Rebuilding Polaris PB4-60 Pump, questions

[JSnake Repair]

This pump, like much of everything else in my pool setup, has not been well cared for. The impeller has recently broken off (due to a combination of debris getting in from a cracked filter manifold as well as highly chlorinated water resting inside the pump cavity weakening the material) and needed replacement. Purchased the correct part (new style) and was told to replace the PS-1000 seal as well, so purchased that too. The pump is also 'squealing' so I decided it will unfortunately mean replacing the internal bearings+lubricant. Some questions:

1. I found this ripped foam washer/cushion sitting inside the Motor Bracket...can't seem to find it in any of the part diagrams. Where does it go, and is it needed? edit: it's a Water Slinger, had to purchase a similar one from a different model.
2. The PS-1000 seal that I purchased is a loose fit...I presume I instead need a 3/4" seal as this gap is intolerable? Can someone link the correct part? The Top Spring Seal also appears to be different... edit: PS-1000 part was recommended for primary Pentair pump, not this one. Purchasing 3/4" seal
3. Will mild rust stains on the shaft be an issue? It is smooth and uniform to the touch. edit: going to use super fine steel wool on it and then call it a day
4. The bottom of the body has considerable rusting...but it appears mostly cosmetic; still solid, and top of unit is fine. I intend to proceed with repair unless someone tells me that this could explode at any moment (clearly not so, but I'll listen) edit: going to brush off loose rust and spray paint affected area with Rustoleum Flat Protective Enamel
5. Following a PoolZoom Rebuild Guide (that doesn't open up the actual motor) as well as a comprehensive LS YT Video; the poolroom guide mentions adhering the top spring seal with silicone (Under the 'Installing The New Shaft Seal' section). Is this necessary? Edit: Will put a touch of silicone, why not

Going to buy 6203-2RS Bearings, this Bearing Removal Tool, and some kind of lubricant for the bearings.

6. Is '2/3 Jaw | 6-1/4" Spread | 5-1/2" Reach' enough to remove the bearings? edit: I really hope so, that's what I have
7. What lubricant do I buy?? edit: not even sure lubricant is needed, have some Quicksilver Marine Grease 2-4-C w/ PTFE I will put in the bearing socket

 

[Texas Splash]

This may be old business by now as I suspect you've probably completed the rebuild, but I came across your post and wanted to follow up. Did you get everything back together?

 

[JSnake Repair]

This may be old business by now as I suspect you've probably completed the rebuild, but I came across your post and wanted to follow up. Did you get everything back together?

No...waiting on one last part to arrive. I have added updates to all my questions...many I've had to 'answer' myself. If you have any further insight to add it would be appreciated.

 

[Texas Splash]

@1poolman1 might be able to clarify your remaining notes above.

 

[1poolman1]

@1poolman1 might be able to clarify your remaining notes above.

If the PS-1000 seal is loose the bracket is melted and needs to be replaced. The rust on that motor is from the inside out as that pump has run dry at some point allowing water to be pumped to the inside, the impeller and bracket/sealplate have both melted, and all three need to be replaced along with the seal and O ring. Have seen it way too many times and hate to see someone spend money and time on a repair that won't last.

 

[JSnake Repair]

If the PS-1000 seal is loose the bracket is melted and needs to be replaced. The rust on that motor is from the inside out as that pump has run dry at some point allowing water to be pumped to the inside, the impeller and bracket/sealplate have both melted, and all three need to be replaced along with the seal and O ring. Have seen it way too many times and hate to see someone spend money and time on a repair that won't last.

My entire setup was leaking throughout previously. Is it possible that it was merely this leaking water that got into the heat dissipation vents and rusted the motor body 'from the inside out'?

It is the same story for the Pentair Challenger pump I am also disassembling...but in that case the impeller locking screw was replaced with a non-standard panhead-flathead bolt (don't have a screwdriver large enough; haven't gotten past it yet).

Both of these pumps worked well while in service...

In any case, the PB4-60 is having the seal and impeller (completely broken; debris got in from cracked filter manifold and setup allowed highly chlorinated water to settle in pump volute weakening the integrity) replaced. The pump seal/back plate is melted...but is this enough of an issue?

 

[1poolman1]

My entire setup was leaking throughout previously. Is it possible that it was merely this leaking water that got into the heat dissipation vents and rusted the motor body 'from the inside out'?

It is the same story for the Pentair Challenger pump I am also disassembling...but in that case the impeller locking screw was replaced with a non-standard panhead-flathead bolt (don't have a screwdriver large enough).

Both of these pumps worked well while in service...

In any case, the PB4-60 is having the seal and impeller (completely broken; debris got in from cracked filter manifold and setup allowed highly chlorinated water to settle in pump volute weakening the integrity) replaced. The pump seal/back plate is melted...but is this enough of an issue?

The impeller screw in a Challenger is a standard 5/16" wrench left-hand threaded bolt, not the same as use in other pumps (see image).
Where is the "highly chlorinated" water coming from? It takes a huge amount of chlorine a long time to damage the plastics used to move chlorinated water in pool equipment. It is possible that water leaking could have been pulled into the motor through the ventilation vents, but a melted impeller and bracket are more likely. Yes, if either, or both, the bracket and impeller are melted that will allow the pump to leak both at the seal face and everywhere else the seal should stop water. Despite being "just plastic," these are precision molded parts that have tight tolerances so that water will not leak, either static, and especially not under pressure. "Your pool, your money, your time, your choice."

 

[JSnake Repair]

The impeller screw in a Challenger is a standard 5/16" wrench left-hand threaded bolt, not the same as use in other pumps (see image).
Where is the "highly chlorinated" water coming from? It takes a huge amount of chlorine a long time to damage the plastics used to move chlorinated water in pool equipment. It is possible that water leaking could have been pulled into the motor through the ventilation vents, but a melted impeller and bracket are more likely. Yes, if either, or both, the bracket and impeller are melted that will allow the pump to leak both at the seal face and everywhere else the seal should stop water. Despite being "just plastic," these are precision molded parts that have tight tolerances so that water will not leak, either static, and especially not under pressure. "Your pool, your money, your time, your choice."
View attachment 586574

Yes, that is the bolt I have purchased to replace the current bolt of unknown origin...Well fine, then for both this PB4-60 and Pentair Challenger HP basically everything except the motors and pump stands are being replaced at this point (with new bearings on motors as well). It is my understanding that these pump motors are relatively universal in size, so they may replaced in the future as well. Even bought proper (EXPENSIVE) union kit for the Pentair...they previously used threaded 2" PVC cemented to elbows going straight into both pump ends previously...it was an absolute mess when time to remove.

If you recall, I am the same poor soul from this post, where you assured me the impeller broke from 'chlorine soup' resting in the booster pump volute (further discussion on that post revealed lots of debris getting to the pump, assisting in its destruction). I will also be employing a Check Valve in conjunction with a W3AQR15 chlorinator to prevent this from happening again (unsure why a check valve wasn't recommended initially, as I think that may have replaced the need for a chlorinator all together -- at least from the standpoint of preserving equipment).

I am gearing up for the big install very soon...would appreciate any of your insight in my build post here.

 

[1poolman1]

Yes, that is the bolt I have purchased to replace the current bolt of unknown origin...Well fine, then for both this PB4-60 and Pentair Challenger HP basically everything except the motors and pump stands are being replaced at this point (with new bearings on motors as well). It is my understanding that these pump motors are relatively universal in size, so they may replaced in the future as well. Even bought proper (EXPENSIVE) union kit for the Pentair...they previously used threaded 2" PVC cemented to elbows going straight into both pump ends previously...it was an absolute mess when time to remove.

If you recall, I am the same poor soul from this post, where you assured me the impeller broke from 'chlorine soup' resting in the booster pump volute (further discussion on that post revealed lots of debris getting to the pump, assisting in its destruction). I will also be employing a Check Valve in conjunction with a W3AQR15 chlorinator to prevent this from happening again (unsure why a check valve wasn't recommended initially, as I think that may have replaced the need for a chlorinator all together -- at least from the standpoint of preserving equipment).

I am gearing up for the big install very soon...would appreciate any of your insight in my build post here.

That was my guess, a tab feeder, but no I didn't look for other posts. Its more than just the higher concentration of chlorine that causes that kind of destruction. It is also the acidic component that weakens the spring on the seal which causes a seal to leak, damages motor shafts, attacks the brass insert in an impeller, ruins motors, damages plastics, etc., etc. It even causes damage to the internal part of the tube that holds the tablets.
There is no particular need for a check valve (other than your peace of mind) with an SWG as they only produce chlorine with the pump running and it will be pushed into the pool (if properly wire/installed). The concentration of chlorine while it is being produced is very minimal when mixed with all the water flowing, won't damage equipment, and doesn't flow backward through the plumbing.

 

[JSnake Repair]

That was my guess, a tab feeder, but no I didn't look for other posts. Its more than just the higher concentration of chlorine that causes that kind of destruction. It is also the acidic component that weakens the spring on the seal which causes a seal to leak, damages motor shafts, attacks the brass insert in an impeller, ruins motors, damages plastics, etc., etc. It even causes damage to the internal part of the tube that holds the tablets.
There is no particular need for a check valve (other than your peace of mind) with an SWG as they only produce chlorine with the pump running and it will be pushed into the pool (if properly wire/installed). The concentration of chlorine while it is being produced is very minimal when mixed with all the water flowing, won't damage equipment, and doesn't flow backward through the plumbing.

Understood. Was reading Jandy's homepage and they said a Check Valve is also useful for a chlorinator...which I thought was a stretch, but I'd really like this to be one and done (although it likely won't).

I've got one last part for you to assess (that hasn't already been/going to be replaced). This PB4-60 Volute...it's 'pristine' save for some wear on the very lip of wear the impeller meets, threads are good (and obviously, it's no longer black/as strong as it should be from the chlorine)...Problem, or not?

 

[1poolman1]

Understood. Was reading Jandy's homepage and they said a Check Valve is also useful for a chlorinator...which I thought was a stretch, but I'd really like this to be one and done (although it likely won't).

I've got one last part for you to assess (that hasn't already been/going to be replaced). This PB4-60 Volute...it's 'pristine' save for some wear on the very lip of wear the impeller meets, threads are good (and obviously, it's no longer black/as strong as it should be from the chlorine)...Problem, or not?

As long as there are no cracks, splits, pin holes, and the threads are good, I have almost never had to replace a volute on those pumps. I have seen them get warped from the heat of a pump running dry, but if that is the case and it leaks it is an easy repair.

 

[JSnake Repair]

As long as there are no cracks, splits, pin holes, and the threads are good, I have almost never had to replace a volute on those pumps. I have seen them get warped from the heat of a pump running dry, but if that is the case and it leaks it is an easy repair.

Alright, so I managed to get the aftermarket bolt off using a high-torque drill (was on there TIGHT). Surprisingly...the impeller, back plate, and seal were in good condition. As the back plate was actually a cream color I wager these parts were replaced not too long ago. As I am not reusing, I am not bothering with pictures (but I will compare condition to the new ones and see about selling secondhand if they check out).

I guess my next question is...is a Water Slinger supposed to go around the shaft here and pressed against the motor housing? Don't know why this part is never included in part diagrams or pump rebuild videos.

Ironically, you can see half of a water slinger that I found on my property elsewhere that appears to be a perf fit for the shaft. Its inner diameter is 5/8". I think I can find a suitable replacement part if I look long enough, but I just need confirmation on placement.

 

[1poolman1]

Alright, so I managed to get the aftermarket bolt off using a high-torque drill (was on there TIGHT). Surprisingly...the impeller, back plate, and seal were in good condition. As the back plate was actually a cream color I wager these parts were replaced not too long ago. As I am not reusing, I am not bothering with pictures (but I will compare condition to the new ones and see about selling secondhand if they check out).

I guess my next question is...is a Water Slinger supposed to go around the shaft here and pressed against the motor housing? Don't know why this part is never included in part diagrams or pump rebuild videos.

Ironically, you can see half of a water slinger that I found on my property elsewhere that appears to be a perf fit for the shaft. Its inner diameter is 5/8". I think I can find a suitable replacement part if I look long enough, but I just need confirmation on placement.

Water slinger just sits on the shaft. It is missing, sooner or later, on the vast majority of pumps I have worked on. About $3.00 at Leslie's.

 

[JSnake Repair]

Water slinger just sits on the shaft. It is missing, sooner or later, on the vast majority of pumps I have worked on. About $3.00 at Leslie's.

Could you be so gracious to elaborate? For my two pumps, can you just mark where they go? Are they just LOOSE on the shaft (literally 'slinging' water), or serving as a sort of cushion/washer between the motor body and motor bracket?

Visited two Leslies locations and they not only did not carry any, they all had no idea what the part was. I bought this slinger for the PB4-60 (after eyeballing it and praying it was the right inner diameter) and it's a good fit, but does NOT fit the Emerson/Challenger pump shaft. None of these have bloody measurements on them, eyeballing this slinger for the Emerson/Challenger.

 

[Lake Placid]

Could you be so gracious to elaborate? For my two pumps, can you just mark where they go? Are they just LOOSE on the shaft (literally 'slinging' water), or serving as a sort of cushion/washer between the motor body and motor bracket?

Visited two Leslies locations and they not only did not carry any, they all had no idea what the part was. I bought this slinger for the PB4-60 (after eyeballing it and praying it was the right inner diameter) and it's a good fit, but does NOT fit the Emerson/Challenger pump shaft. None of these have bloody measurements on them, eyeballing this slinger for the Emerson/Challenger.