Irremovable Stains - Las Vegas, NV

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Kayakarmada

Member
Sep 6, 2021
9
Las Vegas, NV
Pool Size
14000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Hello All,

I’ve kept my 14k plaster pool up and running through the winter with small top offs of bleach and acid.

I’m in the process of getting things ramped up and I’m having an extremely difficult time with some stains that are most prevalent on my wet deck and spa bench. At first I figured it was just extra alkaline fine dirt that gets kicked up and settles after windstorms (most of my neighbors still haven’t landscaped their backyards). However, this stuff does not budge. It feels like the dirt has literally turned to cement and is embedded in the plaster now.

It feels rough and looks identical to dirt but no amount of acid, direct application of chlorine, or vitamin C makes a dent. Even when I scrub with a scotch brite pad it may slightly lighten the stain but does not remove it.

Has anyone in the Southwest run into similar stains on their plaster and have any idea how I can get this stuff off?

I tested my water today with the Lamotte ColorQ 2X and these are my current results:

Temperature: 60.5 degrees
Salt: 3650
PH: 7.8
FC: 6.8
ADJ ALK: 112
Cal Hard: 552
CYA: 80
FE: 0
CU: 032FCFFBC-9A0F-43CC-B9BC-CCF880467664.jpeg2219294C-B17F-4BD4-AFD7-DAA68F4C2AE4.jpeg60979FF3-D03F-433A-955D-5A71B5A2ED37.jpeg645FBB49-6033-4716-B064-4663C8977064.jpeg
 
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Welcome to TFP.

Looks like metal staining. Try...

Stain ID Kit | Jacks Magic

jacksmagic.com jacksmagic.com

www.troublefreepool.com

Stains in Your Pool

The stained pool is beyond embarrassing. Our in-depth Guide to remove stains in your pool will help you to remove the stains and prevent them in the future.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
ajw22 said:
Welcome to TFP.

Looks like metal staining. Try...

Stain ID Kit | Jacks Magic

jacksmagic.com jacksmagic.com

www.troublefreepool.com

Stains in Your Pool

The stained pool is beyond embarrassing. Our in-depth Guide to remove stains in your pool will help you to remove the stains and prevent them in the future.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...

You think it could be metal if I’m testing 0.0 for Iron and Copper? We don’t have much metal in our water in the Southwest. I’ll look into that product, thanks.
 
Hi, welcome to TFP! From your test results I would say this is calcium scale with dirt embedded in it. When the pH is on the high end 7.8 and up, and there calcium hardness is high, the calcium in the water falls out of solution and deposits on the surfaces of your pool. Your area is notorious for having very hard water. You want to keep your CH between 250 and 400, which can be difficult if your fill water is laden with calcium. You want to minimize the effects of high CH water by keeping the pH around 7.0 to 7.2 I'm assuming you have a salt water chlorine generator and they can contribute to pH rise so you will need to be diligent watching the pH until you have a feel for how much it rises over the course of a week.
The only way to get rid of excess calcium is to drain and refill with lower calcium fill water. If you do decide to drain and refill, treat the pool for scale first by lowering the pH to 7.0 and try to keep it there until all the scale has released from the pool surface and gone back into solution where it can be drained out with the pool water.
 
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zea3 said:
Hi, welcome to TFP! From your test results I would say this is calcium scale with dirt embedded in it. When the pH is on the high end 7.8 and up, and there calcium hardness is high, the calcium in the water falls out of solution and deposits on the surfaces of your pool. Your area is notorious for having very hard water. You want to keep your CH between 250 and 400, which can be difficult if your fill water is laden with calcium. You want to minimize the effects of high CH water by keeping the pH around 7.0 to 7.2 I'm assuming you have a salt water chlorine generator and they can contribute to pH rise so you will need to be diligent watching the pH until you have a feel for how much it rises over the course of a week.
The only way to get rid of excess calcium is to drain and refill with lower calcium fill water. If you do decide to drain and refill, treat the pool for scale first by lowering the pH to 7.0 and try to keep it there until all the scale has released from the pool surface and gone back into solution where it can be drained out with the pool water.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, that could very well be the issue since I know our calcium levels are insane in Las Vegas. Would I see similar deposits around the tile line because that doesn’t seem to be an issue. I guess I’ll research how to manage a high calcium pool.
 
zea3 said:
there calcium hardness is high, the calcium in the water falls out of solution and deposits on the surfaces of your pool. Your area is notorious for having very hard water. You want to keep your CH between 250 and 400, which can be difficult if your fill water is laden with calcium.
Click to expand...

The ColorQ does not measure CH the same way the Taylor CH tests do.

LaMotte actually measures Total Hardness and not Calcium Hardness, no matter what LaMotte calls it in their paperwork. Total Hardness depends on a lot of other hardness factors other than just Calcium. Total Hardness depends a lot on your local water.

@Kayakarmada read here about the limitations to your ColorQ - Pool Test Kits - Further Reading

You should get the Taylor K-2006C or TFT Test Kits if you want to follow TFP methods of pool care.

The Jacks Stain ID kit tests for scale.

Managing a high CH pool is about keeping your CSI negative.

www.troublefreepool.com

Calcium Saturation Index (CSI)

How is CSI calculated? Very simple – use our PoolMath tool. To ensure long plaster life and save money, click here to learn more.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
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ajw22 said:
The ColorQ does not measure CH the same way the Taylor CH tests do.

LaMotte actually measures Total Hardness and not Calcium Hardness, no matter what LaMotte calls it in their paperwork. Total Hardness depends on a lot of other hardness factors other than just Calcium. Total Hardness depends a lot on your local water.

@Kayakarmada read here about the limitations to your ColorQ - Pool Test Kits - Further Reading

You should get the Taylor K-2006C or TFT Test Kits if you want to follow TFP methods or pool care.

The Jacks Stain ID kit tests for scale.

Managing a high CH pool is about keeping your CSI negative.

www.troublefreepool.com

Calcium Saturation Index (CSI)

How is CSI calculated? Very simple – use our PoolMath tool. To ensure long plaster life and save money, click here to learn more.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...
Thanks, I actually have the Taylor K-2006 but being color blind I was looking for a foolproof option haha. I will read up, thanks!
 
Do you use PoolMath to log your test results and calculate your CSI?

You need to go into the hamburger menu on the upper right and turn on CSI tracking.
 
I’m going to suggest you at least get the Taylor CH test done and, if you do it, you might want to use a 1:1 diluted sample of pool water and DISTILLED water. The downside of the ColorQ colorimeter is that it measures the wrong hardness value, as @ajw22 stated, AND it does not measure high hardness values accurately at all. Most CH tests really can’t do well above 800ppm. Even the Taylor test is problematic with high CH levels. That’s why I suggest you dilute your sample as I’m guessing it’s going to be a lot higher than you suspect.

Also, your TA is way too high for a desert pool. You should be targeting a TA of 60ppm ( forget the adjusted Alkalinity nonsense, just measure TA). But even in your case you Adj Alk is over 100ppm .. that’s way too high AND LaMotte ColorQ’s are notorious for the alkalinity reagent to go bad and give inaccurate results.
 

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JoyfulNoise said:
I’m going to suggest you at least get the Taylor CH test done and, if you do it, you might want to use a 1:1 diluted sample of pool water and DISTILLED water. The downside of the ColorQ colorimeter is that it measures the wrong hardness value, as @ajw22 stated, AND it does not measure high hardness values accurately at all. Most CH tests really can’t do well above 800ppm. Even the Taylor test is problematic with high CH levels. That’s why I suggest you dilute your sample as I’m guessing it’s going to be a lot higher than you suspect.

Also, your TA is way too high for a desert pool. You should be targeting a TA of 60ppm ( forget the adjusted Alkalinity nonsense, just measure TA). But even in your case you Adj Alk is over 100ppm .. that’s way too high AND LaMotte ColorQ’s are notorious for alkalinity test to produce bad results.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will test CH tomorrow with the Taylor 2006. The Lamotte test actually had my ALK at 140 before adjusting so very high. I probably wasnt as careful about adding muriatic acid during the winter as I should have been so I think my PH has been sitting close 8.0 for a few months at least. I will hit the PH tomorrow with some acid and get it down to low 7's to get the ALK back in range.

Thanks!
 
Kayakarmada said:
Ok, I will test CH tomorrow with the Taylor 2006. The Lamotte test actually had my ALK at 140 before adjusting so very high. I probably wasnt as careful about adding muriatic acid during the winter as I should have been so I think my PH has been sitting close 8.0 for a few months at least. I will hit the PH tomorrow with some acid and get it down to low 7's to get the ALK back in range.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The more you describe the way your pool has been cared for, the more it sounds like a scaling problem.

As was said if you can get your CSI between -0.3 to -0.6 for a few weeks or even months you may be able to melt the scale off. I am not sure you can get there and maintain it in your environment.
 
ajw22 said:
Welcome to TFP.

Looks like metal staining. Try...

Stain ID Kit | Jacks Magic

jacksmagic.com jacksmagic.com

www.troublefreepool.com

Stains in Your Pool

The stained pool is beyond embarrassing. Our in-depth Guide to remove stains in your pool will help you to remove the stains and prevent them in the future.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...
So I used the Jacks Magic kit and turns out the Jacks Magic #2 Copper and Scale Remover burned the stain right off.

The only problem now is that I dont have a heater bypass on my pool so I don't think I can use it. The manufacture recommends using Purple or Magenta stuff as an alternative if I cant use the #2. Anyone think I'll have similar luck using these sequestrants since it appears the #2 stuff is a no go for me?
 
Use the #2 but do not run the pump. Brush the pool really well, several times. Once the stain is lifted, drain the pool using a sump pump.
 
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Kayakarmada said:
Thanks, I did just that. $200 same day from a local repair company. I'm good to go for the #2 treatment now.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hello, I also live in Las Vegas and have the same staining problem, my pool looks like yours. I will get a Jacks kit to see if it removes it. Are you happy with the results and who did your heater bypass in Las Vegas, I need one put in as well. Thanks !
 

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