I need some coaching on water testing

[Quant]

I have given up on going to Leslies to get my water tested. I am really sick of the anti-phosphate hard sell every time I have them look at my water. This is my second year with the pool. Last year I got by with barely a clue, tabs, and a Pool RX capsule. I drained three months ago as TDS was off the charts.

About a month ago my CYA tested 30 at Leslies and then last week they reported it at 50. In that time I only ran maybe 9 chlorine tablets through the float and I did not shock with Chlorine. I am still using tabs because I am just now transitioning to the TFPC method.

My own CYA testing is challenged.

I mixed the solution and dropped into the meeter tube with the black dot and it got pretty faint around 50, maybe disappeared around 48 but came right back when I stepped out of the shade and into the sun. Background lighting affects this test a lot. I added more down to about 40-43 before it was gone for good. The instructions say "until the black dot just disappears" Does that mean in bright light and when the dot stays gone or just fades back and forth?

Also, my test kit came with enough solution to test CYA about twice. Is there a better source for CYA testing reagents?

Also, my TA came up at 80 last month, and then 90 last week. My test today, done twice, read 120 and my PH was 8+ It more slighter a deeper red than the top of the scale. We have some nasty wind here in Arizona for the past could days and the pool was a mess. I put half a gallon of acid in, turn the pump on, and cleaned up the pool and will test again in a few hours. Would the junk from the wind moved TA or PH like that? My PH is always climbing, but my TA has been fairly stable.

My chlorine is a 1.2 FC / .2 CC right now. I will probably start a slam after PH is corrected because of the wind we have had.

31K Gal in ground plaster pool shaped like a peanut--10ft deep on one end.
Sand Filter
It has a non-working salt system--was that way when we bought it last year and have not investigated it.
My test kit is a Taylor K-2006

Thanks in advance.

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello and welcome to TFP! Yes, the black dot needs to disappear. That K-2006 is the regular size, while the 2006"C" has more reagents. No problem. I would recommend going to the TF-100 link below in my signature (don't forget to update yours too) and order the CYA reagent refill - or anything else you may use a lot. Just look on their site, they have very good prices.

Definitely bring that pH down ASAP. Use the Poolmath calculator to help you determine how much acid to use. That should also bring the TA down a little. Remember evaporation and refills tend to increase both. Agreed - your FC is way too low and a recipe for algae. A SLAM is probably a good choice. So lower the pH to about 7.2 and commence with the SLAM. (Link below)

Now one final thought - make sure you have a good CYA number. Also consider if it's really high (80 or above), you might chose to exchange some water to lower the CYA. That will also require less bleach for your SLAM. If you have any doubt about the CYA being over 100, follow the TFP diluted test starting at Step #8. Pool School - CYA. Even if you have to wait on those refills, you do need to be sure about the CYA.

Proper lighting is critical for the CYA test, so you want to test for CYA outside on a bright sunny day. Taylor recommends standing outside with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body. Use the mixing bottle to combine/gently mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then gently mix again. Then, while holding the skinny tube with the black dot at waist level, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. After the first test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate the CYA reading.

 

[cfherrman]

Fill the cya test to every line and glance at the dot, more consistent and we round up the result anyway.

Every puck adds 1.1 cya in your pool, so 9 adds about 10 cya.

If I were you discontinue pucks but keep them if their 99% tri clor, they are useful but not every day use items. Use bleach from now on, also use the 10 fc mil test, the 2006 is a tiny kit but accurate.

Pour a 1.5 gallons of 8.25% bleach in your pool right now, trickle in from of a return.

Run your cya as 50 and test cya again in a month, use pucks to build it back up to 50 when needed.

When your pH is 8+ figure it as 8 and hit it with acid and test again 30 mins later to make sure it's in the 7's

It's easy, you will get the hang of it.

 

[Divin Dave]

CYA is the most difficult test because the available light makes a difference in the results.

This is how you do it.

Stand with your back to the sun.
Hold the tube at waist level
Only use 1 finger and your thumb to hold the tube (multiple fingers block out more light).
add the solution into the test tube until the black dot disappears

As a beginner, its not a bad idea, to then dump the solution back into the squirt tube and repeat the test a couple of more times.
Take the average of the multiple tests and use that.

 

[Quant]

Now one final thought - make sure you have a good CYA number. Also consider if it's really high (80 or above), you might chose to exchange some water to lower the CYA. That will also require less bleach for your SLAM. If you have any doubt about the CYA being over 100, follow the TFP diluted test starting at Step #8. Pool School - CYA. Even if you have to wait on those refills, you do need to be sure about the CYA.

Thanks for the welcome.

I am pretty sure the CYO is somewhere in the 40-50 range. This thread has given me that much that I am doing it right. I don't see how I could have so high of CYA right now. The water is only 3 months old and I have not put that much chemicals into it. I did move it up to 20 CYA with liquid CYA Leslie's sold me when I refilled. Since then I just used a floater, and less chlorine that I should have. I have not used the pool yet this season--once this slam is done its open for business.


All answers where helpful--Thanks!

 

[triptyx]

You'd be surprised at how fast pucks can spike your CYA, especially in AZ where we don't partially drain and close our pools every year (sometimes closed pools get just the right bacteria blend to eradicate the CYA over the winter!). I'd not be surprised if you were at 50 already with three month old water using pucks.

Your best bet now is to stop using those pucks and switch to plain, concentrated, unscented bleach (not Clorox, no fragrances, and not "splashless" or "EZ-Pour"). Using pucks will have you needing to drain and refill by this time next year, if not sooner.

 

[cfherrman]

Pool stores are very inconsistent at testing. The Taylor test has a +/- of 10 ppm if I recall.

30 - 40 last pool store test, plus 10 from pucks equals 40-50, and the pool store test 50.

That's just to put in perspective, once you get your kit we will see the actual cya value.

 

[Quant]

You'd be surprised at how fast pucks can spike your CYA, especially in AZ where we don't partially drain and close our pools every year (sometimes closed pools get just the right bacteria blend to eradicate the CYA over the winter!). I'd not be surprised if you were at 50 already with three month old water using pucks.

Your best bet now is to stop using those pucks and switch to plain, concentrated, unscented bleach (not Clorox, no fragrances, and not "splashless" or "EZ-Pour"). Using pucks will have you needing to drain and refill by this time next year, if not sooner.

Yes, a few days ago I SLAMed the pool with the assumption that CYA was at 50. I used liquid Chlorine, which our local grocery store sells in 10%, and the dose recommended in the app had it up to 27ppm in the evening. I woke up about 5am and tested it at 26.5 and it made it through the whole of the next day above the target of 20. I rushed the SLAM because I wanted to get the pool working and I did not have a serious problem with it--It was just down to almost zero chlorine and was a little cloudy after the heavy winds. The water is as crystal clear now as I have ever seen it and chlorine should be below 8 tomorrow and the pool will be open. But I have burned out the FAS DPD drops in my test kit--hopefully Leslie's sells replacements to keep me testing until my TF-100 kit gets in.

Thanks,

 

[triptyx]

Awesome. Make sure that you perform an OCLT test (Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)) when you get your TF-100 and double check your CYA assumption. SLAMs can't be rushed - they have to complete fully or you'll be right back to SLAMing in short order, and you'll want to make sure you're maintaining chlorine levels for the correct CYA reading.

 

[proavia]

You may want to consider staying out of Leslie's - they haven't really helped you out in the past.

I do know A&M Corsons carrys Taylor reagents if you are in need of some fast. They have a big rack of Taylor products - from individual reagents to full testkits. Of course, they charge retail, but if you're in a pinch... There is one on Warner and McQueen - several other locations in the valley too. They also carry 12.5% liquid chlorine - 4 gallon pack (returnable bottles and carrier - so no tossing the empties in the trash).

 

[Quant]

I have crossed over from being annoyed to angry at Leslies for such bad advice. Its not that begrudge them a profit, but they are misleading people. Fortinatly the TF-100 came in quick. I will check out Corson's

 

[DeanP66]

For a refill of the CYA reagent, you might consider this one:

https://www.amazon.com/TAYLOR-TECHNOLOGIES-INC-R-0013-CYANURIC/dp/B003VZORS2/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1524952232&sr=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=taylor+cya+testing+reagent

You can do a ton of CYA tests with that without worrying about running out. I got one myself for the same reason. It's like 8 of the 2 oz bottles that the Taylor K2006C comes with.

 

[proavia]

I have crossed over from being annoyed to angry at Leslies for such bad advice. Its not that begrudge them a profit, but they are misleading people. Fortinatly the TF-100 came in quick. I will check out Corson's

I don't have them test my water - just go there for chlorine, acid and the occasional reagent, part, etc. Their acid prices are good for the 4 pack. Chlorine went up to 16.99 for a 4 pack refill, so unless you have a 'buy 3 get 1 free' coupon it's actually a little cheaper to get the 2 pack of 10% from Walmart for $6.44 (just be sure to check the date codes).

 

[Quant]

I don't have them test my water - just go there for chlorine, acid and the occasional reagent, part, etc. Their acid prices are good for the 4 pack. Chlorine went up to 16.99 for a 4 pack refill, so unless you have a 'buy 3 get 1 free' coupon it's actually a little cheaper to get the 2 pack of 10% from Walmart for $6.44 (just be sure to check the date codes).

Fry's is carrying 10% for 6$ for two gallons right on the shelf in their small pool section. But I did go to Corson's and they charged me 18.35 for the 4 gal of 12.5% (before the container deposit). Using the calculator in the TFP app its actually slightly cheaper to get it from Frys though practically no difference in cost.

How old is too old for Chlorine?

 

[cfherrman]

These are kinda guesses

6 months for 6%
3 months for 8.25%
2 for 10%
1 for 12.5%

 

[proavia]

Thanks, I'll have to check out Fry's. I forgot they carried 10% chlorine.

I guess the $18.35 was with tax?

The higher the percentage the quicker it degrades to a lower concentration. The 12.5% stuff at Corson's is usually less than a week old this time of year. The guy told me that Hasa delivers it once or twice a week directly from their plant in Eloy.

 

[Quant]

Thanks, I'll have to check out Fry's. I forgot they carried 10% chlorine.

I guess the $18.35 was with tax?

The higher the percentage the quicker it degrades to a lower concentration. The 12.5% stuff at Corson's is usually less than a week old this time of year. The guy told me that Hasa delivers it once or twice a week directly from their plant in Eloy.

[FONT=&quot]I did not look a my receipt carefully I just remember that is what the Corson's guy said. He might have included tax in it--I'll have to check. If that included tax, then the 12.5% would be marginally cheaper than Fry's 10% but probably not enough for a special trip. It was nice for my overnight slam I did a few days ago (fished a rat out of the skimmer) but I will probably just stay on the 10% for regular maintenance. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]BTW, since you are in AZ, how much Chlorine are you consuming this time a year? I am burning up almost a gallon of 10% every two days in my 31k pool. TFP is working great, and I don't mind the 10 min I spend testing and balancing every other day, but I am using a lot more chemicals than I did than with my tablet floater last year. I understand why TFP is better--even the only way to do it, but I am curious if my chlorine consumption is on the mark. Replacing the defunct salt system on my pool is starting to look like a real option. [/FONT]

 

[triptyx]

Quant - what is your CYA level? Those of us in southern AZ often run 50-80CYA to provide extra protection - our sun and heat is heck on chlorine.

 

[proavia]

I'm just down the road from you. At CYA of 50, I presently use about 40 oz of 12.5% every other day. Pool is 12,300 gallons. I'm leaving CYA at 50 for now cause I'll be using some pucks when a go on vacation in a couple months (and those will up my CYA a bit).

You're in the ballpark using 128 oz efery other day as your pool is 2.5x larger. What is your CYA.

While it may seem more expensive, you aren't buying all those PS potions, letting CYA get too high or needing to do other unnecessary things to the pool.

What's wrong with your defunct salt system? Is the cell inop or are there other possible issues? Do you have any type of automation?

BTW - keep those rats in Gilbert where they belong!

 

[Quant]

Quant - what is your CYA level? Those of us in southern AZ often run 50-80CYA to provide extra protection - our sun and heat is heck on chlorine.

I am right at about 50--maybe 45. I don't have a lot of confidence with the CYA test yet, but it is definitely well above 40.

What's wrong with your defunct salt system? Is the cell inop or are there other possible issues? Do you have any type of automation?

BTW - keep those rats in Gilbert where they belong!

The Salt system was not used when I bought the house a year ago. I have not looked at it at all. It has some controls but I just assumed it was broken. It may in fact just need the cell replacement and I have not been motivated to look a it until now. My to do list is pretty large so I won't get to it for a while yet.

Thanks!