tub but I almost can guarantee they are in the plumbing. You can superchlorinate until the kangaroos comes home but it won’t matter. Biofilms are highly adherent and very resistant to chlorine diffusion. So the bacteria can happily reside in the reservoir of the films while your chlorine does nothing to them. If you can’t get Ahh-some where you are, then you’ll need to find an effective alternative. Hot tubs are just giant tubs of “human soup” … they need to be purged and drained regularly no matter how clear the water looks.

I thought as much. Thank you for that.

 

[AUSpool]

It doesn’t look like Ahh-some is directly available in AU. Maybe via Amazon or eBay but the shipping is a bit steep. Ahh-some is 3% Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride and 10-15% trade secret but also a cat2 chemical. We have a few products sold as spa pipe cleaners that are Benzalkonium Chloride 50-80g/L + trade secrets like the zodiac spa pipe cleaner. Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride and Benzalkonium Chloride are the same chemical species. The cleaners all appear to be ammonium based which makes sense. I think the Ahh-some is a better product but the Aussie cleaners will still do the job.

 

[SteveOL]

It doesn’t look like Ahh-some is directly available in AU. Maybe via Amazon or eBay but the shipping is a bit steep. Ahh-some is 3% Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride and 10-15% trade secret but also a cat2 chemical. We have a few products sold as spa pipe cleaners that are Benzalkonium Chloride 50-80g/L + trade secrets like the zodiac spa pipe cleaner. Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride and Benzalkonium Chloride are the same chemical species. The cleaners all appear to be ammonium based which makes sense. I think the Ahh-some is a better product but the Aussie cleaners will still do the job.

Thank you.

 

[SteveOL]

I know it's not the done thing at TFP, but while I'm waiting for the test kit with a FAS/DPD for FC to be delivered (thanks @AUSpool - got it from CCL online) I went to a store for a test:

TA 62.33 (adj)
pH 8.3
FC 11.8
CC 0
CH 171
CA 38
Phosphates 0.117
LSI 0.27

Added 60g of dry acid to lower pH by 0.82 (and TA by 14). Just got to get the chlorine down to 4-5ppm.

If I get no joy with my skin issue after that I'll purge as per @JoyfulNoise comment.

Looking forward to the test kit coming. As a geologist, former high school science teacher and closet nerd that's right in my wheelhouse.

(Edit) NOTE: If you ever wondered whether store tests aren't to be trusted, I just calibrated a digital pH tester then tested the water after adding the 60g of dry acid. It was 6.73. I am pretty sure my pH has been around 7.5 - 7.6 so I am quite certain the store pH test with their machine was wrong. Bring on the test kit!

 

[AUSpool]

No need to bother with phosphates and the LSI is not worth much but for a fibre glass spa it’s where it should. You would be more worried about corrosion to metal parts so on the slightly positive side is good. In reality anything between 0.6 and -0.6 is ok but as clos as practical 0.0 is the goal.

Dry acid will leave sulphate ions behind. The acid mine drainage culprit. Anything above 300ppm is considered high and have a potential for corrosion to metal parts. And no one tests for sulphates so you have no idea where you are. Spas are easier the drain and start again though.

A bit of calcium will help to prevent foaming and its in the tap water anyway.

A bit of CyA will help with swimmer comfort from higher levels of FC.

I have the impression that most Aussie shops think bromine is the sanitizer of choice for spas but my exposure to spars has been in the Canadian ski fields and they almost exclusively use mini trichlor tabs in a spar floater. And just manage the CyA levels as needed I guess.

Try not to chase values too much. The pH will rise but be careful not to go too low. 6.7 is to low. That’s in the corrosion to every thing range. Keep notes and used to how much you need. Don’t go below 7.0. I wouldn’t go below 7.2 which would give a 0.2 margin of error.

 

[Mdragger88]

Be sure to follow the
FC/CYA Levels - you never want the fc to fall below minimum at any time.
This may mean starting with a higher fc level at the beginning of your soak to ensure that doesn’t happen.
The bather load in a small spa is great - A couple of people for an hour is kinda like having a frat party in an average sized pool each time.
Many people underestimate the fc consumption/demand and that’s where they run into trouble.
Your regular testing (before & after use & daily to understand standby losses) will be your guide.
I suspect once you complete a purge & begin anew you’ll experience lower standby fc loss rates.

 

[SteveOL]

Welcome to the forums SteveOL.

Unfortunately spas just aren’t my thing but using a decent test kit with a FAS/DPD for FC is and in Aussie the only place to get that is from CCl or a Taylor 2006C from mr poolman.

I’ve experienced the itchy skin from the spa while on holidays and the way to remedy it is to follow the TFP proticals for chlorine use in spas. As far as I know a drain and refill wont hurt but you’d need to restart it the TFP way.

G'day @AUSpool .

I received my CCL testing kit today. Thank you for the tip. Brett is a champ.

I found testing CYA the trickiest one. Difficult to get the 50ppm standard on the money. The rest of the tests were simple and I actually enjoyed doing them. Used to teach high school science and I'm a geologist so stands to reason. Plus I'm the family's closet nerd.

The results are as follows:
CYA - 30ppm
FC - 10ppm
CC - 1ppm
pH - 7.55 (seemed half way between 7.5 & 7.6)
TA - 60ppm
CH - 175ppm

Water seems healthy. Pool Math app recommends shocking with 60ml of the 4.2% bleach I have (White King) to get it up to 12pm.

I assume there's no need to test CYA or CH now. Just maintain testing pH, FC, CC and TA?