New Pool Build - TX

[Twolabs]

Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Twolabs, I hope you can get the pool of your dreams and if you can make the numbers work - your design is amazing. It is that vision - that makes any of the frustrations with the build worth it. I love a comment that was made on the ROI thread - "the first year of swims cost $1000 each. After that it was free." We're at the point now - where we are almost halfway invested in the total budget (and about to make the third payment out of five) and are struggling that we have spent a lot of money so far but don't have anything to enjoy yet - usually when we have spent this much money - we already have something to play with But I keep going back to our design and think - "I love this design" Good luck - Karen

Thanks Karen! Well your design is incredible as well. That is what keeps drawing us back here. The other two bids were good designs, but not great like this one. And we would still be spending a pretty penny with the other two, so we can still afford it...just need to post pone some of the other aspects for now.

I wonder what would happen if you showed THE dream pool to the other builders?? All you can do is ask if they can bet the price. Make sure it is apples to apples.

Go for the DREAM as much as you can. See what part of the DREAM can be built later so that your hardscape is what you want from the get go.

Let us see what you come up with and we will help you spend your money LOL


Kim

Ha thanks Kim! Well, I would show this design to the other two but they can't do what this guy can do. Specifically with the gunite waterfall, slide, and grotto. They can do "similar" things, but it is vastly different. Our nightmare scenario is dumping a ton of money into our backyard only to come home one afternoon to see a waterfall that we didn't like at all.

And you are correct, that is what we've decided to do is to forgo some of the other aspects that aren't as high on the priority list for now in order to get the pool and design in. We'll go back in a few years to add some of the other aspects.

Thanks again, and right now one of the last things on my to do list is to get a 3rd party opinion on our pool substructure. PB thinks that the piers are overkill and not needed, but I want a geoengineer's opinion before we make any final decisions.

 

[CusePool]

Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Well believe it or not, you were right CusePool, after a "Thanks but that's so far over our budget I don't even know where to begin" email...he did call back and after cutting some things from the design, gets us tantalizingly close to our red line budget while still keeping our "must haves". Cutting the outdoor kitchen and arbor for a later day.

I'm glad you pushed back some! Like I said, I think they fish a little bit if they know you are totally invested in the design. We cut out some things as well, but a huge portion of the savings came from them just reducing the price (like I said, they make up a reason that it was reduced, but it was just a pure fantasy number they gave us the first time around).

I agree with the comment made about three 3HP pumps. I'm sure you probably need a big pump for the slide and water fall, but I'm not sure why you need 3 pumps that big. The pool itself shouldn't probably require more than a 2 HP, if that. I'd really dig into that because it isn't just the initial cost of those pumps, but you'll be paying to run those big hoss pumps every month in your electric bill. I like that they have a 525 sqft cartridge filter in there. All the cons I have seen about cartridge filters usually relate to them being undersized. My PB put a 525 Swimclear in my build too. It is massively oversized for a ~20,000 gallon pool and that is what I like about it - fewer cleanings.

 

[Ryno98]

Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

My opinion on the extra pumps: only one pump is used for circulation of the pool itself. The others are used for the water features. Is it even possible to have TOO MUCH water going down your waterfalls? I don't think so. More water = more better. And it's not like you have to run the waterfalls all day every day. Ours only get turned on for a few minutes each day to flush water through and prevent algae, then for at most a few hours a week when we are swimming/sliding. We certainly notice a difference on our electric bill from the main pump, but the waterfall pumps seriously don't even make a dent.

 

[Twolabs]

Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

My opinion on the extra pumps: only one pump is used for circulation of the pool itself. The others are used for the water features. Is it even possible to have TOO MUCH water going down your waterfalls? I don't think so. More water = more better. And it's not like you have to run the waterfalls all day every day. Ours only get turned on for a few minutes each day to flush water through and prevent algae, then for at most a few hours a week when we are swimming/sliding. We certainly notice a difference on our electric bill from the main pump, but the waterfall pumps seriously don't even make a dent.

You are correct. I asked the PB about it a couple of days ago and he confirmed that one is for the pool, and the other 2 are for the water feature. When you say the waterfall pumps don't make a dent, are you meaning they don't make a dent in the electric bill because you rarely run them? I can imagine running them alot would run it up. That would probably be equivalent to another central AC unit running solid.

I completely agree...mo water....mo betta.

As far as the substructure goes, I will give an update. I've done fairly extensive research into it and spoke with several different professionals. I also received the soil test back from the geotechnical engineer that designed our foundation 4 years ago. He, along with everyone else, seemed to think that as long as we have a pool builder we trust, and has been in the business for a long time, we should be okay. Both of those check out. However, I'm still by nature (and in the business of) very aware of risks and potential problems. So researching my soil data, and speaking with a couple of chemical injection companies, I think that is the direction I"m going to go. The plasticity index of my soil is marginally high (29) for the first 6 feet, and then after that it drops way down. So the most expansive soil will be what the decking will be sitting on. So I think it's worth a little investment to at least stabilize the soil to help prevent future failures, if nothing else to give me a little peace of mind. Poolcritic is right, the best thing to do is to hire my own geotechnical and structural engineer...but that would kill the project for those costs. So I'm rolling the dice, trusting my PB, while giving myself a little added layer of protection. I've found one company that will give you a 10 year warranty on their soil stabilization (have yet to look at the fine print though).

PB said today that he's coordinating with the specialty contractor who will be doing the gunite waterfall and hopefully next week we'll have some firm dig dates and a contract to sign. Will update as we progress!

 

[Ryno98]

Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

When you say the waterfall pumps don't make a dent, are you meaning they don't make a dent in the electric bill because you rarely run them?

Exactly. We use the waterfalls when we are out swimming with the kids, etc. Otherwise, we don't run them than often. To be honest, with all 3 waterfall pumps running the waterfalls get a bit loud for normal conversation (from the actual water falling, not the pumps making noise - you can't even hear the pumps over the loud water). The rock structure and the house work together to create a bit of a "sound cage" or something. It is great for drowning out any other surrounding noise, though. We frequently will run just one section of the waterfalls as a compromise between atmosphere, sliding ability, and conversation ability.

Awesome to hear you are finally going to get to start your project!

 

[Twolabs]

Contract signed. Digging next week

Well in case anyone is curious about the soil stuff, it fell through with the chemical injection companies. The first one (that I was so close to just going ahead and scheduling it) didn't turn out. He was incredibly helpful, gave me my soil info from the USDA and went through it in great detail explaining things. I didn't feel like he sensationalized it in order to sell me, in fact he said that my soil was "borderline" and that no one could criticize me for doing the treatment and no one could criticize if I didn't. He wasn't pushy at all and seemed very knowledgable. Well, right before I was about to email him the green light "I literally had the email typed out." I decided to do a little more research, and that's when I discovered he was owner of another company (a landscape design company) and his BBB score was F with 6 unresolved complaints...each one reading like a nightmare "won't return my calls, filed liens, etc etc." So yeah, I was this close to giving him a good bit of money.

The 2nd chemical injection company quoted me $7,500 to do about 1500 sq ft at 6 ft depth (pool shell and decking). I thought that was quite expensive.

In the mean time, I've spoken to two different engineers. The first one was who designed my own foundation and did the soil analysis. He has recently been hired to do forensic swimming pool inspections on three pools, involved in lawsuits between pool owners and pool builders. He told me that I should be fine with the construction of the pool as long as my PB has been in business for a long time and we trust him. The soil on those three pools that had major problems had plasticity indices greater than 60.

The other engineer I spoke with is a personal friend of mine who is a structural engineer. His degree was in structural engineering with a minor in geotechnical engineering. He works for a company that designs large scale petrochemical plants. He also assured me that we should be okay.

So with that....I'll update next week with some actual pictures of destruction!

 

[Twolabs]

It has begun!

 

[Ryno98]

Looking good! I always loved coming home from work every day during my build and getting to see what was done. Enjoy it!

 

[RangerBob]

Woo hoo! I can't wait to watch this project - Karen

 

[Twolabs]

Beginning of Day 2 of digging. I wish I could stay home and watch because it is really fascinating.... But I do need to go try to pay for this thing.

 

[RangerBob]

You have some gorgeous trees in your yard. What's going to happen to the one laying on its side? It looks like they did a good job of preserving the root ball. They moved two of our trees but I don't think they are going to make it. - Karen

 

[Beadedbiker]

How exciting. I love the start of a build. Well at least someone else's LOL. This is going to be an exciting project to watch! It looks like you have a lovely yard with peaceful treed surroundings!

 

[Twolabs]

Dig is complete! I'll post some pictures this evening.

Thanks Karen and Beadedbiker. Yes, believe it or not, every living thing on our half acre (aside from the many weeds), we planted. Our lot was just an empty pasture with no trees. So we are very attached to all of our trees. That tree on its side we didn't think was going to be taken out by the pool, but the spa and pool deck took it out by just a few feet. It was located just in front of the fence about in line with that red pickup. Yeah the excavator guy was talented, he was able to just scoop it up with one scoop and carried it over there and set it down. It's an autumn blaze maple (beautiful in the fall). I have a guy coming today to give me a bid on putting it out front. I don't know if it's going to make it or not.

Not pictures are two very beautiful japanese maples that we had transplanted as well. They are sitting in a flower bed beside the garage, and we are hand watering each day and praying they will make it. We have a special section in the back that is going to be set out for the largest japanese maple, you can slightly see it in the first picture behind and below the forms.

They are supposed to come out today and put down gravel in the bottom of the pool for added stability, but so far no one has shown and we have 50% chance of Thunderstorms today. So, fingers are crossed we don't get hit with a large rain and that they actually show up. I'm prepared to have my patience tested. I know that contractors, by nature, tend to fluctuate on meeting spoken deadlines...not to mention we're an hour and 15 minute drive from our PB and most of his subs.

So we'll see if anything gets done today.

 

[Twolabs]

Gravel in today. Here are some more pictures of the whole project.

A pump just in case the rain comes. Just a small chance over this weekend, but better safe than sorry.

Fire pit seating area.

That large area to the right is where the gunite waterfall/slide/grotto will be. There must be at least 12 in of gravel here.

Because of the chance of rain, they aren't coming back to do plumbing until Monday. He said they really don't want to dig a lot of trenches only to have them filled. Next week looks like great weather, so hopefully gunite soon.

 

[Beadedbiker]

It looks good. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you on the rain. I've been down that road and its muddy and not pretty. At least in the short term, but its not the end of the end of the world if does! Lots of gravel is great, it'll really help drainage under the shell, I have a bunch under mine too. I'm excited to see how it turns out, the plan sounds lovely!

 

[Ryno98]

We had lots of rain at this stage with our build. They placed GIANT plastic sheets over the entire project following the contours of the dig. They countersunk the 5 gallon bucket at the bottom of the deep end with the sump pump hose leading to the bucket. We got tons of rain and the setup worked perfectly with no need for any re-digging.

 

[cwescapexlt4x4]

wow, lucky and good to hear!

 

[Twolabs]

Just wanted to share one of our safety measures since we have two small kids. It operates like those child proof latches for single cabinet doors. It prevents the door from opening. In times where you will have a bunch of people over and they are in and out, the latch removes with just one screw.

 

[Twolabs]

Coming up on our first head scratching moment. See picture below.



As I mentioned earlier, that large gravel area is where our gunite slide/waterfall/grotto is going to go. A company from Houston is driving 5-6 hrs up, each way, to do this job. They are running a lot of plumbing from the pool (returns, suction, etc.) underneath this. This makes me really nervous. What if we have a leak underneath that thing? I called the PB and he acted like it was no big deal at all, told me not to worry about it. The pad is right behind that area, you can see where they are digging.

Seems like it would only make sense to run then a little farther out and around that area, don't you think?

 

[Twolabs]

Two phone calls later, they are moving it. He initially said that there is already going to be plumbing underneath it anyway (main drains, and the plumbing for the waterfall itself), that of which I can understand. Some of it can't be helped. By my point was, and is, if it doesn't have to go underneath, then why go underneath? This waterfall project is a big big expense, and something that this specialty contractor from Houston isn't going to just up and drive up to patch it if something were to go wrong. I know that pipe failures aren't extremely common, but man...for an extra $30-50 in plumbing, why not go to the right 5 feet and have all that under sod instead of a major structure that isn't easily repairable?

He didn't sound excited but I'm glad he's moving it.

The poor guy that had to shovel all of that gravel out to make that trench probably won't be happy either....