Perhaps looking for a product that aren't called pavers would offer additional options. For instance, my local Lowes offers these:
... which I have used for load bearing supports (but not supporting a pool).
HELP please. Despite leveling ground, pavers have cracked.
- Thread starter lastevns
- Start date
... which I have used for load bearing supports (but not supporting a pool).
Ha. That is what we finally figured out. Yep, looked at that and it is PERFECT. Also it's not within local distance. I suppose I can look at outlying cities. May have to. I am looking at some other retaining wall stones that are in stock. Think this would work?
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The 4" 'Olde Manor' block above is a better choice than a 2" block for sure.
Perhaps not what you want to hear, but 'pouring your own pads' offers the strongest option, in my opinion.
As we are talking about having the top surface level with the ground, excavate, pour in mixed concrete (from a bag +water) and viola!
A drawback is that maximum strength of newly poured concrete is achieved after 28 days of curing. So, you would need to wait to fill the pool. But, by doing this yourself you could embed rebar in the pads easily enough. Pour in 1" of concrete, level it, 'float' some rebar on top of that 1" layer, and then pour the rest of the concrete on top. (This would all happen consecutively, don't wait for the first layer to set.) Nobody says you have to build wooden forms if you pour concrete in a dug hole. And by pouring directly in the hole you are certain that there are no voids under the pad as the wet concrete will conform to the earth.
Perhaps not what you want to hear, but 'pouring your own pads' offers the strongest option, in my opinion.
As we are talking about having the top surface level with the ground, excavate, pour in mixed concrete (from a bag +water) and viola! A drawback is that maximum strength of newly poured concrete is achieved after 28 days of curing. So, you would need to wait to fill the pool. But, by doing this yourself you could embed rebar in the pads easily enough. Pour in 1" of concrete, level it, 'float' some rebar on top of that 1" layer, and then pour the rest of the concrete on top. (This would all happen consecutively, don't wait for the first layer to set.) Nobody says you have to build wooden forms if you pour concrete in a dug hole. And by pouring directly in the hole you are certain that there are no voids under the pad as the wet concrete will conform to the earth.
Huh
Huh, it is in stock in Corona. Not too far away. Low on stock. But, will see if they have 14. Thank you!
Edit: nope, they will only let me buy 2.
Yeah, this might be doable. Do you think it would be stronger than a 4" stone? And if the rebar were included how long would I wait to put weight on the cement?The 4" 'Olde Manor' block above is a better choice than a 2" block for sure.
Perhaps not what you want to hear, but 'pouring your own pads' offers the strongest option, in my opinion.
A drawback is that maximum strength of newly poured concrete is achieved after 28 days of curing. But, by doing this yourself you could embed rebar in the pads easily enough. Pour in 1" of concrete, level it, 'float' some rebar on top of that 1" layer, and then pour the rest of the concrete on top. (This would all happen consecutively, don't wait for the first layer to set.) Nobody says you have to build wooden forms if you pour concrete in a dug hole. And by pouring directly in the hole you are certain that there are no voids under the pad as the wet concrete will conform to the earth.
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If you are prepared to pour your own, embed some rebar in the concrete, observe the curing time, your pads will almost certainly be better than any 'store bought' blocks. The rebar is key. And your pads could be a bit thicker than 4" if you chose, say 5".
Keep the rebar short enough so that the ends are fully encased in concrete, at least 1" cover on the ends. And rebar in this situation should be closer to the bottom of the pad than the top side.
Keep the rebar short enough so that the ends are fully encased in concrete, at least 1" cover on the ends. And rebar in this situation should be closer to the bottom of the pad than the top side.
I'm not a concrete professional.
But house foundation walls are typically built on top of poured footings in much less than 28 days waiting. Sometimes they start in 2 days.
From what I can tell, typically you could expect about 75% strength in 7 days and what is considered 100% in 28 days. Try to keep the exposed concrete damp for that week. Something like wet burlap (or wet old towels etc) would work. Add water periodically.
I made some blocks (with rebar) last month and used some "plastic grass" cuz that was handy and it kept the concrete wet. One time when I peeled back the plastic grass covering to look at the concrete underneath there was a small frog sitting there looking at me! I guess it was wet enough.
But house foundation walls are typically built on top of poured footings in much less than 28 days waiting. Sometimes they start in 2 days.
From what I can tell, typically you could expect about 75% strength in 7 days and what is considered 100% in 28 days. Try to keep the exposed concrete damp for that week. Something like wet burlap (or wet old towels etc) would work. Add water periodically.
I made some blocks (with rebar) last month and used some "plastic grass" cuz that was handy and it kept the concrete wet. One time when I peeled back the plastic grass covering to look at the concrete underneath there was a small frog sitting there looking at me!
I guess it was wet enough.
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- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I have those big blocks in my yard, also from Lowe's. I don't have any data on them, in terms of their compressive strength. "Compressive strength" refers to how much "squishing" force they can take before they fail (break apart or crack). I also don't know how much the force from the pool legs are applying. So I'm afraid I won't be of much help. I'd hate to tell you they were strong enough if they aren't. The spec's on Lowe's website state they are concrete, but they also state they are made of recycled material. I don't know what that means, but it doesn't sound as strong as a "virgin" block poured of concrete. So it's hard to say. I'd only be assured if someone else here with a similar AG pool has used them without issue.
Go on Lowe's site and search for "pier block." Pier blocks are specifically intended to support weight. There are many types. That would be the better product genre than something in the landscaping department.
OK, all that said, while sniffing around at Lowes, I saw this, and it looks promising. It's called a TuffBlock. Though I'm not quite sure how well the pool leg would fit:
From the same page:
$8.95
- An individual TuffBlock deck block has been designed to support over 1,700 lbs and has successfully been tested to support over 11,000 lbs yet weighs only 11/2 lbs
- Designed to accept 2 In. x 4 In., 2 In. x 6 In., 2 In. x 8 In. joists and 4 In. x 4 In. posts
- TuffBlocks are made of high strength closed-loop recycled polyolefin material with an ultra-high UV rating
I'm just spit-ballin'... @kimkats, @JamesW, @Casey, @Mdragger88... would something like this work? It's waterproof. And it's not gonna crack or split.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,901
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The old steps were set with a combination of notching out the hill, and then packing damp dirt under the pavers to fill in the support. That's the part that didn't work. The "man made" support didn't stay well compacted and started to come apart with a few seasons of rain. Same theory as you placing your supports on graded dirt vs dirt that's been there for decades/centuries. As soon as you mess with it, it's not as strong.It's funny, I'd considered the notched dirt and pavers for my hill. It looks a lot like your hill but even more steep. So, guessing they didn't hold up for you after erosion? The new stairs are beautiful. I like the contrasting red wood with the cream pavers. Clean, classic look. Sorry to hear you have to do them twice. It would be wonderful to have stairs up my hill but that's probably going to be a next year project. Love the little sitting wall, too. I hope to do something similar but with red brick. I've watched tons of videos on making one myself. They all make it look easy and I was considering trying it. After my experience with this pool, though, I'm not certain I'm believing YouTube videos anymore.
I'd always heard pools were a lot of work. I thought, "How much work can it be? You put it up. You put in chemicals every day and clean it. Easy peasy." Or.... not.
Anyway, gorgeous work. And, thanks for the words of encouragement. I agree this isn't a huge mistake. I haven't lost the initial investment (knocking on wood I get this drained before a collapse). And, you're right, we will enjoy the pool and laugh about this one day... maybe in three months when we have disposable income and cocktails again
I'm replacing them before the give way under someone (me!) and cause an injury. Plus 12" wide was not really enough for someone, well, lets just say someone not as nimble as they once were! And the hand rail makes a huge difference. These are my "gettin' old" stairs. I have some periodic light maintenance at the top of these inclines, so getting up there when I get older was going to get increasingly difficult. So I'm building them now while I can still do this kind of work. In a few days they'll be done and I'll be able to use them for two or three decades. That's effort well spent. The only saving grace about the old set is that they made getting up and down the hill to build the new set a little easier! That's why the old steps are still in place. I am removing them as I go, but using them in the meantime.
That sitting wall was built by the former owner's landscaper, who designed and built my yards. I lucked out in that the design sense and taste of the previous owners and their contractors match mine perfectly. I love everything they did, including all their color choices, especially my pool. That sitting wall is actually cinder block, mortared together in that semi-circle shape. Then the flagstone was mortared to that. Just the face, ends and bench top. The cinder blocks are still visible from behind, but they're mostly covered by the dirt from the hill.
The pavers you found that are the reddish color-go look at them before you commit to them. I seem to remember them being a bit "crumbly" and if you drop them they break very easy. See how many are broken on the pallet.
GURRRRRRR on them only letting you buy 2 of the ones we know will work! WHY only 2?? gurrrrr
Pouring your own=could be done. The hard part of that would be having the holes all ready to fill and making sure it is at least 4" deep. BUT you would need it that deep if you were using the pavers so..............
If you go with the mixing of your own make sure to let us know so we can give you some tips on how to mix.
Now that pillar @Dirk found............those are VERY interesting. Lets get a couple of math minded people on that idea. @JoyfulNoise @ajw22 since Dirk already pinged some others I would have also.
From Dirk's post above:
"OK, all that said, while sniffing around at Lowes, I saw this, and it looks promising. It's called a TuffBlock. Though I'm not quite sure how well the pool leg would fit:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/BuildTuff-TuffBlock-1/1001436780
From the same page:
$8.95
GURRRRRRR on them only letting you buy 2 of the ones we know will work! WHY only 2?? gurrrrr
Pouring your own=could be done. The hard part of that would be having the holes all ready to fill and making sure it is at least 4" deep. BUT you would need it that deep if you were using the pavers so..............
If you go with the mixing of your own make sure to let us know so we can give you some tips on how to mix.
Now that pillar @Dirk found............those are VERY interesting. Lets get a couple of math minded people on that idea. @JoyfulNoise @ajw22 since Dirk already pinged some others I would have also.
From Dirk's post above:
"OK, all that said, while sniffing around at Lowes, I saw this, and it looks promising. It's called a TuffBlock. Though I'm not quite sure how well the pool leg would fit:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/BuildTuff-TuffBlock-1/1001436780
From the same page:
$8.95
- An individual TuffBlock deck block has been designed to support over 1,700 lbs and has successfully been tested to support over 11,000 lbs yet weighs only 11/2 lbs
- Designed to accept 2 In. x 4 In., 2 In. x 6 In., 2 In. x 8 In. joists and 4 In. x 4 In. posts
- TuffBlocks are made of high strength closed-loop recycled polyolefin material with an ultra-high UV rating
LoneWolfArcher
Bronze Supporter
If I had an AGP, these are what I would use: https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...148-c-5647.htm?tid=4517422468075098985&ipos=1
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,901
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I would not use the Tuffblock.
One of the purposes of using wider pavers or pieces of wood under the legs is to spread the load over a larger surface area. A leg creates a point load that will sink into softer ground. The larger surface area spreads the load and the pounds per square inch on the ground will be less.
This install already has questionable ground that was tilled and packed. The Tuffblock is not wide enough for my liking. The larger the blocks the more chance this install ahs of staying stable.
One of the purposes of using wider pavers or pieces of wood under the legs is to spread the load over a larger surface area. A leg creates a point load that will sink into softer ground. The larger surface area spreads the load and the pounds per square inch on the ground will be less.
This install already has questionable ground that was tilled and packed. The Tuffblock is not wide enough for my liking. The larger the blocks the more chance this install ahs of staying stable.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
- Jul 21, 2013
- 64,901
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
They have the cutouts which means it spreads the load on less area then a true 1 sq foot block.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
There's the issue of how the straps would fit, too. From an Index installation manual:
- If the ground is not concrete (asphalt, lawn or earth) you must place a piece of pressure-treated wood, size
15” x 15” x 1.2”, under each leg and flush with the ground. The U-shaped side supports must be placed in the center of the pressure-treated wood and with the wood grain perpendicular to the support leg (see drawing 8).
Though I'm not sure where one is supposed to find a 16"W PT board?!
Two 2x8s layered perpendicular on top of two more 2x8s might work? (Back to wood.)
Pouring a footing would be great, but man, that is a lot of work.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
How about this guy? Though finding stock, on a lot of these types of products, is going to be tough:
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
These are made for mobile homes, maybe there is something in that industry that could work:
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,635
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Or give these guys a call. They're 2 hours from you. If they don't have what you need, maybe they'll know who does:
Or these guys, they're only 20 mins away:
Or these guys, they're only 20 mins away:
Pavers, Freeway Building Materials, Riverside, California, CA
Freeway Building Materials, provides a wide range of landscaping materials including pavers, retaining walls, concrete blocks, masonry and stone veneer.
www.freewaybuildingmaterials.com
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