I want to add an in-ground spa to my pool, please suggest me so I do things right

[venexiano]

Good afternoon,

I want to add an in-ground spa to my pool. I think an average-sized one, which can fit about 4-8 people max. I attach below the pictures of the pool (forget the dirt from the trees, I need to pressure wash it asap). The picture with the measuring tape indicates the corner of the pool where I would like to have the spa. There is 13'5" in the shorter direction toward the pool enclosure. In the other direction, we have plenty of space cause I can always move the couches. I would like it to have a spillway to spill water into the main pool. I would probably use gas to get it hot quickly (I dont have a gas line in my house). I have a few questions:

1) I think it would be good to use the same recirculating pump as the pool and have that spillway from spa to pool. Is that a bad idea?

2) If in the future I wanna heat up the pool during the cold season (Mid October to mid-April), I am in Gainesville Florida. Is it the same cost to build a system that heats up the spa and (optionally) heats up the pool, or is it cheaper to just heat up the spa? I am not planning to heat the pool all winter but maybe only for special events.

3) Which material were you suggesting for my case? I see some people do fiberglass, others gunite, others shotcrete. Pros and cons of these materials?

4) I emailed a pool contractor, he said it is gonna cost ~55k or more to add the spa and gas line. That is for a 6’ x 8’ or 7’ x 7’ spa in Concrete (but shotcrete not gunite). When I asked how come so expensive, he said: "Per my engineer – I must cut into the shell of the pool quite a bit to tie the pool and spa together which then requires the pool to be replastered and tiled. We even tried using a trough on one of our jobs and if I recall they still wanted us to cut 9” into the pool beam." Do you think 55k is a fair ballpark price?

5) I am reading online that gas is the best option for North Florida, do you agree? Heat pump would be too slow, right? How slower than gas? And pricewise?

6) Would you suggest the spa should be at the same level or higher level than the pool? I feel that a higher level allows you to have a nice waterfall with lighting effects, but shouldn't it cost more to build higher? Or actualy cheaper cause you need to dig shallower hole? But more cost to pump water in the spa if it has a higher level? It would be good to have an estimate of the extra cost per year for a pool 1 foot above the ground, but i guess it is negligible. It would be also relatively harder to enter since you need to step over.


Thank you
Best
Venexiano

 

[Jimrahbe]

V,

Have you ever been in a gunite spa before???

If not, you really need to try one before you spend $55K on one.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[guinness]

Jim makes a good point, see the following thread.

Pool Build - Hot Tub/Spa help - Separate vs. Integrated

We built a pool about 4 years ago, and recently sold our house. We are now building a new house and designing a new pool. We loved everything about our previous pool. We live in Texas but still use the hot tub quit a bit. The issue with the previous pool is that it would take the hot tub 2-3...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

I like my gunite spa but in your situation I would buy a large self contained hot tub. It will cost you less to install and less to operate in the cooler months.

Gunite Spas - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Mdragger88]

You could get a really nice, large, comfortable stand alone tub with tons of features & have lots of $$ to burn without spending $55k. It would be ready whenever you wanted to use it - no matter the season, without planning ahead.
You can get a stone wall or something done around it so it looks more custom. All without risking the integrity of your current pool & surrounding area, or having to tear everything apart.
I don’t have an extra $55k, but if I did, I am pretty sure I still wouldn’t want an integrated hot tub. I like to use it too much.
What you described is also basically redoing your whole pool.
Getting one built that way from scratch is one thing but adding one is a complex undertaking.

 

[SandiMacD]

Good afternoon,

I want to add an in-ground spa to my pool. I think an average-sized one, which can fit about 4-8 people max. I attach below the pictures of the pool (forget the dirt from the trees, I need to pressure wash it asap). The picture with the measuring tape indicates the corner of the pool where I would like to have the spa. There is 13'5" in the shorter direction toward the pool enclosure. In the other direction, we have plenty of space cause I can always move the couches. I would like it to have a spillway to spill water into the main pool. I would probably use gas to get it hot quickly (I dont have a gas line in my house). I have a few questions:

1) I think it would be good to use the same recirculating pump as the pool and have that spillway from spa to pool. Is that a bad idea?

2) If in the future I wanna heat up the pool during the cold season (Mid October to mid-April), I am in Gainesville Florida. Is it the same cost to build a system that heats up the spa and (optionally) heats up the pool, or is it cheaper to just heat up the spa? I am not planning to heat the pool all winter but maybe only for special events.

3) Which material were you suggesting for my case? I see some people do fiberglass, others gunite, others shotcrete. Pros and cons of these materials?

4) I emailed a pool contractor, he said it is gonna cost ~55k or more to add the spa and gas line. That is for a 6’ x 8’ or 7’ x 7’ spa in Concrete (but shotcrete not gunite). When I asked how come so expensive, he said: "Per my engineer – I must cut into the shell of the pool quite a bit to tie the pool and spa together which then requires the pool to be replastered and tiled. We even tried using a trough on one of our jobs and if I recall they still wanted us to cut 9” into the pool beam." Do you think 55k is a fair ballpark price?

5) I am reading online that gas is the best option for North Florida, do you agree? Heat pump would be too slow, right? How slower than gas? And pricewise?

6) Would you suggest the spa should be at the same level or higher level than the pool? I feel that a higher level allows you to have a nice waterfall with lighting effects, but shouldn't it cost more to build higher? Or actualy cheaper cause you need to dig shallower hole? But more cost to pump water in the spa if it has a higher level? It would be good to have an estimate of the extra cost per year for a pool 1 foot above the ground, but i guess it is negligible. It would be also relatively harder to enter since you need to step over.


Thank you
Best
VenexianoView attachment 460051View attachment 460052View attachment 460053View attachment 460054View attachment 460055

We are building our third pool in Florida- Suncoast country (moved into third home this year). So here's my experience

1) recirculating pump, spillway from spa to pool. Is that a bad idea? Not at all. We are doing that in this pool (construction to begin in 3 weeks)

2) Same cost to build a system that heats up the spa and (optionally) heats up the pool? Our builder quoted us the same cost. In our system, it's the spa that spills over to heat the pool. Without the spa, it would take longer to heat the pool. Some if that being the temperature of the heated water and how fast it gets delivered into the pool.

3) Which material were you suggesting for my case? Ours is the same as the pool, 4000 psi shotcrete.

4) I emailed a pool contractor, he said it is gonna cost ~55k or more to add the spa and gas line. That is for a 6’ x 8’ or 7’ x 7’ spa in Concrete (but shotcrete not gunite).
Our pool spa area is 8 x 8 circular. It's not broken out as a separate cost. The Pentair MasterTemp 400,000 BTU gas heater (propane) is $4,200. We are also installing a Pentair A&A G4 Eco in-floor circulation system ($2500).
I suspect you are getting a fair estimate if you are using a highly reputable company. One thing to consider is their ability to complete the contract. If you want the project completed on time, by a knowledgeable crew and subcontractors, the costs are higher.

5) Heat pump would be too slow, right? How slower than gas? And pricewise? Our weather south of Tampa and north of Ft Meyers is warmer than yours. Our last pool disappointed us with the time it took for a heat pump, so this time we are going with propane. The pool builders said the system installation costs were similar but the operating costs were slighty more favorable to the propane. Of course, you also have to weigh in the cost of the propane tank and propane delivery fee. Larger tanks don't need filling as often so that saves the delivery fee. Do check with your local suppliers to get the true costs. We were surprised to learn there is a tank shortage. We ordered the propane tank in Jan 2022 and it was finally delivered in July. Our neighbor ordered theirs in April and is still waiting.

6) Would you suggest the spa should be at the same level or higher level than the pool? You are probably overthinking too much in regards to cost effectiveness. Design it in a way that you want it to function for you to enter and exit the spa and go with what you would like to see. There is something to be said for eye apeal. Our last pool was changed by the builder to reduce the size due to HOA restrictions. Hubby approved and I didn't get the memo during a confusing move for us. For 10 years, whenever I looked at it all I saw was regrets over having to compromise. I would have preferred a different orientation instead of a reduced size. So if your budget permits, get what you want to enjoy using. You have to look at it every day, all day. Make yourself happy.

-----
Other notes: We have a dedicated hot tub. Are you sure you don't want that instead? A pool spa that needs time to heat up is never going to replace a dedicated hot tub spa. Its not going to have the same jetted experience or the same comfort in seating. But that doesn't mean it won't serve a specific function. We are choosing to get the pool spa due to aging and our need for physical water therapy. The hot tub soothes our aches and pains. It's comfortable and always at the ready.

The pool spa can be heated to a lesser temp (92-94°F and will offer us room for a stretching and PT/yoga water routine. It's a place to warm up before entering the main pool for aerobics. It's also a place for entertaining family when they visit. We don't want the grandchildren using our hot tub as a "heated pool". So they will have the pool's spa instead. Also nice to have the extended "warm spa" when we have family reunions. Then the hot tub isn't getting overloaded or overused. We won't feel guilty, locking it when the teens/younger kids are about as they will have the option of splashing about in the heated pool spa if they need to warm up.

 

[venexiano]

THank you for your answers. I feel like a dedicated hot tub with some camouflage or actual brick walls like the pics on the link user Guinness posted could be the best thing pricewise and a decent aesthetic compromise. I will start a separate post on camouflage and fake waterfalls. Now I have a couple of basic questions on difference between in ground spa and dedicate hot tub:

1)Sandi you are saying that the "The pool spa can be heated to a lesser temp". Are you saying that it is an option to have low temperature, or that in general pool spa cannot reach a temperature as high as hot tubs?

2) Why pool spa reaches heats up slowest than spa? Given the same size of hot tub and spa, shouldnt it take the same time, assuming the heating method is the same? Sandi, are you using gas or electrical for hot tub? And what for the pool spa?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ven,

With a standalone spa, it stays hot all the time. They have covers and are insulated underneath so once they are hot, they stay hot with very little additional cost.

I installed one at my house and expected a drastically increased electrical bill. I did not even see a noticeable increase. It is almost like magic

Stock gunite spas are just not all that comfortable and unless customized have just a few jets. Even cheap standalone spas have many jets.. They are almost un-countable in the more expensive models.

The main thing that in-ground gunite spas have going for them is that they look cool. So, you need to decide if your goal is to impress your neighbors or is it to have a great therapeutic experience.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[SandiMacD]

1)Sandi you are saying that the "The pool spa can be heated to a lesser temp". Are you saying that it is an option to have low temperature, or that in general pool spa cannot reach a temperature as high as hot tubs?

We keep our hot tub spa at 101° year round. It has a cover and that preserves the temperature. Costs to keep it heated add maybe $6-8 a month to our electric bill.
We will be using the pool spa infrequently in winter, except mayby holidays with visiting kids and grands. We would then heat it up on selected days and times using propane. It will not stay heated year round.
In summer we plan to use the solar to keep both the pool and pool spa at a basic temp of 90-94°F. This is based on what solar was able to heat our pools up to in our other FL homes between May and Oct. The gas would be used to heat the pool spa a bit higher- say around 101, same as the hot tub. That way the kids and teens (and others) can sit and soak to warm up.

On cloudy and rainy days, the solar would only heat our pool to about 84-86°F. So if we didn't supplement with a heating source, that would be too low for a pool spa.

2) Why pool spa reaches heats up slowest than spa? Given the same size of hot tub and spa, shouldnt it take the same time, assuming the heating method is the same? Sandi, are you using gas or electrical for hot tub? And what for the pool spa?

Our covered, dedicated hot tub spa on 220v will heat up newly filled water from 76° to about 100° by the end of the day. Our last hot tub was on 110v and it took until the next morning to heat up. They both use electricity, which is common to all hot tubs. Your electral panel voltage and the number of gallons in the hot tub will determine how fast it heats up.

What I meant, was the dedicated hot tub was already at 101°F. A pool spa is different. You would need to turn on the heat source and wait for it to heat up. Depending on the gallons and the type of heating source and it's power to produce heat, the time to heat up a pool spa will vary. One neighbor's pool spa took almost 2 hours. Another neighbor's pool spa was about 40 minutes.

Heating a pool spa will also depend on how the pool spa is set to spillover. This will be my first pool spa. We've not had them in previous pools. Our two neighbors have them. One on propane and one on heat pump. I believe there is the ability to close off the spillway and just recirculate the pool spa to keep that warm. Or you can opt to have the heated spa water spill over into the pool and warm that up as well. But because the pool is thousands of gallons and the spa is hundreds of gallons, the pool will not be as warm as the spa. Perhaps if you ran in 24/7, they would be the same temp. But that would be very, very expensive.

Someone with more experience can correct me on how long it takes to heat up pool spa. That will be a new undertaking for us.

 

[phonedave]

We keep our hot tub spa at 101° year round. It has a cover and that preserves the temperature. Costs to keep it heated add maybe $6-8 a month to our electric bill.

I installed my hot tub at the same time I refurbished my central air (new compressor & air handler).

My electric bill went down. Whatever was added by my hot tub was more than covered by the new air conditioning.

It really is not a whole heck of a lot to run that hot tub (and my is at 103F right now)

 

[venexiano]

Ok, so I got a quote for an acrylic inground spa that spills into my pool. Quote includes Jandy IQ 904-PS automation center with two actuators and web connect (more details on the quote see this thread). My 18k gallon pool currently has a variable speed pump, and the spa will be another ~400 gallons. He is quoting me a second pool pump for the spa, which makes sense because of the many jets ( 18 jets, acrylic spa model 505 here). I wanna make sure I am gonna change the speed of the jets from the app, so I do need at least one pump with variable speed. Should the second pump be variable speed or not? The contractor keeps saying that spas don't want variable speed pumps. I feel like that once I turn on "spa mode" (i.e. water level drops on spillway and so the spa heats up and doesn't share water with the pool) the pool could either: (1) recirculate water using the variable speed pump, and in that case I will not able to use an app to change the speed of jets; (2) not recirculate water in the pool and spa will be in series with the fixed speed pump, in that case I can change speed of jets, but pool water would not recirculate. Assuming spa is not used many hours per day or week, I guess option (2) is still fine, as long as I remember to turn off spa mode (that I will remember otherwise I would pay $$$$ for heating). Hopefully there is an "auto shut down spa mode" function in the automation center. In short, should I get a second pump with variable speed so that can go for (1), or probably no point cause spa probably needs the 2 pump in series to have extra hydraulic head for those 18 jets anyways?

 

[wireform]

In the winter months as soon as you change the valve position and the spillover starts up you'll loose all $$$ you just used to heat the spa.

 

[venexiano]

I guess with two pumps I can keep the two body separated and use the recirculating mode in each separated body if i am planning to use the spa again the day after. But honestly, I can measure the Temperature and I can bet in winter over 24 hours the spa temperature will drop to the same temperature I would have if spill on the pool, or just marginally higher. I don't think there is a $$$ difference in the two approaches (two separated bodies or a single one) unless I use the spa every 6 hours that would never happen or occasionally on weekends