Mastic MESS

[Adidadi]

My builder is at the end of a three times ETA build. Everything appears perfect. But, I saw the mastic seal between perfectly caulked coping and nicely poured concrete. It is hideous. I had him redo it and to me, it is completely unsightly and unacceptable. Could I please get opinions of professionals and homeowners if I’m being too picky, but it is crooked every few feet.
I need it done right. What is he doing wrong:
Should he tape left and right and then peel paint off once it expands?
Do a lower bead so it doesn’t overflow?
Use an alternative solution. Please help. Thank you. Please note these are three separate pics of different areas.
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2

3

 

[kimkats]

This is something best talked about between your and your PB. What we think does not really matter. It is your pool so what you think is what matters. As for how he should do it................there are many different ways to do caulking (using that as a frame of reference as that is what I know). Talk to him and see what he thinks he could do different to make it like you want it.

Kim TFP MOD

 

[Adidadi]

This is the redo after the first SAME bad result. I find it unacceptable, and obviously, he won’t have a solution and won’t do it a third, and I wouldn’t ask him.
Everyone’s opinion matters, because maybe most builders will say; that’s the way they are supposed to look. If you want clean loo, use travertine coping and paver with caulk...? I don’t know. Is this what a normal mastic caulk job look like. That is more my question. Thank you.

 

[PoolGate]

The issue is that the way this is applied is that the crack is filled and then smoothed to the level of the coping and deck. What you are seeing is the differences in the edge between the two. There really is no easy way to make that bead parallel in a nice straight line unless a form is installed. Mine does not use mastic or caulk but instead uses a piece of foam between the stone coping and poured concrete deck. Those variations are there just like yours but are not visible since there is nothing in the crack to draw attention to them.

 

[Nectarologist]

With caulk I would expect that this is how it would look. You can't scrape it to make near perfect lines like with grout or mortar. The tape would not work. You could let it cure and then use a straight edge blade to cut the tape/caulk off but it wouldn't look good b/c you couldn't get it perfectly straight. I wouldn't do less because then you'll get water in the joint (unless it's purely looks then it's okay). My concern with a lower bead is that it would shrink too much, either in colder temps or just over time, and then look like it wasn't done right either. I worked for a pool company and never saw a pool with perfect caulk lines. They were always wider at some points. Honestly I never thought it looked bad, it was caulk sealing a seam. I can't say you're being too picky b/c it's your pool; I understand where you're coming from. Also I'm by no means an expert on caulking or pools. I learned more from here than I did working at a pool company. Maybe you can get photos of other jobs (from other builders) to compare? If none are perfect you know. If one out of 20 is perfect I'd say it was luck. But if 25% were perfect than you know it can be done. Sorry for this. I'm sure it's nerve wracking or at least annoying.

I have pavers (which have straight edges of course) and even the sand between them is of varying lengths due to overflow. Just no way to make them perfect.

 

[Adidadi]

Nectarologist, thank you for the excellent response. That really clarifies things for me.
I am now sad to have to accept the fact that a very expensive pool has the worst looking caulk imaginable. Anyone walking up to the pool will see crooked, curvy mastic.
I am wondering, had I used limestone or travertine scooting right up to the travertine coping, could be have just grouted it to perfection like he did on coping?
It almost makes me want to jackhammer out the entire cement and redo it to get a perfect finish.
I looked at the most incredible landscaping and pool designers I’ve come across; worth looking at their site. They are called geoscape. I can not imagine those high end pools having crooked, chewing gum like curves spilling out over gaps. Would tiling it have prevented this?
Thanks again for your great info.

 

[dcbear90]

I would venture to say that 99% of the people who see your pool won't even notice it. I think as homeowners and especially pool owners, we have a much more critical eye than others do. It doesn't make it right, though, that your PB couldn't make it look nice. I just think most people won't even notice. Just my $.02

 

[SpringPool]

I would venture to say that 99% of the people who see your pool won't even notice it. I think as homeowners and especially pool owners, we have a much more critical eye than others do. It doesn't make it right, though, that your PB couldn't make it look nice. I just think most people won't even notice. Just my $.02

I second this. It's amazing the attention to detail I have for some things at home and others don't notice unless I point them out.

 

[bmoreswim]

I won't opine on the quality of your mastik job. But I will provide you with a data point for our caulking. There was originally foam board in place then the caulking was applied a few months later. One side of the pool had a thinner foam board and the other had a wider foam board. I grinded out the thinner one to make the opening at least wide enough for a good bead of caulk. But one of them is twice the width of the other.

One thing I can do is assure you that no one has ever mentioned that disparity to me, nor do I think anyone ever noticed it. If you did your design job right, they will be so overwhelmed with your overall environment your pool creates, it won't even register with them. Your view of it (and that of those whom you point it out to) will need to get comfortable with the appearance, over time, if it remains though.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/53452-Pool-Build-Baltimore?p=586381&viewfull=1#post586381

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Mastic joints are always hard to make perfect simply because the mastic compound itself is very difficult to work with. It takes someone with a lot of skill and experience to do it right and it will only be as good as the two surfaces that are joined together. The mix of a travertine coping ("perfectly" straight cut edges) with a concrete deck (imperfect edges that are only as straight as the forms used to make them) exacerbates the problem as the two opposing surfaces are not equal. I think what you have now is the best job you can expect from the PB hired to do the work. I'm not saying that it can't look better, but you might have to bring in a lot of contractors to try their skills at fixing it....as others have said, you are probably the only one that notices it. I see imperfection in and around my pool everyday but not once has a guest of mine ever pointed to anything and said, "Oh, that looks terrible! I hope you didn't pay for that..."

 

[PoolguyinCT]

A fluid takes the shape of its container

 

[Adidadi]

I would venture to say that 99% of the people who see your pool won't even notice it. I think as homeowners and especially pool owners, we have a much more critical eye than others do. It doesn't make it right, though, that your PB couldn't make it look nice. I just think most people won't even notice. Just my $.02

I do agree that as a homeowner, we inspect details acutely. But a beautifully done pool should be cleanly finished. They are trimming and patching, but this mastic is just subpar if it is so hard to Arbol with. I wish they had a rubber insert that you could compress in there and trim it once it sets....

- - - Updated - - -

I won't opine on the quality of your mastik job. But I will provide you with a data point for our caulking. There was originally foam board in place then the caulking was applied a few months later. One side of the pool had a thinner foam board and the other had a wider foam board. I grinded out the thinner one to make the opening at least wide enough for a good bead of caulk. But one of them is twice the width of the other.

One thing I can do is assure you that no one has ever mentioned that disparity to me, nor do I think anyone ever noticed it. If you did your design job right, they will be so overwhelmed with your overall environment your pool creates, it won't even register with them. Your view of it (and that of those whom you point it out to) will need to get comfortable with the appearance, over time, if it remains though.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/53452-Pool-Build-Baltimore?p=586381&viewfull=1#post586381

Thank you for your experience and input. This feedback is relaxing me a bit.

- - - Updated - - -

Mastic joints are always hard to make perfect simply because the mastic compound itself is very difficult to work with. It takes someone with a lot of skill and experience to do it right and it will only be as good as the two surfaces that are joined together. The mix of a travertine coping ("perfectly" straight cut edges) with a concrete deck (imperfect edges that are only as straight as the forms used to make them) exacerbates the problem as the two opposing surfaces are not equal. I think what you have now is the best job you can expect from the PB hired to do the work. I'm not saying that it can't look better, but you might have to bring in a lot of contractors to try their skills at fixing it....as others have said, you are probably the only one that notices it. I see imperfection in and around my pool everyday but not once has a guest of mine ever pointed to anything and said, "Oh, that looks terrible! I hope you didn't pay for that..."

I agree entirely. His travertine coping and coping was flawless. The straightness of his concrete decking was perfect.....The guys have sections that are absolutely perfect and others where I assume they squeezed too hard and overloaded, causing overflow....
They are trimming with razor. Will see how it turns out. thanks for all the input guys. Great forum and advice.

 

[jimim]

do you have any "big picture" of the job. close ups always will show imperfections. I was just wondering what a pic from viewing height looks down a section of the pool?

my front porch and back porch has bluestone which bumps to 3 inch limestone. we used SL between the 2 surfaces due to winter expansion and contraction. we filled right to a hair below the surface. yes there are imperfections if you are on top of it isolating out looking at it foot by foot, but when you step back it's fine. that's why I was saying what about the big picture.

jim

 

[BigEinAZ]

He should have taped both sides of the joint and then pulled it immediately after caulking. You'd still have minor variations where the heights of the two sides didn't match but your eye would be drawn to the straight lines on the joint edges and not the height variations. I see several places where the caulk ran outside the hard edges of the concrete and stone, and this is what I think is causing the issue that you find unacceptable.

 

[Adidadi]

I asked him that EXACT question and he said it doesn’t work. I knew it was BS. It should be obvious the any overflow would be peeled off!
I agree with you. Thanks for confirming it.

 

[jimim]

Again any pics. We didn’t tape my lines and the sl was pretty straight. Like I said we stayed the tiniest on the low side.

 

[Adidadi]

Sorry, will try and post pics of entire pool. It is better, but just sloppy. I think mastik can not rise any higher than edge, if not a kilometer lower. Not sure if dip would cause water accumulation problems, but overflowing it just doesn’t look good.