Secret to getting spa blower to work in a spa/pool system?

[pcm2a]

I have a spa that spills over into the pool, except when in spa mode. I have never figured out how to get the blower to work 100% of the time. If I switch to spa mode, have the pool pump and the spa pump on then cut on the blower most of the time I do not see it blow the water past the check valve. When this occurs after a few minutes it shuts off due to overheating. 20% of the time it does push the water out and works fine after a few minutes. I assume that when the two pumps are pumping air to the jets and towards the blower it cannot force air past. I have taken the blower off and it is pushing out a tremendous amount of air, when it works it works great.

I have also tried a few other combinations with no luck as of yet:

Pool and spa pump on then turn blower on, doesn't blow air past check valve, shuts off after a few minutes.

Pool and spa pump off then turn blower on (leaving both pumps off), always blows air past check valve, no air comes out of the jets, shuts off after a few minutes.

Update:

Tried some other combos:
Pool/Spa pump off, turn on blower, wait 30 seconds, turn on pool pump, nothing.
Pool/Spa pump off, turn on blower, wait 30 seconds, turn on spa pump, nothing.
Pool/Spa pump off, turn on blower, wait 30 seconds, turn on pool pump and spa pump, nothing.

 

[mas985]

Did the blower ever work properly?

 

[pcm2a]

Maybe? When we bought the home 3 months ago the inspector ran it and it worked. A few days later the pool repair guy came to give me a run through, he either built the system or has been the one to work on it since it was built. It worked for him. After that I used it a maybe twice over the following weeks before it started messing up.

One thing that might be important is until I started posting on here I was switching to spa mode, turning the pool pump off, turning the spa pump on then then turning the blower on. I didn't know the pool pump was supposed to stay on also. I don't know if that combination could have damaged the blower. All of the foam for filtering under the blower is gone. I took the top off of the blower and the foam is still on the inside but it is extremely brittle. I assume the blower is really old.

I can pull the blower off, turn it on and put my hand in front of it. A lot of air is coming out but I have nothing to compare the amount of air to.

 

[mas985]

One thing that might be important is until I started posting on here I was switching to spa mode, turning the pool pump off, turning the spa pump on then then turning the blower on. I didn't know the pool pump was supposed to stay on also. I don't know if that combination could have damaged the blower. All of the foam for filtering under the blower is gone. I took the top off of the blower and the foam is still on the inside but it is extremely brittle. I assume the blower is really old.

Normally the pool pump doesn't need to be on unless you are trying to heat the pool but it depends on how it was plumbed. Generally, the spa pump just powers the spa venturi jets which is what the blower is connected to so technically only that pump really needs to be on.

Can you post a picture of the entire pad plumbing and equipment?

 

[pcm2a]

That makes sense to me, thanks for the tip. When I first moved in and was using it with the spa + blower the amount of air coming out of the jets is great. You are also correct that the heater only works if I have the pool pump on, something I found out just a few days ago on here.

 

[mas985]

So when you run the spa jets (left pump) with the blower, do you see any air bubbles coming out of the spa jets?

Also, how many spa jets do you have?

What is the HP rating of the jet pump?

 

[pcm2a]

Century 1.0 HP spa pump, Century 1.5 HP pool pump, 6 spa jets. Water comes out of all 6 jets using with the spa or pool pump. When the blower works air comes out of all 6 jets but not the same amount of air, two in the middle get the most and ones farther around have a little less power.

When you turn on the spa jets and then turn on the blower you get a big gust of bubbles lasting from 1-3 seconds and then not much else. If you turn the blower off and back on you do not get another big gust. If I turn the pump and blower off for a minute and fire it all back up it will give another gust. I can try to get a video of it if that would be helpful.

 

[mas985]

First, a 1 HP jet pump, especially a SuperPump is probably way too small for a 6 spa jets unless those are really low flow jets. Did you put in that pump or was it already there?

You might try removing all the jets nozzles with a long socket wrench (deep within the spa wall) and flush the lines to make sure the lines are free from debris. At the same time, measure the orifice of the nozzle to see what size jets those are so we can determine if a different pump is needed.

The other pump looks like a Northstar which, if truly a 1.5 HP would be large enough for 6 spa jets. That may be why they plumbed the return of that pump into the spa jet pump and it probably requires both pumps on to get the jets to work. They really should have swapped those pumps.

But in spa mode, with the main pump directed into the suction of the jet pump (i.e. pool mode off) and both pumps running, does it work any better?

 

[pcm2a]

All of the pumps are Century brand and all of the pumps came with the house. My pool cleaning guy says they aren't very old but I can't see a date on any of the labels. If the pumps were swapped then in pool mode you would have a 1.0hp pump going to the spa and 3 pool jets.

If the line was clogged would water be coming out of the jets so well? It seems like if air couldn't make it through then neither could water.

In spa mode, with both pumps on there is a lot of water movement through the jets. I just tested it and when I turned the blower on I could see the water be pushed past the check valve but no air made it into the spa. It shut off after about 2 minutes. Video of the blower turning on at the check valve: Check valve - YouTube

The jets look like this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sjAAAOSwrddY8URL/s-l300.jpg With the right tool wouldn't the jets just unscrew from the outside?

 

[mas985]

All of the pumps are Century brand and all of the pumps came with the house. My pool cleaning guy says they aren't very old but I can't see a date on any of the labels.

That is the motor manufacture. All the pumps are Hayward. I can tell by the design.

If the pumps were swapped then in pool mode you would have a 1.0hp pump going to the spa and 3 pool jets.

Maybe I am confused. The pump on the left in the picture, which is the spa jet pump, is the 1.0 HP correct? The pump on the right connected to the filter is the pool/spa circulation pump and that one is 1.5 HP correct?

The jets look like this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sjAAAOSwrddY8URL/s-l300.jpg With the right tool wouldn't the jets just unscrew from the outside?

This is not the spa jet. That is call a spinner and is just an external fitting. The spa jet is behind that fitting and yes you can remove that by unscrewing it. But to flush out the lines, you need to remove the spa jets.


Here is how a spa jet works:

 

[pcm2a]

Thanks for the image, that explains a whole lot on how the air and the water come together. I will try to remove one of the external fittings. I'm not sure what size or length socket is needed once i get that out.

The pump on the left is the spa pump (1.0hp) and the pump on the far right connected to the filter is the pool pump (1.5hp).

 

[mas985]

The pump on the left is the spa pump (1.0hp) and the pump on the far right connected to the filter is the pool pump (1.5hp).

The larger pump really should be on the spa jets because they need the higher head and flow rates that only a larger pump can produce. Running the two pumps in series, the way it is plumbed now, is not really the best way to operate a spa. That is likely the issue and probably not a plugged jet but it wouldn't hurt to flush the lines anyway.

To remove the spa jets, use a long extension socket wrench with a 9/16" socket. Draining the spa to the pool makes it easier to do.

 

[pcm2a]

I'm not sure how to drain the spa into the pool now that I have put a check valve in place to prevent that from happening. I can now turn off the pump on a timer to save money without it draining out.

 

[mas985]

Sorry, a couple more questions (before removing the spa jets):

Have you cleaned the sand filter recently? What is the filter pressure now and what is it just after the filter is clean?

Have you cleaned out all the pump baskets and skimmers of debris?

 

[pcm2a]

I have a pool guy that comes once a week to check levels and clean everything. He cleaned the sand filter last Wednesday along with the skimmers, barely any leaves in them currently. The pressure right now is in between 19/20 and the little glass thing to check for debris is clear. I don't know if it matters but I took that reading while running both spa and pool pumps in spa mode.

 

[mas985]

I don't know if it matters but I took that reading while running both spa and pool pumps in spa mode.

That was exactly what I was looking for.

So you said before that you are getting strong flow out of all 6 jets and it is just the bubbles aren't there correct?

If so, it might be more likely the air line is clogged which of course is more difficult to clear.

Also, have you ever tried running in spa mode without the blower attached to the air line?

All of the foam for filtering under the blower is gone.

I just saw this quote. This may have ended up in the air pipe.

 

[pcm2a]

It is just the bubbles that are missing (making it a big bubbly mess). Water flow seems great out of all 6 of the jets with both pumps on, although they are not all the same exact strength.

What do you mean by running without the blower attached to the air line? The blower (pictured behind the sand filter) sits on top a pvc pipe and is a snug fit but is not bolted on, I can pull it off. I have also checked all around it to make sure extra air isn't blowing out around the fitting. Down at the ground is a check valve and it is filled up with water to the check valve. When I cut the blower on I can see the air push the check valve open and the water be blown down into the ground. Since the check valve is closed with water against it I'm not sure what having the blower off of the pipe would do.

 

[mas985]

Ok, the only thing that makes sense is that the blower foam ended up in the air pipe somehow. If game, there might be a way to try and clear that line.

You would need to remove all 6 jet exterior fittings (not nozzles) and plug the pipe holes in the spa with something like this:

Shop Sioux Chief 10-Pack 1-1/2-in dia PVC Pipe Plug Fitting at Lowes.com

But you need to measure the pipe hole diameter to get the correct ones.

Then you need to remove the blower from the air pipe and remove the check valve clear cover and flapper.

Then turn on the jet pump and anything that is in the air pipe should get back flushed out of the air pipe. Just note that a lot of water is going to come out of that pipe so you might want to protect the blower if it is on the ground next to it.

 

[pcm2a]

With the check valve cover off won't all of the water/debris come out at that point out onto the ground? Taking the blower off is just a precaution I assume in case anything makes it up that high.

Will a PVC plug work the same as what you linked: Shop LASCO 1-1/2-in Dia PVC Sch 40 Plug at Lowes.com

How would I know when it has ran long enough to blow all of the debris out? If successful then I would need to replace all of that foam, it is not in good condition.

Would channel locks be the correct tool to remove the jet fittings?

 

[mas985]

With the check valve cover off won't all of the water/debris come out at that point out onto the ground?

Some of it will. Some will probably make it to the top just due to momentum.

Will a PVC plug work the same as what you linked: Shop LASCO 1-1/2-in Dia PVC Sch 40 Plug at Lowes.com

Yes

How would I know when it has ran long enough to blow all of the debris out? If successful then I would need to replace all of that foam, it is not in good condition.

Probably less than 30 sec. It should be fairly quick but wait if you start to see stuff come out to make sure all of it comes out.

Yes definitely replace the foam. More than likely it deteriorated and was sucked into the blower. But it might have just fallen away too but without any foam to filter out the debris, something else might have got sucked in.

This is all a bit of speculation but about the only thing that really fits.