Hi, we contracted with a landscape architect who posed as pool builder annd said he had a pool division. He ended up subbing out most work and we understand that he owes a lot to have our pool completed. He requested a 65% deposit June 2023. 90k. He promised the pool would be built quickly and they would have our pool permit soon we would be swimming in the fall 2023. They did not obtain a pool permit until JUne 2024. We paid another 100k before the pool contract was signed for grading and we were told excavation cost would be at most 5k since we did all the grading and there was a 3 foot depth already. What is a normal initial pool deposit. We only owe 17k now and unfortunately have found out they owe subcontractors 100k. Gunite has been done.
Pool Contract with Excessive Deposit
- Thread starter Too Trusting in CT
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,979
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Welcome to TFP.
Have you consulted with a lawyer to handle any liens subcontractors put on your house?
Have you consulted with a lawyer to handle any liens subcontractors put on your house?
Blackdirt Cowboy
Gold Supporter
- Aug 16, 2024
- 96
- Pool Size
- 17300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Man, sorry to hear about your troubles. Our initial deposit was $500 to get on the dig list. Draws were 30% at dig, 30% at gunite, 20% at deck, and 20% at plaster/completion.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,688
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You have a significant legal and financial mess on your hands if the “landscape architect” walks away from the job. All the subs that did work can and will put a lien on your home to recover lost revenue to them. They did the work, the ought to be paid. You have been bambozzled by whoever this person is that was contracting the job. We suggest you contact an attorney immediately and get proper legal advice.
FYI - down payments are typically not ever more than 10% of the total project cost. In some states, not sure about CT, there are laws against contractors requesting more than a certain amount before a job starts.
FYI - down payments are typically not ever more than 10% of the total project cost. In some states, not sure about CT, there are laws against contractors requesting more than a certain amount before a job starts.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,979
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
It sounds like the GC has been using down payments to fund the completion and payoff of prior jobs. That can work until business slows and there is not money coming from future contracts to payoff your subs.
Your risk is the GC goes bankrupt. You will be stuck having to pay twice to clear the liens from your house. For better or worse you are now in business with the GC and want to see that he pays off your subs and does not go bankrupt. Get legal advice on how to manage those risks.
Did you verify any data about the primary or secondary contractors like required Contractor's licenses and permits?
Have you verified Insurances and any Bond required for each contractor?
Have you talked to the subcontractors about what is happening?
You should probably contact the Local Contractor's Licensing Board as well as the Department of Consumer Protection.
Did you look up the Business License for all Contractors?
Did you look up the Corporation Registration for each contractor?
Have you contacted the Insurance Company for the Builder?
Does the Builder have a Bond and have you talked to the Bond Company?
What does the Builder have to say about allegations of subcontractors not being paid?
What are the minimum insurance requirements the Town requires for contracts?
Minimum insurance requirements are as follows:
General Liability: $1 million / $2 million
Auto Liability: $1 million
Excess Liability: $5 million
Worker's Compensation and Employers' Liability: Minimum coverages, as provided by Connecticut State statutes.
Professional Liability: $1 million
portal.ct.gov
[email protected]
portal.ct.gov
portal.ct.gov
portal.ct.gov
Have you verified Insurances and any Bond required for each contractor?
Have you talked to the subcontractors about what is happening?
You should probably contact the Local Contractor's Licensing Board as well as the Department of Consumer Protection.
Did you look up the Business License for all Contractors?
Did you look up the Corporation Registration for each contractor?
Have you contacted the Insurance Company for the Builder?
Does the Builder have a Bond and have you talked to the Bond Company?
What does the Builder have to say about allegations of subcontractors not being paid?
What are the minimum insurance requirements the Town requires for contracts?
Minimum insurance requirements are as follows:
General Liability: $1 million / $2 million
Auto Liability: $1 million
Excess Liability: $5 million
Worker's Compensation and Employers' Liability: Minimum coverages, as provided by Connecticut State statutes.
Professional Liability: $1 million
Home Improvement Applications
portal.ct.gov
[email protected]
Verify a License
Search for and verify active or inactive business and occupational licenses, permits, and registrations using Connecticut's eLicense portal.
portal.ct.gov
Verify a License - Instructions
portal.ct.gov
Home Improvement for Consumers
portal.ct.gov
Home Improvement Guaranty Fund.
The Department of Consumer Protection maintains the Home Improvement Guaranty Fund.
This fund was created and is replenished from annual assessments of registered contractors, and can be used to help satisfy an unpaid judgment (or court-confirmed arbitration decision) to a homeowner.
A homeowner may be eligible for up to $25,000 from the Fund if they had hired a registered home improvement contractor and the resulting problem meets certain criteria.
Relevant Statute: Chapter 400 Section 20-432
Application to the Guaranty Fund
More About the Home Improvement Guaranty Fund
One of the most frustrating experiences for any homeowner is suffering through a poorly done home improvement project – or, even worse, one that was paid for, but never completed.
Even more frustrating is going to court, receiving a judgment in your favor, and then discovering the judgment is virtually worthless because the contractor has no assets or can’t be located.
But there is help for consumers through Connecticut’s Home Improvement Guaranty Fund.
This is a pool of money administered by the Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection.
It was created and is replenished from annual assessments of registered contractors and can be used to help satisfy an unpaid judgment to a homeowner.
You may be eligible for up to $25,000 from the Fund if your home improvement problem meets the following criteria:
Your contractor must have been registered with the Department of Consumer Protection at the time you signed your contract, or within two years of the date you signed your contract, or at the time of your court judgment.
The contract must have been for work on residential property (single or multifamily dwellings of six units or less, or condos or cooperatives).
The total price of the work involved must have been more than $200.
You must apply to the Guaranty Fund within two years after you receive the court judgment against your contractor.
For Federal or Superior Court judgments, you must have tried to collect the money owed you by means of a marshal’s “writ of execution,” and were unsuccessful in that attempt.
For Small Claims judgments, you are not required to attempt to collect by means of a writ of execution.
If the contractor does not pay you in accordance with the judgment, you may apply directly to the Guaranty Fund.
You may recover from the Guaranty Fund actual damages, court costs and attorneys’ fees as ordered in your court judgment, up to $25,000.
Attorney fees are payable only if your court judgment includes the attorney fees in the awarded amount.
Application processing time varies based on legal notice periods, application completeness, due process considerations, and the volume of applications pending.
The majority of qualified applicants receive payment within twenty-four weeks.
The Guaranty Fund does not cover:
New Home Construction
portal.ct.gov
The Department of Consumer Protection maintains the Home Improvement Guaranty Fund.
This fund was created and is replenished from annual assessments of registered contractors, and can be used to help satisfy an unpaid judgment (or court-confirmed arbitration decision) to a homeowner.
A homeowner may be eligible for up to $25,000 from the Fund if they had hired a registered home improvement contractor and the resulting problem meets certain criteria.
Relevant Statute: Chapter 400 Section 20-432
Application to the Guaranty Fund
More About the Home Improvement Guaranty Fund
One of the most frustrating experiences for any homeowner is suffering through a poorly done home improvement project – or, even worse, one that was paid for, but never completed.
Even more frustrating is going to court, receiving a judgment in your favor, and then discovering the judgment is virtually worthless because the contractor has no assets or can’t be located.
But there is help for consumers through Connecticut’s Home Improvement Guaranty Fund.
This is a pool of money administered by the Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection.
It was created and is replenished from annual assessments of registered contractors and can be used to help satisfy an unpaid judgment to a homeowner.
You may be eligible for up to $25,000 from the Fund if your home improvement problem meets the following criteria:
Your contractor must have been registered with the Department of Consumer Protection at the time you signed your contract, or within two years of the date you signed your contract, or at the time of your court judgment.
The contract must have been for work on residential property (single or multifamily dwellings of six units or less, or condos or cooperatives).
The total price of the work involved must have been more than $200.
You must apply to the Guaranty Fund within two years after you receive the court judgment against your contractor.
For Federal or Superior Court judgments, you must have tried to collect the money owed you by means of a marshal’s “writ of execution,” and were unsuccessful in that attempt.
For Small Claims judgments, you are not required to attempt to collect by means of a writ of execution.
If the contractor does not pay you in accordance with the judgment, you may apply directly to the Guaranty Fund.
You may recover from the Guaranty Fund actual damages, court costs and attorneys’ fees as ordered in your court judgment, up to $25,000.
Attorney fees are payable only if your court judgment includes the attorney fees in the awarded amount.
Application processing time varies based on legal notice periods, application completeness, due process considerations, and the volume of applications pending.
The majority of qualified applicants receive payment within twenty-four weeks.
The Guaranty Fund does not cover:
New Home Construction
Home Improvement Guaranty Fund
portal.ct.gov
- May 23, 2015
- 25,688
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
This is a common “game” that low-end GC’s use … the laws on this vary by state with some states making it outright illegal to not segregate customer funds to no regulations at all on financing. Good GC’s don’t need large upfront down payments (just enough to get the process rolling by paying local planning fees and paying for a PE to review designs and stamp them).
I think @Too Trusting in CT has a lot to consider here. Getting legal counsel is the best advice TFP can give at this point.
sktn77a
Gold Supporter
Yes, definitely get a lawyer. The amounts involved and the descriptions you give (fraud) may go beyond civil issues an may be criminal offences.
Yesterday was not pretty!! I confronted the duo and they yelling at me for asking for detailed bills for electric and plumbing. In a heated exchange I said you are front-loaders. The more they yelled I just repeated front-loaders. Keep in mind these are intimidating people. Two tall men who claim to be very “connected in town”.
I didn’t know the term front-loader prior to yesterday. Family in CA provided a link Sunday how it is illegal in many states to take excessive deposits. They only provide vague and inaccurate invoices inflated for electric and plumbing work stating only the amount 11,500 for plumbing to date. This includes all work to date. All gas lines and line to go to fire bowl and main water line. BUT no gas or waterlines had been run. They also gave me another Invoice “electric work to date” 6,500 not inclusive of any other work that needs to be done. I reached out to the electrician and found out he had not provided any invoices yet and also was never given a deposit. He had run a lot of pipes and pulled a permit.
So after these master con artists knew many of their antics and lies were exposed they just lost it.. this all occurred over the phone. More lies they cast unfolded and after all this I received a text message that they would pay the pool builder they had subcontracted all they owed him and also prepay the final payment. Thankfully all is paid supposedly!!
We really need laws in ALL the states prohibiting excessive deposits. SBy the way these 2 guys claimed they owned a pool division in addition to having a landscape company. They earned our trust doing masonry work and large scale plantings and were charming and seemed very trustworthy otherwise we never would have signed a contract with them and paid a 65 percent deposit. It’s all disheartening but hopefully all is completed soon now. The pool builder is one of integrity and now I am waiting for estimates from subcontractors and to pay what is owed to date directly to them. The con guys said could work directly with the electrician and plumber going forward. We think they prepaid because many of their lies are exposed and they are worried about everything becoming public knowledge. We just want our pool completed before winter.Thanks again for the great feedback.still a bit in shock!
- May 23, 2015
- 25,688
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Well, that's an interesting twist to the story ... but .... I really don't think you are out of danger just yet. I don't fully understand the details of who is involved with who and how payments were made, but just getting some hand-written invoices with no details and a text message from the perpetrators that the pool builder is being paid is not really rock solid evidence that you're in the clear. You gave these people huge amounts of money (huge to most of us here because most of us here don't live in Greenwich CT ... one of the richest ZIP Codes in the USA). Maybe you don't care about that money or it's no big deal to spend six figures paying people, but if this were me, I'd want answers. Your money was taken and spent on something ... and you have a half finished pool sitting in your yard ... there's still a lot of questions about who paid who and if a subcontractor got stiffed by these guys that scammed you, they can still put a lien on your home until you pay them whatever is owed.
Seems to me you still need a lawyer to look at this. I'm not trying to be difficult or blame you, but this story is far from over ....
Also, based on the one picture you posted, that pool is unfinished. It still needs lots of expensive finishing work to be done to it before it can ever hold water and so I hope someone has given you a plan for how it will be finished and what that will cost. By my estimation, you could have another $50k worth of work needed to get it even close to being functional.
Seems to me you still need a lawyer to look at this. I'm not trying to be difficult or blame you, but this story is far from over ....
Also, based on the one picture you posted, that pool is unfinished. It still needs lots of expensive finishing work to be done to it before it can ever hold water and so I hope someone has given you a plan for how it will be finished and what that will cost. By my estimation, you could have another $50k worth of work needed to get it even close to being functional.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,979
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
This is not legal advice but you need to get written lien releases from all subcontractors who worked on your property.