Does anyone have anything bad to say about saltwater pools?????

[Dougk30]

We are just starting into our pool build and we found a new pool builder. The new pool builder is much more knowledgeable, he is the pool builder the owner of the company him and his son do all of the service. I much prefer talking to someone who knows what they are talking about, over a shiny shoe salesman who just hires out the construction work and doesn't know a darn thing about it. The only problem is the new pool builder doesn't sell salt water systems and tells me I will have problems with SWG and it will end up costing me more in the long run. So I thought I would bring to the true experts here on TFP. Does anyone have anything bad to say about salt water pool? I have had numerous different pool houses tell me numerous different things that are bad, but nobody that owns a salt water pool has anything bad to say. Below is some of the things I have been told.
Salt water is to corrosive on everything
My opinion is Baloney Sandwich
The entail cost out way the saving
From what I have seen the entail costs are not the great
It is not the much less maintenance
The people I talk to disagree
New PB says the SWG will plug up after a 5-10 years and cause major issues.
????????
New PB says a chlorinator works just as well
??????
New PB says chlorine is the same maintence and SWG does not make pool water any more stable. He says with large swim parties water will turn green
???????
New PB says SWG is a fad the will fade with time has told me that it has come and gone many of time throughout the years.


Whats everybody else thoughts I only want to have to do this once its going to be a lot of money don't want to waste any of it.

 

[jblizzle]

Just be aware that just because they "service" the pool (which I assume means maintain chemistry etc?) does not necessarily mean they actually understand the chemistry or will maintain it as well as you (the owner) would).

The only possible issues with saltwater pools are damage to surrounding natural stone work and usually only in arid climates. You get plenty of rain I imagine, so even stone work might be fine ... to be safe, avoid natural stone around the pool.

The salt level is 1/10 the ocean and not very corrosive. You will have around 3000ppm of salt ... and a non-SWG pool can often build up to 1000ppm using any other form of chlorine.

Costs are a generally a wash over the long term vs using bleach daily to add chlorine. SWG cost more upfront, but then you are not buying bleach all the time.

SWG only "plug up" if you do not maintain the balance correctly (naming keeping the pH in check) And they can plug up in a few months. Also note the cells generally only last 3-5 years and you have to buy a new one (which is what makes the long term costs a wash)

Using a chlorinator (trichlor tablets) can cause its own problems like CYA build up (this points to my first sentence, that they likely do not understand the chemistry)

SWGs add a slow supply of chlorine. If you are expecting heavy use, you should supplement with bleach before and/or after ... you should do the same thing regardless of the chlorine supply.

SWG is not going away IMO

 

[Ocgasman]

I would never ever be without my SWG. If it broke tomorrow, I would immediately replace it with another SWG. Find a PB that's comfortable with a SWG.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I am really Pro SWCG, but to give your Pool Builder a very small amount of slack, there are things that you need to understand about SWCG operation..

1. They generally do not operate when the water temp is below about 60 degrees. Not much of a problem since algae does not grow much in cold water, but you will have to manually chlorinate your pool during the off period.

2. In a way, your PB is correct saying a tab feeder and SWCG have about the same amount of maintenance. At first this is true, but as the tab feeder increases your CYA level you'll find that there is a huge amount of effort trying to keep your pool from turning green. You generally have to drain your pool and start over.

3. I suspect your PB remembers the SWCG's that were not correctly sized for the volume of the pool. A SWCG needs to be rated for 2 to 3 times the amount of water in the pool. When this does not happen the pool owner is never happy with the SWCG's operation. I can't stress enough how important this is, because the SWCG only works with the pump is running. So unless you want to run your pump 24/7, make sure you get the right size SWCG.

4. I agree that the cost is a normally a wash, but it will not feel that way when the SWCG dies and you need to replace it. I would plan on replacing the cell every 3 to 4 years. If it lasts longer that's just gravy.

5. A "large" swim party could make a pool turn green no matter how you chlorinate it. The key is knowing the chlorine level in your pool and making sure that you adjust for any increased demand. This of course requires you have the proper test kit to be able to analyze your own pool water. I recommend the TF-100.

6. I call most of what your PB says as BS.

7. Get ready for him to recommend a booster pump and pressure side pool cleaner... A good indication that he is stuck in the 70's. Water powered cleaners are like old rotary phones.. Robots are like cell phones, technology wise, and are the only way to go.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[gwegan]

The bottom line is salt systems drastically reduce the time and labor you spend on a pool. They don't really reduce costs if at all. Over time more pools will go to salt systems. They are getting better each year. On TFP we see more pools going to salt if folks can afford the initial investment.

Your points:


Salt water is to corrosive on everything. Look around on here, do some searches. You will find there are not many complaints about salt corrosion except as to flagstone in the southwest.

They entail cost out way the saving They are about a break even with most of the cost upfront.

It is not that much less maintenance -- HA Thats a joke -- Not hauling chlorine or tabs. 1/2 hour or more less work every week during the summer.


New PB says the SWG will plug up after a 5-10 years and cause major issues. You have to replace the cell every 5 or so years. Its a DYI job.


New PB says a chlorinator works just as well. If you want to drain your pool every other year or so. Maybe a Stenner pump works just as well but you still buy and refill chlorine.

New PB says chlorine is the same maintenance and SWG does not make pool water any more stable. A salt water pool is a pure chlorine pool so yes.


He says with large swim parties water will turn green. Then that would be true with tabs and a chlorinator or any other method unless you supplement with liquid chlorine. Actually if you have large parties then an UV or Ozone system might help you, though normally in residential pools they only benefit the PB's profit line.


New PB says SWG is a fad the will fade with time has told me that it has come and gone many of time throughout the years. Flat wrong. Over the past seven years all the major pool equipment companies have developed salt systems and they are no fad. They are moving from a high end option to the norm. In five years most new residential pools will have them.


A salt system is no more expensive than other systems, you are putting the investment in up front rather than over time. Its like buying a cell phone for cash rather than paying higher monthly bills for a "free " cell phone.

 

[pooldv]

I am on my second saltwater pool and would not be without it. I also have flagstone coping and it is doing fine after 5 swim seasons. It is not sealed.

 

[bmoreswim]

Nothing bad to say about mine. Only good.

 

[needsajet]

I have nothing bad to say about SWC. You got some good answers above in response to the various comments from your PB.

I don't know your size of pool as planned, but assuming 15,000 gals, you'll be adding on average 1/3 gallon of 10% chlorinating liquid per day. So you need to go buy and bring home around 2 gallons per week. Very doable, but that's the time you save with the SWC. Your SWC is your own onsite chlorine factory, doing the same thing a chlorine manufacturer does by using salt and electricity to make chlorine.

If you really want to work with that builder for the other reasons you mentioned, just make sure there's a place in the plumbing for the SWC when you add it later. Don't accept a system based on pucks/tabs (solid form of chlorine used in an inline chlorinator). Just tell the PB you're planning to use liquid pool chlorine and add it a couple of times a week. He should accept that.

Don't let him ram a single-speed over-sized pump down your throat. Lots of old-school PBs will do this. At least get a two-speed and preferably a variable-speed pump so you can save a significant amount of electricity over the years. I strongly agree on avoiding an old-school pressure cleaner as well. With the booster pump and separate plumbing, they can easily cost as much as a separate robot and give far less satisfaction, plus a robot substitutes for most of the weekly brushing a pool needs.

Good luck with your project!

 

[Dougk30]

Wow, thanks for all of the great insight. It was my assumption the this PB was just an old school character. He did also recommend not using a robot and just using a vac on the side. Another thing I thought to be suspicious is the pump size. I feel like it was going to be under powered he recommended a 1.5 hp single speed pump for our 32,000 gal pool. This make a very hard decision for us to figure out who to go with old school knowledge or shiny shoe cluelessness. I am going to continue to look other PB to see what we find. Thanks again.

 

[tim5055]

Wow, thanks for all of the great insight. It was my assumption the this PB was just an old school character. He did also recommend not using a robot and just using a vac on the side. Another thing I thought to be suspicious is the pump size. I feel like it was going to be under powered he recommended a 1.5 hp single speed pump for our 32,000 gal pool. This make a very hard decision for us to figure out who to go with old school knowledge or shiny shoe cluelessness. I am going to continue to look other PB to see what we find. Thanks again.

Please, don't take this as taking a shot at you, as most folks do what you are doing - call several pool builders and have them give you a "quote for a pool". You end up trying to compare several builders who all recomend something different.

How about doing it the way businesses have work done - you specify a scope of work that they have to meet.

You give them a list of items you will require in the build. Here are a few items I would recomend, others may add suggestions:

- XXXXX brand salt water chlorine generator rated at XXXXX gallons (you want 2-3 times the water volume)
- All valves will be Jandy Never-lube
- XXXX Brand/Model sand filter (or what filter you want)
- No matter what filter you choose you want a multi-port valve or plumbing that allows you to vacuum to waste
- Contractor will pipe backwash pipe to XXXX location
- All pool pipes will be 2" and buried a minimum of XXXX inches (below your frost line)
- Builder will install 2 speed or VS pump (your choice)
- All electric will be installed following the current National Electrical Code

Reading some of the pool build posts here will allow you to develop a complete list. You want them to build the pool you want, not the pool they want.........

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, thanks for all of the great insight. It was my assumption the this PB was just an old school character. He did also recommend not using a robot and just using a vac on the side. Another thing I thought to be suspicious is the pump size. I feel like it was going to be under powered he recommended a 1.5 hp single speed pump for our 32,000 gal pool. This make a very hard decision for us to figure out who to go with old school knowledge or shiny shoe cluelessness. I am going to continue to look other PB to see what we find. Thanks again.

Please, don't take this as taking a shot at you, as most folks do what you are doing - call several pool builders and have them give you a "quote for a pool". You end up trying to compare several builders who all recomend something different.

How about doing it the way businesses have work done - you specify a scope of work that they have to meet.

You give them a list of items you will require in the build. Here are a few items I would recomend, others may add suggestions:

- XXXXX brand salt water chlorine generator rated at XXXXX gallons (you want 2-3 times the water volume)
- All valves will be Jandy Never-lube
- XXXX Brand/Model sand filter (or what filter you want)
- No matter what filter you choose you want a multi-port valve or plumbing that allows you to vacuum to waste
- Contractor will pipe backwash pipe to XXXX location
- All pool pipes will be 2" and buried a minimum of XXXX inches (below your frost line)
- Builder will install 2 speed or VS pump (your choice)
- All electric will be installed following the current National Electrical Code

Reading some of the pool build posts here will allow you to develop a complete list. You want them to build the pool you want, not the pool they want.........

 

[wkillham]

I do. I've had one for 12 years. You simply cannot keep the PH down. My 25k gallon pool takes close to 3 gallons of acid a month. No matter what I do I can't control the PH over the winter and open to a thicker coat of scale every spring. When I renovate I will go back to plain old chlorine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pabeader]

oops

- - - Updated - - -

Please, don't take this as taking a shot at you, as most folks do what you are doing - call several pool builders and have them give you a "quote for a pool". You end up trying to compare several builders who all recomend something different.

How about doing it the way businesses have work done - you specify a scope of work that they have to meet.

You give them a list of items you will require in the build. Here are a few items I would recomend, others may add suggestions:

- XXXXX brand salt water chlorine generator rated at XXXXX gallons (you want 2-3 times the water volume)
- All valves will be Jandy Never-lube
- XXXX Brand/Model sand filter (or what filter you want)
- No matter what filter you choose you want a multi-port valve or plumbing that allows you to vacuum to waste
- Contractor will pipe backwash pipe to XXXX location
- All pool pipes will be 2" and buried a minimum of XXXX inches (below your frost line)
- Builder will install 2 speed or VS pump (your choice)
- All electric will be installed following the current National Electrical Code

Reading some of the pool build posts here will allow you to develop a complete list. You want them to build the pool you want, not the pool they want.........

- - - Updated - - -

Please, don't take this as taking a shot at you, as most folks do what you are doing - call several pool builders and have them give you a "quote for a pool". You end up trying to compare several builders who all recomend something different.

How about doing it the way businesses have work done - you specify a scope of work that they have to meet.

You give them a list of items you will require in the build. Here are a few items I would recomend, others may add suggestions:

- XXXXX brand salt water chlorine generator rated at XXXXX gallons (you want 2-3 times the water volume)
- All valves will be Jandy Never-lube
- XXXX Brand/Model sand filter (or what filter you want)
- No matter what filter you choose you want a multi-port valve or plumbing that allows you to vacuum to waste
- Contractor will pipe backwash pipe to XXXX location
- All pool pipes will be 2" and buried a minimum of XXXX inches (below your frost line)
- Builder will install 2 speed or VS pump (your choice)
- All electric will be installed following the current National Electrical Code

Reading some of the pool build posts here will allow you to develop a complete list. You want them to build the pool you want, not the pool they want.........

- - - Updated - - -

I do. I've had one for 12 years. You simply cannot keep the PH down. My 25k gallon pool takes close to 3 gallons of acid a month. No matter what I do I can't control the PH over the winter and open to a thicker coat of scale every spring. When I renovate I will go back to plain old chlorine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What are your test kit readings? You are probably fighting high TA not the effect of the SWG

 

[Dougk30]

I do not see that as a shot and completely agree however the first PB I talked to I did not know what I was looking for (because I haven't found TFP yet) and he gave me a list of stuff that he said I needed and wasn't to far off with the equipment that I needed, but his price was about $15000 more the the second guy. Plus after asking the first guy about changing a few thing on the quote he knew very little about the equipment he was selling me and had to look up different models of the pumps and filters, also said that he did not even know the jandy made a filter larger than a 340 sq.ft. This makes me a little nervous on what I am getting. The second PB I found tells me he does't work with SWG and will only build a wood sided pool. The wood sided pool make me a little nervous but he just seems very rigid on being old school. I am ok with that as long as he is willing to work to my specs, but if he is not then I need to find another PB.

 

[pooldv]

I do. I've had one for 12 years. You simply cannot keep the PH down. My 25k gallon pool takes close to 3 gallons of acid a month. No matter what I do I can't control the PH over the winter and open to a thicker coat of scale every spring. When I renovate I will go back to plain old chlorine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SWGs do put upward pressure on PH. But, we can manage that by managing TA between 50 and 60 and if it is still rising more than you like you can add 50 ppm of borates to help reduce pH rise. Also, waterfalls, bubblers and other water features cause pH to rise. Running them less or not at all will reduce pH rise.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, thanks for all of the great insight. It was my assumption the this PB was just an old school character. He did also recommend not using a robot and just using a vac on the side. Another thing I thought to be suspicious is the pump size. I feel like it was going to be under powered he recommended a 1.5 hp single speed pump for our 32,000 gal pool. This make a very hard decision for us to figure out who to go with old school knowledge or shiny shoe cluelessness. I am going to continue to look other PB to see what we find. Thanks again.

A single speed pump isn't energy efficient. It is like an old chevy with a power glide transmission. Get a car from this century with a 6or 8 speed transmission! A variable speed pump will pay for itself and give you precise control over water flow. I run my 3hp VS pump at 1100 rpm for making chlorine with the SWG, skimming and filtering. It uses 150 watts at 1100 rpm. At 10.25c/kWh I can run it 24x7 for less than 12 bucks per month. And when I need more flow for solar panels, heaters, extra skimming after a storm I just turn it up.

No robot?!?!?!! I converted from a pressure side cleaner to a robot this year and I love it! No extra plumbing, no extra pump. It does a WAY better job running two or three times a week than my pressure cleaner did running daily. Here is the one I got, First Robotic Cleaner, Doheny's Discovery

 

[outgolfingc]

My opinion, you can always add a Salt generator later right? Run a season without and see how bad it is adding liquid. I found that I do not have to add the amount of liquid chlorine as was quoted in this thread, "1/3 bottle per day". Rarely did I go over a bottle a week. We live in a very hot arid climate, weeks over 100's. Those weeks maybe a little more than a bottle, but not bad. Now in the winter months it has been half the consumption. I do have an inline feeder, but it really is not sufficient for a 20k pool. Just keeps the edge off and I like the idea of it running through there when I heat the spa. CYA build is something I have not thought of, only 6 months in. I could strangle the pool supply guy who sold me CYA early on. Got a 10lb tub if anyone wants it? I also have a 50lb bag of sodium Bicarb too, ugh. Needless to say I don't go there anymore. Live and learn. I will likely buy CYA free tabs for next year (note they appear to be very expensive).
No matter what you can always add to your pool external equipment if you plan accordingly. Nothing will ever make your pool maintenance free, one solution will always lead to another required action. And forget about doing something to save money, everything costs money.

As far as the pool builder, I wouldn't work with someone who seems to be biased one way or another. They should be open to providing a product that is what the customer wants. Good luck.

 

[pabeader]

outgolfingc - you said "I will likely buy CYA free tabs for next year (note they appear to be very expensive). " As far as we know, there is no such thing. Please enlighten us.

 

[bdavis466]

I assume it's CalHypo being referred to which opens up a whole other set of issues if not closely managed.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Please note that if they are cal-hypo tablets then they require a specialized tab feeder (grinder) and the cal hypo tablets absolutely can NOT be placed in a regular trichlor tab feeder.

 

[outgolfingc]

outgolfingc - you said "I will likely buy CYA free tabs for next year (note they appear to be very expensive). " As far as we know, there is no such thing. Please enlighten us.

Here you go:

https://www.amazon.com/Calcium-Hypo...d-3035-4a40-b691-0eefb1a18396&pf_rd_i=desktop

 

[tim5055]

Here you go:

https://www.amazon.com/Calcium-Hypo...d-3035-4a40-b691-0eefb1a18396&pf_rd_i=desktop

Please pay attention to Matt's warning. These can NOT be used in a standard tab feeder. The results of mixing chlorine types in a feeder can be explosive.

In addition, you are just trading calcium for CYA with these. Continued use of CalHypo will just raise calcium levels to a point that water needs to be replaced due to high CH.