Pump HP question for Hayward S200 Sand Filter

[kafox001]

A smaller nozzle would reduce water flow. That would not help.
So you are not getting debris in the skimmer basket? You do have a weir door, correct?
Low filter pressure is good.

Ok - I just thought a smaller nozzle would increase pressure slightly.

There is some debris entering the skimmer but maybe 1/4 of the amount as when it runs full speed. Most of it just floats on by for another trip around the pool. My pool gets a lot of debris, so good skimming is crucial.

Yes, I have a functioning weir door.

 

[mknauss]

I guess you have to increase the rpm. Your pool would have worked a lot better with larger VS pump.

 

[Darin]

have you cut your main drain way back. at least half or more?

 

[Darin]

I was watching a pump replacement video and it was mentioned that too much horsepower could damage the laterals but I'm unable to find anything else that confirms this.

You are only increasing your impeller from 1.1hp to the 1.5 kit so your flow increase will be around 25% at same RPM or ballpark when compared to old pump at full speed for vacuuming.

 

[mas985]

1725RPM doesn't seem to be quite cutting it - not getting very much skimming.

Would switching the return to a smaller nozzle and/or partially closing the skimmer using the restrictor plate make any appreciable difference?

Also, wanted to confirm that its expected for my pressure to drop to about 2.5psi at 1725RPM? Pressure at 3450RPM is around 17psi.

A smaller nozzle will reduce flow rate some but the exit velocity is higher so the reach of the nozzle can be longer as well.

But one thing to understand is that at lower flow rates, the skimmers don't look like they are working as well and in reality, there is some truth to that. But they will still skim properly albeit a little slower than at full speed which is ok since you are saving energy. So if you run at half speed, it will likely take twice as long to skim the pool so a little patience is warranted. Run it for a few days and see how much the skimmer collects.

 

[kafox001]

I guess you have to increase the rpm. Your pool would have worked a lot better with larger VS pump.

bummer. I wish someone had mentioned that earlier in this thread when I was asking for recommendations. I would have gladly upsized to the 2.25HP if it would have worked better.

have you cut your main drain way back. at least half or more?

I do not have a main drain.

A smaller nozzle will reduce flow rate some but the exit velocity is higher so the reach of the nozzle can be longer as well.

But one thing to understand is that at lower flow rates, the skimmers don't look like they are working as well and in reality, there is some truth to that. But they will still skim properly albeit a little slower than at full speed which is ok since you are saving energy. So if you run at half speed, it will likely take twice as long to skim the pool so a little patience is warranted. Run it for a few days and see how much the skimmer collects.

Yea, increased exit velocity is what I was getting at but the skimmer info makes sense. I'll be patient and watch it for a few more days. It's definitely grabbing stuff but struggling to pull some of the bigger debris.

Thanks all!

 

[kafox001]

It's definitely skimming, just slow. Will probably add a couple hours of runtime and call it good.

@mknauss Can you expand on what a bigger motor would have done for me? I was worried about going too big for my sand filter. 1THP -> 1.5THP is already a 50% increase. Next size up would have been 2.25THP

 

[mknauss]

A VS pump is a variable HP pump. You cannot get too big. The higher HP VS pump (residential pool pump) would run at a lower rpm, be quieter, and use less electricity to pump the same amount of water as a lower thp vs pump.

 

[kafox001]

A VS pump is a variable HP pump. You cannot get too big. The higher HP VS pump (residential pool pump) would run at a lower rpm, be quieter, and use less electricity to pump the same amount of water as a lower thp vs pump.

Sure, I understand that. But on priming, start up and/or backwashing it would be running at full RPM/THP for at least a few mins. That's where my concern for the filter comes into play.

 

[mas985]

Sure, I understand that. But on priming, start up and/or backwashing it would be running at full RPM/THP for at least a few mins. That's where my concern for the filter comes into play.

Doesn't have to be. You can set the appropriate flow rate for all those functions.

 

[mknauss]

Sure, I understand that. But on priming, start up and/or backwashing it would be running at full RPM/THP for at least a few mins. That's where my concern for the filter comes into play.

My VS pump never goes above 2500 rpm. I set it as the max rpm allowed.

 

[kafox001]

Doesn't have to be. You can set the appropriate flow rate for all those functions.

Unless I am mistaken - not with the EVO motors you can't. Happy to be proven wrong though.

 

[mas985]

Sorry, I keep forgetting about the limitations of that motor. To me, that is really not a variable speed motor but more of a multi-speed (MS) motor.

However, given that pump and the filter and assuming standard 1.5" plumbing, it is unlikely that the flow rate will get much above 50 GPM. The design rate of that filter is 44 GPM but that doesn't mean it will fail at higher flow rates, it just means that to get optimal filtering, you don't want to go much bove that. Sand filters are quite robust and can survive well beyond the "design" flow rate so I would not be overly concerned. So short periods at full speed for priming and backwash should not be an issue.

Also, there are schedules that you can use that do not run at full speed (e.g. Set A 6 & 7).

What is the filter pressure at full speed?

 

[kafox001]

Sorry, I keep forgetting about the limitations of that motor. To me, that is really not a variable speed motor but more of a multi-speed (MS) motor.

However, given that pump and the filter and assuming standard 1.5" plumbing, it is unlikely that the flow rate will get much above 50 GPM. The design rate of that filter is 44 GPM but that doesn't mean it will fail at higher flow rates, it just means that to get optimal filtering, you don't want to go much bove that. Sand filters are quite robust and can survive well beyond the "design" flow rate so I would not be overly concerned. So short periods at full speed for priming and backwash should not be an issue.

Also, there are schedules that you can use that do not run at full speed (e.g. Set A 6 & 7).

What is the filter pressure at full speed?

ok - got it - unfortunately, this was the only VS motor I could find that was 115V so I didn't have much choice (other than upsizing to the 2.25THP motor, which I didn't realize I should have done).

I am running schedule A5 which primes at full speed then is 1725RPM and I am using a hardwire timer to control the on/off. A7 is same speed but would have no prime (would this be an issue?)

Pressure at full speed is ~17psi

 

[mas985]

ok - got it - unfortunately, this was the only VS motor I could find that was 115V so I didn't have much choice (other than upsizing to the 2.25THP motor, which I didn't realize I should have done).

Both Pentair and Hayward make "real" VS pumps with 115v but probably too late now. I think a few other posts above mentioned others as well.

SuperFlo® VS Variable Speed Pump

The SuperFlo VS Variable Speed Pumps bring the energy cost savings of variable speed technology to pools at an affordable price. Browse products here.

www.pentair.com

SP26115VSP | Super Pump VS | Pumps | In Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products

The Super Pump VS 115V from Hayward® is the most energy efficient 115-volt variable-speed pump on the market, offering energy savings of up to 80% over ordinary single-speed pumps.

www.hayward-pool.com

But perhaps you are only interested in just the motor which gets more difficult.

I am running schedule A5 which primes at full speed then is 1725RPM and I am using a hardwire timer to control the on/off. A7 is same speed but would have no prime (would this be an issue?)

No issue as long as you don't have any air leaks. Air leaks can cause the pump basket to drain when the pump is off which is not normal and should be avoided. So as long as that doesn't happen, you shouldn't need a priming mode.

Pressure at full speed is ~17psi

Is filter clean?

How many return eyeballs are there and do you know their opening size?

 

[kafox001]

yBoth Pentair and Hayward make "real" VS pumps with 115v but probably too late now. I think a few other posts above mentioned others as well.

SuperFlo® VS Variable Speed Pump

The SuperFlo VS Variable Speed Pumps bring the energy cost savings of variable speed technology to pools at an affordable price. Browse products here.

www.pentair.com

SP26115VSP | Super Pump VS | Pumps | In Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products

The Super Pump VS 115V from Hayward® is the most energy efficient 115-volt variable-speed pump on the market, offering energy savings of up to 80% over ordinary single-speed pumps.

www.hayward-pool.com

But perhaps you are only interested in just the motor which gets more difficult.


No issue as long as you don't have any air leaks. Air leaks can cause the pump basket to drain when the pump is off which is not normal and should be avoided. So as long as that doesn't happen, you shouldn't need a priming mode.


Is filter clean?

How many return eyeballs are there and do you know their opening size?

I was only looking to replace the motor for my existing Super Pump - didn't want to get into any plumbing changes or completely new pumps. The Super Pump VS you posted is only 115V in the .85THP model. Other is 230V.

Good to know about priming and yes, that is clean filter pressure on full speed. I only have one return eyeball, and I am not positive on exact size but I think its a 3/4. I used to have a smaller one on there, but the force of the water coming out was quite strong so I bumped up to the next size. I understand having one return is not ideal, but its something I just have to deal with. I believe there was a second return at some point, but the previous owner had it disconnected and capped instead of repairing an underground plumbing leak.

 

[mas985]

With the single return, that filter pressure now makes sense. Based upon the flow rate in your system is likely to be around 44-45 GPM.

 

[kafox001]

With the single return, that filter pressure now makes sense. Based upon the flow rate in your system is likely to be around 44-45 GPM.

That's at full speed right? Is that a concern for the filter?

 

[mas985]

That is at full speed and no, it is not a problem for the filter since that is the recommended "design flow rate".

 

[kafox001]

That is at full speed and no, it is not a problem for the filter since that is the recommended "design flow rate".

Oh right, you already went over that sorry.

Anyway I bumped the runtime from 8 hours to 10 hours and I'm going to stick with the 1725RPM for a while and see how it goes once the pool gets some use. We haven't had many warm days in New England yet so no one has been in.

Thanks everyone for your help and I'll update here if I have other questions/issues.