Had new hot tub installed one month ago and had a local, established electrical outfit install breaker and run wire to tub. It works fine without issues, but I had no idea that GFCI is now required. Electrician did not add GFCI or disconnect. Contacted company and no one has gotten back to us. How serious and common is this and what is the actual risk as it seems the code was changed recently? Not sure how important it is to pursue this. I imagine there are thousands of tubs installed from years ago that have not been updated. Thanks!
Electrician installed no GFCI breaker for new tub. Should I be worried?
- Thread starter wrysys
- Start date
Very important.
Do not use the tub until the problem is corrected.
Do not use the tub until the problem is corrected.
Are you sure they did not install a GFCI? They could have put one in the panel.
If they did not, a GFCI is extremely important, I myself would not use the tub without one.
As for a disconnect in sight of the tub. My brother-in-law, who is a licensed master electrician, used to own his own company, is now a part owner of a larger general contracting firm, yadda, yadda, yadda, swears that around here the code is interpreted as only needing a disconnect for a commercial property. The whole point of a disconnect in sight of the tub is so you can kill power and work on the tub and notice if somebody comes by and turns it back on. Sort of a half way LOTO. He still puts disconnects in, because he thinks they are good idea, but says they are not required.
Anyway. A GFCI is very important to your safety when using the tub. A disconnect is important too, but not as critical as the GFCI.
If they did not, a GFCI is extremely important, I myself would not use the tub without one.
As for a disconnect in sight of the tub. My brother-in-law, who is a licensed master electrician, used to own his own company, is now a part owner of a larger general contracting firm, yadda, yadda, yadda, swears that around here the code is interpreted as only needing a disconnect for a commercial property. The whole point of a disconnect in sight of the tub is so you can kill power and work on the tub and notice if somebody comes by and turns it back on. Sort of a half way LOTO. He still puts disconnects in, because he thinks they are good idea, but says they are not required.
Anyway. A GFCI is very important to your safety when using the tub. A disconnect is important too, but not as critical as the GFCI.
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wry,
I find it hard to believe that any hot tub was installed without a GFCI breaker.
Show us a pic of the outside connection between the tub and the outside electrical box. Show us a pic of your main house circuit breaker panel and the breaker that feeds your hot tub.
Thanks,
Jim R.
I find it hard to believe that any hot tub was installed without a GFCI breaker.
Show us a pic of the outside connection between the tub and the outside electrical box. Show us a pic of your main house circuit breaker panel and the breaker that feeds your hot tub.
Thanks,
Jim R.
photo shows breaker panel. i don't see a button. It's the center breaker with 50 amp. connection to the tub is via wire emerging from crawlspace vent. The invoice doesn't say anything about gfci installation. However on the estimate form, there is a note of :" Include with tub GFCI disconnect?" Unfortunately I was not up to speed on electrical code for hot tubs.
So what is the actual risk here?
So what is the actual risk here?
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Post pics of where the wire emerges from the crawlspace vent and at the tub. Is the wire in conduit?
If the wire is in conduit, does the conduit run all the way from the panel to the tub?
"Include with tub GFCI disconnect" sounds like a disconnect with a GFCI was supposed to be supplied or that they thought one was present at the tub already.
If the wire is in conduit, does the conduit run all the way from the panel to the tub?
"Include with tub GFCI disconnect" sounds like a disconnect with a GFCI was supposed to be supplied or that they thought one was present at the tub already.
Someone could get electrocuted and die.
conduit from crawlspace. This was buried to avoid tripping, didn't want to uncover it, but it extends a few more inches beyond what you see here into the bottom of the tub.
right....so what is the risk of electrocution? Meaning what is the probability and how often does this happen or used to happen before the recent code change.
Honestly, take this seriously.
Don’t try to minimize this so that you can forget about it.
Was this done by a licensed Master Electrician or some local goofball that you found on Craig’s list?
Your local code probably requires a GFCI and the manual probably also requires a GFCI.
Based on the fact that the person did not know that a GFCI should be used on a hot tub, I would seriously question the rest of their work.
If they claim to be licensed, did you verify their license?
You should report them to the local building code office.
Bottom line: Get it done right so that you don’t get anyone seriously injured and/or killed.
wry,
There is no recent code change... You've had to have a spa on a GFCI disconnect for at least 20 years.
Does the conduit you show coming from the crawl space go directly to the spa or does it go to a box on the wall and then a cable connects the box to the tub..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Does the unit contain an integrated GFCI?
What make and model is the tub?
Do you have a link to the manual?
What make and model is the tub?
Do you have a link to the manual?
Post a link to the previous code and the current code and when it was changed.
In any case, it does not matter what the code “used to be” yesterday, a week ago or 20 years ago, it matters what it is now.
it's a bullfrog r7. no integrated gfci that I'm aware of. The company is local and licensed, been around for 25 yrs, but I've not used them before.
Plan to get them back and make it right, but I"m trying to learn here about what it will take and why.
Plan to get them back and make it right, but I"m trying to learn here about what it will take and why.
For what it's worth, everywhere I have worked in this business (missouri, illinois, kansas, colorado, wyoming, nevada, california, and new york) requires gfci protection AND a disconnect (no less than 5ft no more than blah blah blah). The disconnect is NOT a service disconnect it is part of fire safety code so that first responders can turn it off before removing your electrocuted corpse from the deathtrap that a non-gfci protected spa can be, among other things.
Electricians do not get to interperate code, inspectors do. In no way is the requirement limited to commercial installations, unless they changed that recently. What is limited is the emergency shutoff required on commercial pumps, which residential units do not require. If the inspector in his area allows it, he is unique in my experience.
There are many places where there is no code enforcement present, as it is handled at a municipal level. In that case, you see all kinds of hokey Crud.
Electricians do not get to interperate code, inspectors do. In no way is the requirement limited to commercial installations, unless they changed that recently. What is limited is the emergency shutoff required on commercial pumps, which residential units do not require. If the inspector in his area allows it, he is unique in my experience.
There are many places where there is no code enforcement present, as it is handled at a municipal level. In that case, you see all kinds of hokey Crud.
The 2008 NEC states
680.12
Maintenance Disconnecting Means: A maintenance disconnecting means is required . . . located in sight and at least 5 ft from the
680.41
Emergency Switch for Spas and Hot Tubs: In other than a single-family dwelling a clearly labeled emergency spa or hot tub water recirculation and jet system shutoff must be supplied.
So, you need some sort of MAINTENANCE disconnect for cutting all power and if you are not in a single-family home, an EMERGENCY disconnect for the jet systems
If local fire code requires something, then it would be in the fire code.
Again, my brother in law is saying that some of the areas interpret this to mean you do not need a disconnect in sight of the tub in a residential setting.
In response to @RDspaguy and the comment about things being done at a local level, welcome to NJ. NJ has a very entrenched history of home rule. We have 565 separate municipalities in NJ. I would not be surprised if we had at least 500 different building inspection departments, all with different interpretations. I have a friend who was the electrical inspector for 3 separate municipalities. He worked in different days in each town, and had three separate sets of codes to follow. I used to manage police traffic control for contractors at one time. There are 550 separate police departments in NJ - most towns have one, each county has a separate one, there is a State one, and then there are things like the Parkway Police. I had to maintain separate billing records, contacts, pricing contracts, and know who worked in what area for each of police department. Home rule runs strong in this state. There are very little shared services amongst different municipalities.
680.12
Maintenance Disconnecting Means: A maintenance disconnecting means is required . . . located in sight and at least 5 ft from the
680.41
Emergency Switch for Spas and Hot Tubs: In other than a single-family dwelling a clearly labeled emergency spa or hot tub water recirculation and jet system shutoff must be supplied.
So, you need some sort of MAINTENANCE disconnect for cutting all power and if you are not in a single-family home, an EMERGENCY disconnect for the jet systems
If local fire code requires something, then it would be in the fire code.
Again, my brother in law is saying that some of the areas interpret this to mean you do not need a disconnect in sight of the tub in a residential setting.
In response to @RDspaguy and the comment about things being done at a local level, welcome to NJ. NJ has a very entrenched history of home rule. We have 565 separate municipalities in NJ. I would not be surprised if we had at least 500 different building inspection departments, all with different interpretations. I have a friend who was the electrical inspector for 3 separate municipalities. He worked in different days in each town, and had three separate sets of codes to follow. I used to manage police traffic control for contractors at one time. There are 550 separate police departments in NJ - most towns have one, each county has a separate one, there is a State one, and then there are things like the Parkway Police. I had to maintain separate billing records, contacts, pricing contracts, and know who worked in what area for each of police department. Home rule runs strong in this state. There are very little shared services amongst different municipalities.