Guidance replacing O-rings and deep cleaning my Hayward S200?

[sccm_sysadmin]

Hello all,

I recently inherited my pool and Hayward S200 filter in February; it was originally installed in 2007. I came across the "deep cleaning" procedure listed in the sticky above and I'd like to do that (since I'm quite certain it's never been done!), AND replace a bunch of leaking O-rings. It is doing a great job as a filter but the constant leaks are annoying; it leaks from basically every o-ring except the top 2 parts (the pressure relief and the access dome) -- the main o-ring leaks, the connections to the multi-port leak, and the bottom drain all leak.

I've ordered a bunch of replacement o-rings and the tool to remove the top access port and they should be here within the week.

Schematic for my filter can be found here.


My questions are this:

• How far up the filter dome does the sand go? Which leads me to this question: If I remove the top half of the filter (after unscrewing the 5-million bolts ) to replace the main o-ring, will I have to remove or replace any sand?

• There seems to be a "top diffuser" directly under the access dome (part 11 in the schematic I linked). From a thread I found here on TFP it looks like that would block access to inserting a garden hose for the deep cleaning. I also see that it can be removed, but I'm not sure how it would re-connect deep in the sand without introducing a ton of sand into the pool, assuming the sand comes up that high. Am I missing something here?

Thanks for any guidance you can give me.

 

[Richard320]

I'd empty the sand using a shop vacuum before you split the case apart. You can dump it out on a tarp or something to keep it from scattering and reuse it.

From your manual, Step 4

Carefully pour in correct amount and grade of filter
sand, as specified. Sand surface should be leveled
and should come to about the center of the flange of
the filter tank. Use no more than the recommended
amount of sand.

 

[sccm_sysadmin]

I'd empty the sand using a shop vacuum before you split the case apart. You can dump it out on a tarp or something to keep it from scattering and reuse it.

From your manual, Step 4

Carefully pour in correct amount and grade of filter
sand, as specified. Sand surface should be leveled
and should come to about the center of the flange of
the filter tank. Use no more than the recommended
amount of sand.

So theoretically the sand should come to about where the bolts are, if I'm reading that correctly. Interesting -- I figured it would be filled almost to the top with sand.

Whenever my new parts arrive I'll be sure to come back and update this thread with plenty of photos. Thanks!

I might have to break out the pressure washer too; the filter has mildew growing all over the outside shell.

 

[Patrick_B]

Generally speaking, SFs are full no more than 2/3 the way up. This one is a little different, so I'm glad you came on and posted, as I've seen pictures of these before and wondered.

As I read it, the sand level would be right to the seam of where the two parts mate up.

 

[sccm_sysadmin]

Ok, so I got a bunch of parts in today and since I had the day off, I decided to tackle the job.

As expected, the sand was just under the flange where the hemispheres mate, so no need to remove or replace any sand. That's the good news. Unfortunately I forgot to order the special tool that removes the top piece so I just removed the entire top hemisphere to perform the deep cleaning. So far, no issues.

I replaced:

• The main o-ring
• The pressure-relief o-ring (very top of the filter...not leaking but I replaced it "just because", and yes I lubed it)
• The drain plug and plug filter (fixed the leak, yes I lubed the new gasket)
• Every bolt, washer, and nut. The previous ones were pretty cruddy so I replaced all of them with exact drop-in replacements (stainless 1/4"-20, 1.75" long), and I added a split lock-washer to each (probably not needed but it makes me feel better).

I also re-lubed the o-rings that connect the filter to the multi-port, which fixed their leak. Didn't need to replace those o-rings, which was good since I didn't order any of those.


After doing the deep clean I was super careful to clean out all the sand and gunk that got into the main o-ring channel, and I made sure the new main o-ring was completely covered in lubricant and was perfectly seated in the channel where it fits. I put the top back on, aligned it, and installed the new hardware as if I were putting on a new tire (tightening down the bolts in a star-like pattern). I tightened them once 'not too tight'.

Now it leaks worse from before, from the main o-ring.

So I went back on all 24 bolts and tightened them as tight as they'd go. Still leaked.

I unscrewed all the bolts, removed the top, verified no sand on the mating surfaces or the o-ring, and re-set it in place, put bolts back in, blah blah blah. Long process. STILL LEAKS.


Am I missing something here? Did I torque down the bolts too much? Maybe something else? It's pretty annoying that I spent many hours on this today and it's still leaking.

I know I promised photos; I'll upload some in a bit.

 

[Patrick_B]

So, is it leaking more out of one side than the other? I know its a real pain, but make sure you tighten everything evenly. Thats a lot of mating surface, and even though there are lots of bolts, it's probably easy to get something uneven in the tightening scheme.

The skeptic in me wonders if one half or the other hasnt "warped" or otherwise changed shape over time, and gotten worse with disassembly. If everything is good, with proper tightening sequence and torque, I cant guess what is wrong. Very frustrating...

 

[sccm_sysadmin]

Video of final leak (16MB gif file, sorry for file size!): Note how it is leaking onto the pump right below the filter (difficult to see but it's happening, you can see a corroded area on the pump where the filter is leaking onto it in the 2nd photo below).

Images of inside of filter before any cleaning; this is exactly how it looked right after removing the top hemisphere of the filter:

 

[Patrick_B]

That almost looks like it's just not tight enough...

 

[sccm_sysadmin]

That almost looks like it's just not tight enough...

Oh I agree. But I definitely held a ratchet on the bottom to keep the bolt steady, and tightened the nut with a second ratchet up top as tight as I could get it (and while I'm not exactly a weight-lifter, I have a least a little strength). There was a nice "squeak" sound as I got it super tight, it just wouldn't go any tighter.

 

[Richard320]

Question -- did you just go around the filter tightening bolt after bolt, or did you alternate?

Speaking as a mechanic, the rule is to hand-tighten everything and then go back and forth on opposite sides, starting at the center and working out.

Like this, except yours is circular. Same principle holds.

If you start in one spot and just move in a circle around the perimeter, the gasket can get bunched and the last few bolts won't be able to seal it tight. If you start in the middle, if the gasket moves at all, it will move outward and the last bolts will just lock it down.

 

[sccm_sysadmin]

Question -- did you just go around the filter tightening bolt after bolt, or did you alternate?

Speaking as a mechanic, the rule is to hand-tighten everything and then go back and forth on opposite sides, starting at the center and working out.

Like this, except yours is circular. Same principle holds.

<picture snipped>

If you start in one spot and just move in a circle around the perimeter, the gasket can get bunched and the last few bolts won't be able to seal it tight. If you start in the middle, if the gasket moves at all, it will move outward and the last bolts will just lock it down.

If I recall correctly, I inserted and tightened nice and tight the bolt where the leak actually is (near the ports for the multiport), then the one directly across from it (so south, then north north), then following that same pattern, east and west. Then I finished the rest in a circle format. Perhaps I should undo them all and do a true star pattern and alternate opposite sides until it's totally done?

That one bolt next to the multi-port is a serious PITA to deal with. Unless you completely unscrew the bulkhead fittings on the filter you have to put the bolt in from the top instead of the bottom, and the nut is very difficult to reach to allow you to tighten the bolt.

 

[Zrock]

you may have gotten a bad gasket.. If it were me i would add a small bead of silicone to top and bottom grove tighten let it sit for a few hours and turn it back on. Also a torque wrench would come in handy increasing in 10-20lb increments so everything is 100% the same

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If you can, inspect the o-ring groove with the tip of your finger/finger-nail. See if you detect any scratches or grooves. If the mating/sealing surfaces are compromised in anyway, no amount of lube is going to work

Also, are you sure the o-ring is correctly sized? Did you buy the exact replacement?

Perhaps user Hayward Pool can help as he is a Hayward tech that frequents the site.

 

[Sk1dM4rk]

You may have the bolts too tight. They just need to be tight enough to stop the leaks. Not necessarily as tight as you can get them. That may deform the casing or gasket to the point that it can't do its job.

I'm speaking from experience on my Hayward EC-75 DE filters. If I am speaking inaccurately your model of sand filter, just ignore me.

I use a star pattern as I tighten the bolts and at startup I just snug them down. Any leaks get snugged a little more. I do this until I get no fast drips. Most of the time, it is bone dry, but I get an occasional drip as the pressure increases in between "bumping".

Good luck.

 

[sccm_sysadmin]

If you can, inspect the o-ring groove with the tip of your finger/finger-nail. See if you detect any scratches or grooves. If the mating/sealing surfaces are compromised in anyway, no amount of lube is going to work

Also, are you sure the o-ring is correctly sized? Did you buy the exact replacement?

Perhaps user Hayward Pool can help as he is a Hayward tech that frequents the site.

I bought this o-ring replacement kit. While I am unsure if it is an "official" Hayward o-ring, it does seem to fit the groove exactly.

You may have the bolts too tight. They just need to be tight enough to stop the leaks. Not necessarily as tight as you can get them. That may deform the casing or gasket to the point that it can't do its job.

I'm speaking from experience on my Hayward EC-75 DE filters. If I am speaking inaccurately your model of sand filter, just ignore me.

I use a star pattern as I tighten the bolts and at startup I just snug them down. Any leaks get snugged a little more. I do this until I get no fast drips. Most of the time, it is bone dry, but I get an occasional drip as the pressure increases in between "bumping".

Good luck.

I was also wondering if I had cranked them down too much -- if I get time I'll try to back them off a little and see what happens.

 

[sccm_sysadmin]

I actually emailed Hayward technical support about this and they got back with me a few days ago. I linked them to this thread (for photos and more info) and they noticed that the pump I'm using might be too powerful for this particular sand filter. He said that with 40ft of head resistance (apparently this is average for a residential pool), my pump puts of 54gpm of flow, which is more than the 44gpm designed flow rate for the S200 filter. So while my pressure isn't too high (15psi), it still likely just has too much water moving through it and can't handle it.

Unfortunately I had to replace my pump motor in-between the time I emailed them and when they got back with me, and I replaced it with the same model. In the future whenever this new pump motor dies I'll replace it with a slightly less powerful variable-speed version.

Assuming this 'overflow' issue is actually the problem, I'll just live with it. The leak drains into the woods behind my pool, and I bet I'm losing more water through evaporation than the leak so it isn't a big deal.