Smart Switch - LED Pool Lights - No Neutral

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RickTFP

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Jun 3, 2020
7
San Diego, CA
Hi folks,

Looking for some advice with a smart switch selection and install. My ultimate objective is to turn on my pool and spa lights with a fixed schedule. It is a high want to have the flexibility to control each light with an independent switch in case I only want to light up the spa for example. I currently have 2 standard toggle switches with no neutral. The lights are connected to GFCI.

I recently installed 2 LED pool lights, one for the spa and one for the pool. The spa light is 120V and 6W; the pool light is 120V and 35W. I was about ready to purchase the GE CYNC until I read that it requires a minimum of 15W. If less than 15W, GE recommends installing an included bulb adapter.

1) Are there any issues you see if I go down this route of using two GE CYNC switches and using the bulb adapter for the spa light?
2) My 2nd option is to go with two Lutron no neutral switches (PD-6WCL), but I lack the confidence that they will work with my Pureline LED lights.
3) Do you have any other suggestions that I have not considered?

Thanks

GE CYNC: GE CYNC Smart Switch, No Neutral Wire Required, On-Off Paddle Style with Bluetooth and 2.4 GHz WiFi, Alexa and Google Home Compatible without a Hub...
 
I'd be wary of a dimmer switch like the Lutron as well. You can always try it and see if it works.

This switch has a 5w minimum - might be worth checking out as well.

moeshouse.com

Smart Light Switch No Neutral|Best Buy WiFi Wall White US Switches

MOES white push button single pole smart light switch no neutral wire required.Minimum load as 5W for no lighting flash.Due to no capacitor, no more worry about the noise when sleep.Fast install and control.
moeshouse.com moeshouse.com
 
Thanks for the good options thus far.

1) Pulling a neutral? This is my last resort because based on my limited experience and confidence, I would need to call in an electrician. I like to DIY as much as possible to keep costs low and this is one thing I have low confidence in being able to pull off myself.
2) Clarification wanted for the Intermatic. Does this solution imply that the circuit is not driving the switch, but the battery is driving the switch? Once the schedule hits it's start and stop, the battery energizes the switch which in turn livens the circuit to the pool light?

It looks like we have three contenders thus far ... 1) GE CYNC with bulb adapter, 2) MOES with 5W minimum, or 3) Intermatic with battery. Are all three solutions workable? Is one recommended over the other?

Intermatic makes me feel good because it seems like a robust brand and company for an outdoor applications such as this. Seems to be the most expensive option of the three at $60 per switch. It lacks the simplicity of a traditional toggle or being driven by an app.
GE CYNC gives me confidence with the brand, but not liking the idea of requiring a bulb adapter. If nobody has concerns with the bulb adapter, this might be my #1 choice.
MOES is a brand that I have not heard of until recently. As such, I have no perspective when it comes to reliability. With 5W being it's minimum load and my spa light running at 6W, I don't know if I will run into a margin issue.

Your thoughts are much appreciated!
 
RickTFP said:
Pulling a neutral? This is my last resort because based on my limited experience and confidence, I would need to call in an electrician. I like to DIY as much as possible to keep costs low and this is one thing I have low confidence in being able to pull off myself.
Click to expand...
What is the location of the gfci vs the switch? Distance?
Additional thoughts to consider:
1. Confirm the switch location receives wifi signal (is it indoors or outdoors)
2. If wifi signal reaches the location, is the enclosure pvc or metal? If metal this may impede an already weak signal
3. Since it will be app Controlled, is it possible to place the switch at the equipment pad/next to the gfci so as to be able to use a cheaper more reliable switch with neutral (I helped someone do this earlier in the year, ill look for the thread)
 
RickTFP said:
2) Clarification wanted for the Intermatic. Does this solution imply that the circuit is not driving the switch, but the battery is driving the switch? Once the schedule hits it's start and stop, the battery energizes the switch which in turn livens the circuit to the pool light?
Click to expand...

I think you understand it. No neutral timer switches can operate one of two ways.
1) run a minimal amount of current (essentially like a dimmer switch set to on but very very low output) through the light circuit in order to keep the timer powered. This can result in flickering led’s, etc.
2). Run the timer on battery power. In this case, the switch is actually off when its turned off, not just set to very very low.

The intermatic i linked to uses battery power for the timer. It’s definitely not the only brand or model out there to do it this way. It can be hard to sort through the technical documentation to figure out how a particular switch works. Generally any switch which requires a minimum load to the circuit will be the dimmer type. If it takes a battery, it’s probably the battery type (though some might use batteries just to maintain the programming in case of power outage)

Ive had some exterior lights on that particular intermatic switch for a few years and have yet to change the battery. It is expensive and has a lot of programming features (dusk to dawn settings that change by seasons etc). With some looking around i think you could find a less expensive battery option which has simpler timer features.

Hope that helps
 
Ahultin said:
What is the location of the gfci vs the switch? Distance?
Additional thoughts to consider:
1. Confirm the switch location receives wifi signal (is it indoors or outdoors)
2. If wifi signal reaches the location, is the enclosure pvc or metal? If metal this may impede an already weak signal
3. Since it will be app Controlled, is it possible to place the switch at the equipment pad/next to the gfci so as to be able to use a cheaper more reliable switch with neutral (I helped someone do this earlier in the year, ill look for the thread)
Click to expand...
The GFCI is a good 40' or so from the switch circling around the perimeter of the house.

1. The switch location is about 15' from my wifi router with the router being relatively strong.
2. I plan to go with a metal enclosure, but would go with plastic if you all thought it would maintain the same level of safety and weatherproofing. I assume we are good from a safety standpoint provided that I connect the switches to ground (which I will do regardless).
3. As I was getting ready to challenge this idea as not being a workable solution for me, it got me thinking. In this scenario, it sounds like I would leave my mechanical switches in place. They would always be turned on. Then I would install a single smart switch near the GFCI that would be able to utilize the neutral. My app would activate the smart switch and make the circuit live. And If I wanted to, I can turn off one of the lights with the mechanical switch if I preferred. Sound about right?
 
RickTFP said:
2. I plan to go with a metal enclosure, but would go with plastic if you all thought it would maintain the same level of safety and weatherproofing. I assume we are good from a safety standpoint provided that I connect the switches to ground (which I will do regardless).
Click to expand...

Plastic enclosures are preferred for outdoor use. They don't rust the way a metal enclosure will over time. Just get a plastic enclosure that is properly weather rated.
 

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Thanks for all the feedback folks. I am heavily leaning towards this latter option of installing a neutral-based Smart switch next to my GFCI and leaving my mechanical non-neutral switches alone. I need to research more about what switch to use, but I recall reading good things here about the TP-Link Kasa. I'll install a new plastic-based 2-gang enclosure and have the switch installed side-by-side with the GFCI outlet. I feel compelled to install a new GFCI outlet while I'm in the process because the outlet is showing it's age.

I'll circle back with my final solution and how it fares out.
 
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RickTFP said:
I need to research more about what switch to use, but I recall reading good things here about the TP-Link Kasa
Click to expand...
I use leviton smart switches/outlets and have had good luck with them but I also hear great things about tp-link plus they are less expensive.
This thread was similar to what you will end up with, with you having the added switched leg running to your mechanical switches.
Post in thread 'Pool light stopped working years ago. Read on...' Pool light stopped working years ago. Read on...
 
RickTFP said:
Thanks for all the feedback folks. I am heavily leaning towards this latter option of installing a neutral-based Smart switch next to my GFCI and leaving my mechanical non-neutral switches alone. I need to research more about what switch to use, but I recall reading good things here about the TP-Link Kasa. I'll install a new plastic-based 2-gang enclosure and have the switch installed side-by-side with the GFCI outlet. I feel compelled to install a new GFCI outlet while I'm in the process because the outlet is showing it's age.

I'll circle back with my final solution and how it fares out.
Click to expand...
would love to see pictures when you are done. I am not understanding exactly how you are adding a switch next to a CFCI outlet, but it probably because I just don't understand the whole thing. I am looking to do something similar but only to control one pool light (no spa).
 
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