How to attach bonding lugs

[dugtoni]

Hey all!

Just got my wilbar optimum AGP installed today. I’m trying to figure out strategy for bonding the pool. I’ve seen other folks who have attached bonding lugs to the upright supports around the pool. With my pool, I’m not really sure how I would attach one of those things (pic attached). Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Steve

 

[dugtoni]

So I found this info about bonding an optimum pool:

• Bonding the Optimum pool can be achieved by attaching anywhere on the wall or extrusions with a stainless steel self-tapping screw or a stainless steel bolt on the anchor plates. Stainless steel is required to minimize the effects of any possible galvanic action.

So if I’m understanding that correctly, I just need to screw in a bonding lug directly into wall of the pool and attach my copper wire to that and it is considered bonded? I understand I will need to attach to the skimmer and filter as well, but where to attach on the pool is what I’m unsure about and just don’t want to do something stupid. Thank you for any help.

 

[1poolman1]

If you can use one of the screws/bolts at the bottom of the wall as in your picture, it would work. Don't attach anywhere a fastener can get to the liner.

 

[dugtoni]

If you can use one of the screws/bolts at the bottom of the wall as in your picture, it would work. Don't attach anywhere a fastener can get to the liner.

Thank you for the reply! So you are suggesting I remove one of those bolts, and then use it to attach the bonding lug to that footer piece? I am a total noob so just want to make sure that is what you are suggesting? That seems like it would work well and I never even thought about it.

Also probably a dumb question, but could removing that bolt to attach the lug have any potentially disastrous consequences if the pool is already filled with water?

 

[1poolman1]

Thank you for the reply! So you are suggesting I remove one of those bolts, and then use it to attach the bonding lug to that footer piece? I am a total noob so just want to make sure that is what you are suggesting? That seems like it would work well and I never even thought about it.

Also probably a dumb question, but could removing that bolt to attach the lug have any potentially disastrous consequences if the pool is already filled with water?

With the pool filled it is best to leave it alone. If you could drill through the flat plate on the concrete paver, you could attach there.

 

[dugtoni]

With the pool filled it is best to leave it alone. If you could drill through the flat plate on the concrete paver, you could attach there.

So drill a hole through that plate into the paver? And then screw the lug into that hole? Thanks again for the advice

 

[1poolman1]

So drill a hole through that plate into the paver? And then screw the lug into that hole? Thanks again for the advice

Use a drill bit that you can throw away. You'll need both a metal bit, that will be ruined when it hits the paver, and a masonry bit to make room for the screw in the paver. If you try to not drill a hole in the paver, it could split as the screw wedges in.

 

[dugtoni]

Use a drill bit that you can throw away. You'll need both a metal bit, that will be ruined when it hits the paver, and a masonry bit to make room for the screw in the paver. If you try to not drill a hole in the paver, it could split as the screw wedges in.

Gotcha, thanks! As an alternative do you think it would be a bad idea to just put a screw through the metal spline in between the panels?

 

[1poolman1]

Gotcha, thanks! As an alternative do you think it would be a bad idea to just put a screw through the metal spline in between the panels?

Not seeing the actual pool wall, yes, bad idea. Having the pointed end of a screw towards the liner doesn't seem like something you want to do.

 

[dugtoni]

Not seeing the actual pool wall, yes, bad idea. Having the pointed end of a screw towards the liner doesn't seem like something you want to do.

The pool wall is pretty thick, at least a few inches. I think I would be well short of hitting the liner unless I used a really long screw. There is some foam layer a couple inches thick they put in the wall

 

[Mdragger88]

No screws towards the pool!
Bonding connections should be bolted together anyway.

 

[dugtoni]

No screws towards the pool!
Bonding connections should be bolted together anyway.

Thanks for the input. Do you have any advice on how I could achieve that in my situation? I was considering screwing in the lug based on the info Optimum provides for bonding: "Bonding the Optimum pool can be achieved by attaching anywhere on the wall or extrusions with a stainless steel self-tapping screw"

 

[Mdragger88]

Just watched the install video for that pool - which is cool btw .
It does look like stainless screws would be the easiest remedy provided u use ones that are definitely incapable of reaching the liner. I would aim for screwing them into the anchor plate, center of the joint in the wall - this way you don’t affect the integrity of the wall finish or the foam in anyway.

 

[Hafnhaf]

IIRC, you must have at least two threads making contact with the metal of the pool. Typically that means a machine screw and nut with a locking device of some sort (lock nut, lock washer, etc). Self-tapping screws are usually too coarse to get you two threads in the sheet metal. Also, the bonding clamps need to be burial-grade listed.

 

[ggarcia815]

Just watched the install video for that pool - which is cool btw .
It does look like stainless screws would be the easiest remedy provided u use ones that are definitely incapable of reaching the liner. I would aim for screwing them into the anchor plate, center of the joint in the wall - this way you don’t affect the integrity of the wall finish or the foam in anyway.

My Township requires me to attach DB bonding lugs by way of nut and Bolt (no Self Tapping screws. My pool is up and filled with water . How could i attach lugs to uprights in four locations now ?? i cant see how . Please Help

 

[Mdragger88]

My Township requires me to attach DB bonding lugs by way of nut and Bolt (no Self Tapping screws. My pool is up and filled with water . How could i attach lugs to uprights in four locations now ?? i cant see how . Please Help

Drill & tap for a bolt? How would they know there’s no nut? Not saying its the right thing to do but…
Otherwise you would have to disassemble the pool to comply.
Is this an optimum pool?

 

[ggarcia815]

Its the Hampton 21 RD pool i purchased from pool Factory. I was going to used self tapping SS screws but inspector wants nuts and bolts.
I cannot see remove an upright one at a time to install - afraid that would compromise pool. Other options might be to remove resin caps and attach lugs - but
that means running bonding wire behind upright and kind of defeats purpose of Direct Burial process . Not to mention adds about 30 feet of bare copper #8 wire . Ideally the installers should have prepped four uprights for this process - they know this is required in NJ.

 

[ggarcia815]

I have an update - I spoke to NJ Code Regulatory in Trenton - they said I can use - SS Self Tapping 10/32 machine thread screws. and still pass.

 

[phonedave]

I have an update - I spoke to NJ Code Regulatory in Trenton - they said I can use - SS Self Tapping 10/32 machine thread screws. and still pass.

In terms of code, the most restrictive code wins.

If your municipality says you need thermite welded connections, guess what, you are thermite welding.

In THEORY you should be fine with 10/32 self tapping, since the requirement is usually not a bolted connection, but two threads engaging. 10/32 screws need 1/16" to engage 2 threads. So if your legs are thicker than 1/16" then you should be fine engaging the required number of threads. Not all inspectors understand these nuances and may just be of the mindset "self tapping is wrong, bolted is OK". Hopefully I am wrong, and your municipality permits it, but I live in NJ as well, and have dealt with more than a few inspectors in various townships, so ....

Just in case, what you can do it remove the top cap and install the bond lug at the TOP of the leg, so you can get a nut and machine screw on it. You can install it on the interior or exterior, then run your bond wire down INSIDE the leg, and bring it out through a drilled hole near the base.

If you do the lug on the interior, it is going to look a lot cleaner, but you will likely have to remove the top caps to show the inspector what you installed.