Hydraulic cement types?

[Brant]

Curious if anyone knows if there is much difference in hydraulic cement brands?

I have some pockets in the shell that need to be filled. These are deeper pits that were dug out when they were removing excess gunite. Deep enough that I dont want to fill with plaster.

Can I use any brand of hydraulic cement or is there a specific brand or type I should use on a pool gunite shell?

 

[ajw22]

Any hydraulic cement should do to fill holes.

 

[Brant]

Any hydraulic cement should do to fill holes.

Is there a maximum thickness you can do with hydraulic cement? Some of this is deep enough for more gunite.

 

[JamesW]

FastSet Non-Shrink Grout. (No. 1585).

FastSet DOT Mix. (No. 1244)

https://www.quikrete.com/pdfs/fastsetproductsselectorguide.pdf

QUIKRETE® - Product Selector Guides

The QUIKRETE® Companies are the largest manufacturers of packaged concrete in the United States and an innovative leader in the commercial building and home improvement industries.

www.quikrete.com

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Non-Shrink-Construction-Grout-50-lb-Concrete-Mix/1000251845

Quikrete 50 lb. Non-Shrink Precision Grout 158500 - The Home Depot

Quikrete 50 lb. Non-Shrink Precision Grout is a high strength, non-metallic, non-shrink grout designed for a variety of grouting and anchoring applications. It can be mixed to a plastic, flowable or fluid

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Precision Non-Shrink Construction Grout | Sakrete

When your structural grouting project demands superior performance, turn to Precision Non-Shrink Construction Grout. This highly-engineered concrete grout can be mixed to fluid, flowable and plastic consistencies to allow for a wide array of applications and is non-corrosive and non-metallic for...

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Anchor Cement | Sakrete

Custom-formulated for high strength and rapid set time, Anchor Cement is the pro-grade solution for securing bolts, railings, posts, and more to existing concrete in minutes.

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Quikrete 10 lb. Anchoring Cement 124511 - The Home Depot

Quikrete 10 lb. Anchoring Cement is a pourable, fast setting, expansive cement that develops strength greater than concrete. This cement expands to fill voids in concrete to ensure that it locks into place. Quikrete 10 lb. Anchoring Cement is used for anchoring essentially anything metal into...

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[JamesW]

Quikrete 55lb. FastSet DOT Mix Cement 124456 - The Home Depot

Easily revitalize your cracked and faded driveway with the use of this Quikrete FastSet DOT Mix Cement.

www.homedepot.com

Quikrete 50 lb. Non-Shrink Precision Grout 158500 - The Home Depot

Quikrete 50 lb. Non-Shrink Precision Grout is a high strength, non-metallic, non-shrink grout designed for a variety of grouting and anchoring applications. It can be mixed to a plastic, flowable or fluid

www.homedepot.com

 

[JamesW]

QUIKRETE® 55 lb. Commercial Grade Dot Mix

Find the QUIKRETE® 55 lb. Commercial Grade Dot Mix at Ferguson online for delivery or pickup at a Ferguson store near you.

www.ferguson.com

23814 IH 10 W
San Antonio, TX 78257-1755

Quikrete FastSet All-Crete Anchoring Cement 55 lb Mfr# 1585-54 - Ace Hardware

A duel purpose product. As a fluid grout meeting ASTM C 1107, it is used for the anchoring and grouting of anchor bolts, equipment, retrofitted reinforced steel, steel column bases, bearing plates, pre cast concrete keyways and other installations that require high early and high ultimate...

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[Brant]

This is what I'm dealing with.

QUIKRETE® 55 lb. Commercial Grade Dot Mix

Find the QUIKRETE® 55 lb. Commercial Grade Dot Mix at Ferguson online for delivery or pickup at a Ferguson store near you.

www.ferguson.com

23814 IH 10 W
San Antonio, TX 78257-1755

Quikrete FastSet All-Crete Anchoring Cement 55 lb Mfr# 1585-54 - Ace Hardware

A duel purpose product. As a fluid grout meeting ASTM C 1107, it is used for the anchoring and grouting of anchor bolts, equipment, retrofitted reinforced steel, steel column bases, bearing plates, pre cast concrete keyways and other installations that require high early and high ultimate...

www.acehardware.com

Do you think it would bond well to gunite? Here is what I'm dealing with.

 

[JamesW]

I think that the fastset nonshrink grout would be the best choice.

 

[JamesW]

Plaster Thickness.

The cementitious surface coating should have an average minimum ‘thickness’ of ⅜" and an average maximum thickness of ¾".

Though some fluctuation may exist across the cementitious surface coating, most of the cementitious surface coating thickness should remain within these tolerance levels.

Small areas of highs and lows, spanning no more than several inches in diameter per occurrence, are allowed an additional
tolerance.

This would include the filling of small holes, pits, or dig-outs (indentations around plumbing fixtures or lighting fixtures) in the substrate.

https://www.nationalplastererscouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/interior-finish-tolerances.pdf

 

[JamesW]

Precision Non-Shrink Construction Grout | Sakrete

When your structural grouting project demands superior performance, turn to Precision Non-Shrink Construction Grout. This highly-engineered concrete grout can be mixed to fluid, flowable and plastic consistencies to allow for a wide array of applications and is non-corrosive and non-metallic for...

www.sakrete.com

 

[JamesW]

Quikrete 20 lb. FastSet Non-Shrink Grout 158520 - The Home Depot

Quikrete 20 lb. FastSet Non-Shrink Grout can be used for anchoring and grouting anchor bolts, steel column bases, bearing plates, pre-cast concrete keyways and floor leveling. This grout can be mixed to a plastic (trowelable), flowable or fluid consistency. Quikrete 20 lb. FastSet Non-Shrink...

www.homedepot.com

FastSet® Non-Shrink Grout | QUIKRETE: Cement and Concrete Products

The QUIKRETE® Companies are the largest manufacturers of packaged concrete in the United States and an innovative leader in the commercial building and home improvement industries.

www.quikrete.com

QUIKRETE® FastSet® Non Shrink Grout (No. 1585-09,1585-20) is designed for structural concrete repairs from 1/4" to 24" deep. Features a 30 minute set time, non shrink characteristics and rapid strength gain. Can be mixed to a plastic, flowable or fluid consistency. Exceeds ASTM C 928 R-3 and ASTM C 1107.
Available in:
20 lb. pails - 90 per pallet
50 lb. pails
60 lb. bags - 56 per pallet

Use for Anchoring and Grouting:

• Anchor Bolts
• Bearing Plates
• Floor Leveling
• Pre-cast Concrete Keyways
• Steel Column Bases

Compressive Strength ASTM C109 - Fluid:

• 3 Hours--2000 psi (13.8 MPa)
• 24 Hours--4000 psi (27.6 MPa)
• 7 Days--5000 psi (34.5 MPa)
• 28 Days--6500 psi (44.8 MPa)

Compressive Strength ASTM C109 - Flowable:

• 3 Hours--2500 psi (17.2 MPa)
• 24 Hours--4500 psi (31.0 MPa)
• 7 Days--5500 psi (37.9 MPa)
• 28 Days--7500 psi (51.7 MPa)

Compressive Strength ASTM C109 - Plastic:

• 3 Hours--3000 psi (20.7 Mpa)
• 24 Hours--5000 psi (34.5 MPa)
• 7 Days--6000 psi (41.3 MPa)
• 28 Days--8000 psi (55.1 MPa)

Fast-Set Non-Shrink Grout, 60-Lb.

Quikrete 60 Lb. Fast Set Non Shrink Grout, Designed For Structural Concrete Repairs From 1/4″ To 24″ Deep, Sets In 30 Minutes, Can Be Mixed To A Plastic, Flowable Or Fluid Consistency, Use For Anchoring & Grouting, Anchor Bolts, Steel Column Bases, Bearing Plates, Pre-Cast Concrete Keyways &...

www.truevalue.com

 

[JamesW]

This is what I'm dealing with.

Do you think it would bond well to gunite? Here is what I'm dealing with.

You can fill in the deep spots or let them fill in the spots with plaster.

It might be about equal in structural integrity.

What does the builder say?

 

[Brant]

Thickness.

The cementitious surface coating should have an average minimum ‘thickness’ of ⅜" and an average maximum thickness of ¾".

Though some fluctuation may exist across the cementitious surface coating, most of the cementitious surface coating thickness should remain within these tolerance levels.

Small areas of highs and lows, spanning no more than several inches in diameter per occurrence, are allowed an additional
tolerance.

This would include the filling of small holes, pits, or dig-outs (indentations around plumbing fixtures or lighting fixtures) in the substrate.

https://www.nationalplastererscouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/interior-finish-tolerances.pdf

View attachment 599536

I'm the builder.

The gunite company said they would come fill these voids. Do you think that this is an acceptable solution? I'm just concerned with bonding issues.

 

[JamesW]

The gunite company said they would come fill these voids.

Fill with what?

What does the plaster company recommend?

 

[Brant]

Fill with what?

What does the plaster company recommend?

Shoot over with gunite. Do you think that would work or be a bad repair?

I need to speak with a plaster company. I'm not at that point though because gunite was just completed and still need to do coping and tile.

 

[JamesW]

Procedures for Minor Gunite or Shotcrete Repair in Swimming Pools - Pool Engineering

Both minor and major repairs, as well as extensive remodeling, are common in existing swimming pool structures. Removal and replacement of portions of a

www.pooleng.com

 

[JamesW]

I need to speak with a plaster company.

See if the plaster company prefers to use plaster or to have the gunite filled in first.

What plaster mix will you use?

See what the plaster mix manufacturer recommends.

How much total patch concrete do you think will be required in cubic feet?

 

[Brant]

Procedures for Minor Gunite or Shotcrete Repair in Swimming Pools - Pool Engineering

Both minor and major repairs, as well as extensive remodeling, are common in existing swimming pool structures. Removal and replacement of portions of a

www.pooleng.com

So based on this, I'm probably good to allow them to shoot over these areas with gunite.

 

[Brant]

See if the plaster company prefers to use plaster or to have the gunite filled in first.

What plaster mix will you use?

See what the plaster mix manufacturer recommends.

How much total patch concrete do you think will be required in cubic feet?

I'm not certain about total amount needed. I guessed around 12 cubic feet (more or less).

Planning to use NPT stonescapes (mini pebble) or Pebbletech pebblesheen

 

[JamesW]

Planning to use NPT stonescapes (mini pebble) or Pebbletec pebblesheen

Check with NPT and Pebbletec to see what they recommend.