Got my Taylor Test (K-2006) - Yikes?

[kundderek]

Hello All - Did my intro post last week so I'll keep the intro brief-ish. Had a 14,700 pool with 7x7 spa built in 2017. Only recently did I take an interest in pool chemistry because I was questioning whether my pool guy was treating my salt water pool like a chlorine pool. He hadn't added salt in a few years and was always telling me it didn't need it. My SWG seemed to be always set to 0% and I noticed my vsp had been running about 8 hours per day at 3250 rpm with no low speed usage.

I told him I was switching to a 24/7 vsp schedule (currently 6a-9a at 2750, 9a to 2p at 1500, and 2p to 6a at 1200). Aquanaut runs 6a - 9a, then skimmer on for the rest of the day. I currently have my swg set to 20% Means I'm producing chlorine 4 hours per day. I can't go any higher than that without eventually tripping a service code (Jandy PCL 1400 - model year 2017).

So, I added some salt last weekend (my first time doing so) because my salt test strips suggested I needed it. Mistake. I added 160lbs vs the strips-chart recommended 300lbs. Used the same strips 12 hours later and only got a 1250ppm. Tested again 8 hours later and was back to 680ppm. Threw the strips in the trash.

Pool guy came out three days later and said he was getting 3800ppm for the salt.

Taylor Kit arrive today. I got the K-2006 and the K-1766 (for salt).

Here are my results from 7p this evening: (first time using the kit so there could be a drop or two error here or there). Was going to test again tomorrow am.
FC 7.2
CC 0.4
pH 7.7
Total Alkalinity 160
Calcium Hardness (gird your loins) 1200 - my local water & power tests very high for calcium in their output. Looks like I had done a pool math entry in August 2018 and had CCH 775 then. Have never drained the water.
CYA - this was tough...I was off the scale. I'm guessing it was around 175. I have another set of test strips that had me between 150 and 200 as well.
Salt - 4200
Water Temp 84F
Pool Math CSI 0.640

So...is this bad? I'll offer that everything seems to be running ok. My pool guy washes the filter 3 to 4 times per year. Recently cleaned the salt cell. Never had any swimmers complaining of irritation to eyes or skin.

Had a guy quote $995 to recycle / renew the water. Says he'll get the hardness down to 300 or so, treat everything, and add back salt. Maybe it's time?

Thanks in advance for any useful comments or chuckle-inspiring ones.

 

[Texas Splash]

So...is this bad?

Depends how you look at it. At least now you know for sure with your own accurate testing. Yes, the CH and CYA are at a point the pool could use a major water exchange. The CYA will require a very high corresponding FC level to prevent algae (per the FC/CYA Levels , and that high FC will make testing the pH difficult. The high CH, well, it comes with the region, but yeah, it's about time to lower it as well. A CH that high means you would have to be extremely vigilant to keep the pH and TA quite low to prevent scale in the pool and on the cell plates.

Most people in hot areas do their water exchanges in the winter when it's safer for the exposed plaster. You could do a no-drain routine. I'll post an article below. But if you are able to entertain exchanging some water, that would be my first choice. I personally wouldn't waste money on water treatments as they are received here with mixed reviews, but that is certainly an option you can consider as well.

Let us know which direction you wish to go and we'll be glad to walk you through the next steps.

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[kundderek]

Thanks for your comments. I did an FC test again this am and saw that I was at 6ppm which means I've lost 1.2 FC overnight. Planning to SLAM following the Pool Math app. Says I should shoot for FC @ 13 but that I need to keep an eye on my ph as well. I'll read through the process a bit more extensively before starting the SLAM. I tried to run my SWG at 100% and it threw a service code after 5 minutes. I took it back to zero then up to 50% and it threw a service code again (always 120 or 121) after 5 to 10 minutes. Currently have it set to 25% with no service errors.

I also ran a calcium test with the Taylor kit off my garden hose and it was just over 300ppm which wasn't as bad I thought it would be. Drain and refill seems the way to go. I'm going to reach out to my local water municipality Monday to discuss any parameters they have for doing so. I'll reply back once I've gathered some more info.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Hold off on the SLAM until you sort out your water exchange. A SLAM is not really practical with a high CYA level. There's no reason to do a diluted CYA test as you'll need to drain and much as possible to lower CH.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

When doing the FC test, use a 10 mL water sample to save reagents. Add one scoop of powder and each drop of R-0871 counts at 0.5.

Draining in your area may be challenge with a pool just as it is in my area. Not sure you you get around the TDS requirement. See the attached document...might also inquire about discharge into sewer:

https://www.burbankca.gov/documents/174714/1196790/Pool+Draining+Flier+7-3-20.pdf/7d28f630-fe50-a0f7-0614-587bcf20354d?t=1618365963975#:~:text=The%20permit%20also%20requires%20that,is%20discharged%20to%20the%20street.

 

[kundderek]

Ok, will do. I sent the test results to my pool guy commenting that I had just bought a kit so that i could better understand my pool chemistry. Told him I wanted him to see the results so that he could verify any of my results when he is out at my pool this Monday. Told him that draining and refilling seemed like the next step to consider.

He replied with, “As long as the water is holding chlorine, and not getting algae, I wouldn't replace the water. I have some pools with 40 year old water, and they're still doing fine. You will, however, need to drain it partially to lower the salt level. We won't be there until Monday, and I'll check out the salt cell,.and let you know what we need to do.”

He seems very nonchalant about the results. I’ll still look into the water exchange and report back after I hear from my pool guy Monday.

Hold off on the SLAM until you sort out your water exchange. A SLAM is not really practical with a high CYA level. There's no reason to do a diluted CYA test as you'll need to drain and much as possible to lower CH.

 

[kundderek]

When doing the FC test, use a 10 mL water sample to save reagents. Add one scoop of powder and each drop of R-0871 counts at 0.5.

Draining in your area may be challenge with a pool just as it is in my area. Not sure you you get around the TDS requirement. See the attached document...might also inquire about discharge into sewer:

https://www.burbankca.gov/documents/174714/1196790/Pool+Draining+Flier+7-3-20.pdf/7d28f630-fe50-a0f7-0614-587bcf20354d?t=1618365963975#:~:text=The%20permit%20also%20requires%20that,is%20discharged%20to%20the%20street.

Thanks for that info. Super helpful. Maybe the $995 water recycle / renewal bid is the way to go. I’ll make some calls Monday to get more info from the city and this water renewal co.

 

[kundderek]

A week has passed. Pool guy suggested it may be time to get a new salt cell. Mine is getting inconsistent results...can run at 20% mostly all day but anything higher will trigger a service code error of 120 or 121. What's interesting is that if I don't address the service code, it will eventually un-service code itself and run for awhile before tripping again. The cell is 7 years old so I'm not mad that I need to get a new one.

In order to prep my pool for the eventual arrival of the new cell, I ended up draining 18" of water (approx 4k gallons) slowly over 2 days. Just last night around midnight it was back to level. I added a gallon of 10% Chlorine (home depot) ran the filter overnight and checked my chems this am.

Here's where I'm at. I'll show the previous reading from one week ago first, then the new ones along with some notes:
6/21 FC 7.2
6/28 FC 10 (given my CYA, target range is said to be 5-13)
6/21 CC 0.4
6/28 CC 0.00
6/21 pH 7.7
6/28 pH 8 (added one gallon of 14.5% muriatic acid - likely splashed a drop onto my skin and have a nickel sized light burn.
6/28 pH 5 hours after Acid 7.5 (couldn't decide if I was seeing 7.4 or 7.6)
6/21 Total Alkalinity 160
6/28 Total Alkalinity 160
6/28 Total Alkalinity 5 hours after Acid (seemed to test higher at 180 which doesn't make sense from what I've read about it's relationship to pH and Muriatic Acid. I'll try this one again later this evening. Maybe I messed up with the drops.)
6/21 Calcium Hardness 1200
6/28 Calcium Hardness 925 - I know it's still high but I'm glad it fell some.
6/21 CYA off the chart anywhere from 175 - 200.
6/28 CYA 90-100
6/21 Salt - 4200
6/28 Salt - 3400 (this has come back anywhere between 3200 and 3400 between Taylor Kit and Aqua Pure display)
6/21 Water Temp 84F
6/28 Water Temp 79F
6/21 Pool Math CSI 0.640
6/28 Pool Math CSI 0.93
6/28 Pool Math CSI after adjusting for post acid-add new pH 0.35 to 0.40

How we doing?

 

[Texas Splash]

Tough trying to balance numbers with a CH and CYA that high, but you already know that. Just keep doing what you are doing until the water exchange or treatment can happen.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

FYI...When FC is between 10 and 20 ppm, the test will read higher than actual. The reading will be off by more at higher the FC levels. Try to test when FC is at lower levels.

Did you do the diluted CYA test? If not, start at Step #8 at the link below:

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric acid (CYA) is the chemical name for the product commonly called “pool water stabilizer” … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Deb04]

i'm wondering why your CYA is so high when you are chlorinating with a SWG. Do you think your pool guy was adding powder chock or tabs?

 

[kundderek]

FYI...When FC is between 10 and 20 ppm, the test will read higher than actual. The reading will be off by more at higher the FC levels. Try to test when FC is at lower levels.

Did you do the diluted CYA test? If not, start at Step #8 at the link below:

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric acid (CYA) is the chemical name for the product commonly called “pool water stabilizer” … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

I wasn’t aware of this but it definitely helps. Looks like I’m just a tad under 100. I’ll check again when my r13 replacement drops come in. Ran out of them yesterday.

 

[kundderek]

i'm wondering why your CYA is so high when you are chlorinating with a SWG. Do you think your pool guy was adding powder chock or tabs?

Two things come to mind. 1) Definitely over the life of the pool he has added the chlorine floater and tabs at times. I will ask that he not do that anymore now that i understand the relationship between the tabs and increased cya as a newly minted apprentice taylor kit chemist haha. 2) Ive commented before that I am suspicious that he wasn’t really using my swg but was simply treating my pool with liquid chlorine each week.

Once i get the salt cell replaced i will be vigilant about monitoring the settings to dial in seasonal %s so that we shouldn’t have to make any regular liquid additions.

 

[kundderek]

A week has passed. Pool guy suggested it may be time to get a new salt cell. Mine is getting inconsistent results...can run at 20% mostly all day but anything higher will trigger a service code error of 120 or 121. What's interesting is that if I don't address the service code, it will eventually un-service code itself and run for awhile before tripping again. The cell is 7 years old so I'm not mad that I need to get a new one.

In order to prep my pool for the eventual arrival of the new cell, I ended up draining 18" of water (approx 4k gallons) slowly over 2 days. Just last night around midnight it was back to level. I added a gallon of 10% Chlorine (home depot) ran the filter overnight and checked my chems this am.

Here's where I'm at. I'll show the previous reading from one week ago first, then the new ones along with some notes:
6/21 FC 7.2
6/28 FC 10 (given my CYA, target range is said to be 5-13)
6/21 CC 0.4
6/28 CC 0.00
6/21 pH 7.7
6/28 pH 8 (added one gallon of 14.5% muriatic acid - likely splashed a drop onto my skin and have a nickel sized light burn.
6/28 pH 5 hours after Acid 7.5 (couldn't decide if I was seeing 7.4 or 7.6)
6/21 Total Alkalinity 160
6/28 Total Alkalinity 160
6/28 Total Alkalinity 5 hours after Acid (seemed to test higher at 180 which doesn't make sense from what I've read about it's relationship to pH and Muriatic Acid. I'll try this one again later this evening. Maybe I messed up with the drops.)
6/21 Calcium Hardness 1200
6/28 Calcium Hardness 925 - I know it's still high but I'm glad it fell some.
6/21 CYA off the chart anywhere from 175 - 200.
6/28 CYA 90-100
6/21 Salt - 4200
6/28 Salt - 3400 (this has come back anywhere between 3200 and 3400 between Taylor Kit and Aqua Pure display)
6/21 Water Temp 84F
6/28 Water Temp 79F
6/21 Pool Math CSI 0.640
6/28 Pool Math CSI 0.93
6/28 Pool Math CSI after adjusting for post acid-add new pH 0.35 to 0.40

How we doing?

I’ve spent the past three days working on one aspect of pool chemistry - TA. I was somewhere between 160 to 180 Friday am with ph of 8 initially after my partial drain and refill.

I’ve added 2 gallons of 14.5% muriatic acid diluted with pool water via a Home Depot bucket - 1 gallon friday am and another Saturday am. It’s been satisfying to focus on one aspect and watch the chemicals have the prescribed effect.

This morning my ph made it back to a respectable 7.6 and TA was 130. I added another 64oz an hour ago and as i did with the previous adds, I’m aerating with my waterfall. Shooting for a target TA of 100 and pH of 7.6 unless I hear otherwise.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Sounds like a great plan, just don't allow pH to drop below 7.0 when adding MA. You may be battling High TA fill water. Have you tested it?

 

[kundderek]

Sounds like a great plan, just don't allow pH to drop below 7.0 when adding MA. You may be battling High TA fill water. Have you tested it?

Ya, I've been making sure I don't get below 7.0. Yesterday's add (only half gallon) seemed to have little impact. I was at 7.8 and 130 (again) this am. I added another diluted gallon and am aerating. Will check again tomorrow.

I just tested the water that comes from our garden hose. We have an automatic fill on our pool and I assume it draws from the same source as the garden hose. Got a 7.4 and 200 (!) from it. I don't keep the auto-fill on but rather turn it on when I need to add water. Hadn't added any since I refilled this past Thursday / Friday prior to all of this testing. But its good to know now that when I use it, I will see a bump in alkalinity that I'll need to treat. Thanks!

 

[Griswald]

Why are you allowing that "pool guy" to touch your pool? He's the one that got you into this problem state originally.

 

[kundderek]

Why are you allowing that "pool guy" to touch your pool? He's the one that got you into this problem state originally.

You are correct, but I'm still training up on the pool chemistry aspect and don't want to drop him until I am comfortable with all of it.

For the $125/mo that I'm paying him - which some have noted is pretty cheap for my area - I'm still sorting out whether it's 'worth it' to have him do his once per week 10 to 20 minute visit where he skims, brushes, and checks the equipment. I still need to learn about the equipment maintenance side of the equation as well (ie pool filter, pool pump, swg cleaning, etc). He's a bit of a safety net for me at this point on some of those items I suppose.

 

[KenKasza]

Agree with @Griswald. Now that you have a test kit, use it, trust it. DUMP THE POOL GUY NOW!
Your pool guy and The TFP Methodology will never agree, Take advice from one source (TFP), multiple sources will fight each other.
You need to reduce CYA, CH, Salt. The only way to do this is a water swap as these do not evaporate.
Following TFP methods is not difficult. Ask lots of question, read and research on this site. Follow the advice of the members and you will enjoy your beautiful pool and it will be Trouble Fee.

I spend an average of $30 per month for all my chemicals (Salt, Muriatic Acid, Boric Acid).
I dumped the pool store a year ago. Following TFP guidelines I have never had to SLAM...even after a flash storm flooded out my pool. 24 hours later pool was clean and ready for swimming.

You can do it...we're here to help.

 

[kundderek]

Agree with @Griswald. Now that you have a test kit, use it, trust it. DUMP THE POOL GUY NOW!
Your pool guy and The TFP Methodology will never agree, Take advice from one source (TFP), multiple sources will fight each other.
You need to reduce CYA, CH, Salt. The only way to do this is a water swap as these do not evaporate.
Following TFP methods is not difficult. Ask lots of question, read and research on this site. Follow the advice of the members and you will enjoy your beautiful pool and it will be Trouble Fee.

I spend an average of $30 per month for all my chemicals (Salt, Muriatic Acid, Boric Acid).
I dumped the pool store a year ago. Following TFP guidelines I have never had to SLAM...even after a flash storm flooded out my pool. 24 hours later pool was clean and ready for swimming.

You can do it...we're here to help.

I appreciate the vote of confidence! Agreed on the CYA and CH. I think my Salt is ok now? it's on the higher side of the acceptable range at 3400ppm but within serviceable limits for the SWG, I believe. Still though, I plan to do the water swap in the offseason and maintain the other levels through Summer.