Spillway Best Practices

[ifunlisted]

I have a combo Pool/Spa. The spa is raised and has a spillway that flows into the pool. My goal is to keep the spillway area from drying out and I'm wondering if there's a recommended method of maintaining a high enough water level in the spa to keep a flow of water going over the spillway. Currently the water level sits appx 1/4 inch below the level of the spillway unless I run the spillway feature (Pentair system).

The way I see it (and I'm new to this) is there are 3 options...
1) Leave the spillway feature on continuously (seems like a big waste of energy)
2) Schedule the Spillway feature intermittently throughout the day (seems like it would be unnecessary)
3) Adjust my valve actuator so there's still a little flow going to the spa while running the Pool feature (but will that result in too much chlorine being pumped into the spa from the SWG?)

 

[mknauss]

Option 2 is what you want. You want to circulate pool water through the spa a couple times per day to keep the spa water chlorinated. Start with two 30 minute periods. Space them apart by several hours.

If you continuously run the spillway when running your pump, you are aerating the water and your pH will rise much quicker.

 

[ifunlisted]

Fantastic, thank you sir!!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Fun,

Nice looking set up...

Do you really want the spillway to not dry out, or are you trying to not see the scale that appears to be there in the pic?

It could just be the pic, I guess??

I can't tell if you have a make up valve or not based on the equipment pad pic.. Looks like it might be hard to do, but post a couple more pics of the pad from different angles.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ifunlisted]

Fun,

Nice looking set up...

Do you really want the spillway to not dry out, or are you trying to not see the scale that appears to be there in the pic?

It could just be the pic, I guess??

I can't tell if you have a make up valve or not based on the equipment pad pic.. Looks like it might be hard to do, but post a couple more pics of the pad from different angles.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim...In a way, I'm trying to do both. I'd like to keep a minimum amount of flow going over the spillway because it looks nicer in general, but also because when there is no water flowing over the ledge, the AZ sun bakes in any residue left behind.

 

[Jimrahbe]

fun,

I don't see a normal make up valve, but what is the blue valve that is shut off do..??

If you watch your CSI it will help with scale, but tougher to do in AZ..

Do you test your own pool water? If so what is your current CSI? What are the other numbers...

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
Salt
Temp

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ifunlisted]

The little blue valve is the aerator. It's a seldom used device that works like a sprinkler...the idea is that it will help cool down the water if you run it overnight (for hot climates).

I haven't ventured into testing CSI or any other levels (yet), but I can tell you my chlorinator sends me daily alerts that I have very low salt. That's despite adding two bags and having a cloudy pool with a layer of salt dust on the bottom. I haven't gotten into that issue, but it's on my list

 

[KDpoolguy]

Great setup! Once I saw the deep blue sky in your pic, I knew you were a fellow desert dweller. The best part of desert pool living, right?

I’m battling a TA issue in my pool, after tackling & correcting a similar spillway issue that caused spikes in PH. I didn’t watch the TA and now I’m slowly adding acid every day to get the TA back in Line (tough in summer!). It wasn’t a big issue with previous pools with grade level spas, but with elevated spas, there seems to be more room/height to aerate and increase the Ph.

Anyway,s let’s get back to you. I see what Jim sees, the calcium marks. I always got out the pumice stone and got the kids to play the ‘scrape the tiles’ game . Try it, pumice stone is like magic to the kids. Managing the constituent components of CSI, mainly PH & TA and you’ll find it’ll all take care of itself. Well managed PH will not leave the calcium marks like you see mineral water beads on a car’s finish in hot sun. It can be managed. I always like to start at 1 and have a beadblast of the pebble/tile to remove all prior sins, and show off years later that well managed pH leaves no nasty calcium on the pool line.

I have no pool line tile. Only pebble lips (hate it &love it) so the pumice is not an option anymore unless I want bloody knuckles.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Fun,

If the aerator is in the spa, you could possibly modify it to provide a spillover..

I really doubt whatever is in the bottom of your pool is salt.

When was the last time you visually inspected or cleaned your cell for scale?

I almost never add salt based upon what the IC40 reports... I double check with a salt test kit first. I use the Taylor K-1766... If my actual salt level is more 700 ppm different from the salt level reported by the cell, I install a new Flow Switch assembly. This is a pretty common problem with the IC40. Also, low reported salt is one of the first signs of a failing cell, but not something I'd worry about unless your cell is older than 4 or 5 years old.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ifunlisted]

Fun,

If the aerator is in the spa, you could possibly modify it to provide a spillover..

I really doubt whatever is in the bottom of your pool is salt.

When was the last time you visually inspected or cleaned your cell for scale?

I almost never add salt based upon what the IC40 reports... I double check with a salt test kit first. I use the Taylor K-1766... If my actual salt level is more 700 ppm different from the salt level reported by the cell, I install a new Flow Switch assembly. This is a pretty common problem with the IC40. Also, low reported salt is one of the first signs of a failing cell, but not something I'd worry about unless your cell is older than 4 or 5 years old.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Good to know... The salt cell was just just cleaned a few weeks ago and the guy said it looked fine, but I have no idea how old it is (we've only been in the house 2 yrs). I'll definitely look into installing a new flow switch because that constantly triggers Low Flow alerts even at moderately high flow rates. I'm also going to pick up a test kit in the near future, I just recently started checking into the various options...I'll put the K-1766 on my list Thanks again!!

 

[ifunlisted]

Great setup! Once I saw the deep blue sky in your pic, I knew you were a fellow desert dweller. The best part of desert pool living, right?

I’m battling a TA issue in my pool, after tackling & correcting a similar spillway issue that caused spikes in PH. I didn’t watch the TA and now I’m slowly adding acid every day to get the TA back in Line (tough in summer!). It wasn’t a big issue with previous pools with grade level spas, but with elevated spas, there seems to be more room/height to aerate and increase the Ph.

Anyway,s let’s get back to you. I see what Jim sees, the calcium marks. I always got out the pumice stone and got the kids to play the ‘scrape the tiles’ game . Try it, pumice stone is like magic to the kids. Managing the constituent components of CSI, mainly PH & TA and you’ll find it’ll all take care of itself. Well managed PH will not leave the calcium marks like you see mineral water beads on a car’s finish in hot sun. It can be managed. I always like to start at 1 and have a beadblast of the pebble/tile to remove all prior sins, and show off years later that well managed pH leaves no nasty calcium on the pool line.

I have no pool line tile. Only pebble lips (hate it &love it) so the pumice is not an option anymore unless I want bloody knuckles.

Ha!! Yeah I’ve gone through a couple pumice sticks already, and that’s after having the pool fully drained and acid blasted a couple months ago. We have a pool guy but I’d like to learn more about various functions and levels so I can stay on top of things like that. So now, since you opened yourself up for it, here are a few questions

1) Is there a guideline or good online resource for proper testing methods, recommended levels, etc?

2) Do you recommend any particular testing product(s)... standard kits vs electronic kits?

3a) How do you keep your spa water level up over the edge of the spillway?
3b) Do you schedule your Spillway function to run throughout the day?
3c) Do you have your return valve set to stay open a bit during the Pool function (or other) so there’s a small supply of water continuously feeding the spa?

In the meantime I’ll google CSI & TA so I at least know what they are haha!!

 

[mknauss]

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Why do you want to keep your spillway at the edge? Run it a couple times per day as I stated earlier in the thread. That will reduce your pH rise while maintaining the chlorination in the spa.

You should not ever have to clean your SWCG. By properly maintaining our pool water chemistry, scale should not build up on the plates in the cell.

 

[KDpoolguy]

1) Is there a guideline or good online resource for proper testing methods, recommended levels, etc?
2) Do you recommend any particular testing product(s)... standard kits vs electronic kits?

Marty’s got you squared away with the TFP links. Likely your pool guy is only testing pH, and not total Alkalinity (TA). If your TA is above 100, you’ll burn thru acid and increase likelihood of mineral deposits. Get a TF100 kit & salt test as mentioned. The el electric PH testers were always difficult to calibrate, IMHO stick with reagent drop testers.

3a) How do you keep your spa water level up over the edge of the spillway...
3b) Do you schedule your Spillway function to run throughout the day?

I’ll ask what Marty did, why? Is it to have the ‘waterfall’ feature? If so that’s cool, but with Spillway automation you can control it at will.
Or is the issue that your spa water level is falling ?!? If so, let’s discuss, because that’s a check valve malfunctioning.

3b) Do you schedule your Spillway function to run throughout the day?
3c) Do you have your return valve set to stay open a bit during the Pool function (or other) so there’s a small supply of water continuously feeding the spa?

I have a Makeup bypass and Pentair Automation also and do a 2 hr run of spillover every night for spa filtering/chlorination. If I have guests to show off, or I’m swimming I can turn the makeup valve and have a small amount come over the Spillway for the ‘fountain’ while also filtering the pool. Since you have a actuator on your return valve, I’d avoid adjusting it to have it open for spa flow, they’re designed for only on/off, not percentage flow rates—if that makes sense? Again, limiting Spillway flow equals stable PH equals less mineral deposits. I have ScreenLogic now, (let’s me control automation with the phone) and I can quickly click ‘Spillway’ and voila, water comes over the Spillway.

I now have my automation linked to my Alexa/Echo Dots so I just say ‘Alexa, tell Pentair to turn on the Spillway’ and in 20 seconds I can see the waterfall from my office window!! Cool!

 

[ifunlisted]

Marty’s got you squared away with the TFP links. Likely your pool guy is only testing pH, and not total Alkalinity (TA). If your TA is above 100, you’ll burn thru acid and increase likelihood of mineral deposits. Get a TF100 kit & salt test as mentioned. The el electric PH testers were always difficult to calibrate, IMHO stick with reagent drop testers.



I’ll ask what Marty did, why? Is it to have the ‘waterfall’ feature? If so that’s cool, but with Spillway automation you can control it at will.
Or is the issue that your spa water level is falling ?!? If so, let’s discuss, because that’s a check valve malfunctioning.





I have a Makeup bypass and Pentair Automation also and do a 2 hr run of spillover every night for spa filtering/chlorination. If I have guests to show off, or I’m swimming I can turn the makeup valve and have a small amount come over the Spillway for the ‘fountain’ while also filtering the pool. Since you have a actuator on your return valve, I’d avoid adjusting it to have it open for spa flow, they’re designed for only on/off, not percentage flow rates—if that makes sense? Again, limiting Spillway flow equals stable PH equals less mineral deposits. I have ScreenLogic now, (let’s me control automation with the phone) and I can quickly click ‘Spillway’ and voila, water comes over the Spillway.

I now have my automation linked to my Alexa/Echo Dots so I just say ‘Alexa, tell Pentair to turn on the Spillway’ and in 20 seconds I can see the waterfall from my office window!! Cool!

Sorry for the delay... this is all great stuff!! I was trying to keep the spa water level up mainly because of the sun baking calcium or salt (or whatever it is) onto the top and side of the spillway, but also to have a constant "infinity" edge effect. With the advice from you guys though, I just sheduled it to run a few times per day. The water level itself isn't an issue, it holds within an inch of the spillway. I also put the actuator back on to full 180 on/off. So my next step is to get a test kit.

 

[robertson058]

Option 2 is what you want. You want to circulate pool water through the spa a couple times per day to keep the spa water chlorinated. Start with two 30 minute periods. Space them apart by several hours.

If you continuously run the spillway when running your pump, you are aerating the water and your pH will rise much quicker.

Great. Thank you.

 

[KDpoolguy]

I was trying to keep the spa water level up mainly because of the sun baking calcium or salt (or whatever it is) onto the top and side of the spillway.

Awesome, sounds like you’re back on track. Yeah, I know it seems unusual the way Ph affects the mineral/calcium deposits. Most would think that maintaining water level will stop the pool-line ring of white calcium buildup, but if you keep you PH consistently between 7.4-7.8 you should never have the deposits no matter if the water level drops.

 

[ifunlisted]

That's awesome. I'm picking up a test kit today, then I'll start researching chemicals; what to use, when to use, how to use, where to use.

 

[mknauss]

That's awesome. I'm picking up a test kit today, then I'll start researching chemicals; what to use, when to use, how to use, where to use.

It is not likely you will find a proper test kit in a store.
Order a TF-100
The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006-C. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want.
I also have the Speedstir. It makes testing much easier.

 

[ifunlisted]

It is not likely you will find a proper test kit in a store.
Order a TF-100
The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006-C. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want.
I also have the Speedstir. It makes testing much easier.

Amazon it is

 

[mknauss]

Best value is the TF100. You can get it through Amazon, but it is less expensive from TFTestkits.net