Concerns Adding Bottom Main Drain to AG.

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FirefighterJose

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Jun 1, 2017
14
Nashville, TN
Hello, As I'm about to replace my vinyl liner in my 27' Above Ground I've been researching adding a main drain to the center of the pool for less maintenance.
The idea of less weekly maintenance is huge for me and completely negates any cost.

My concerns are likely hood of leaks.
I live in Middle TN. Our winters are cold, and I understand plugging and draining the bottom line will be advised correct? Thats not an issue as much as the initial install itself.

What do I install at the bottom around the main drain to assist in a no leak install. It can't possibly just be the vinyl itself around the drain correct?

Here's what I would be looking at purchasing.

https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-WG10...id=1496505885&sr=8-4&keywords=main+pool+drain

I'm also going to be doing a 2nd return as well so theres one at the top of the water level and the bottom for maximum circulation.

Thank you for the help and addressing my concerns ahead of time.


Edit: Is the process the same for an above ground as it is for this inground? I guess doing this it looks like I'll feel comfortable with it not leaking.
Ask the Pool Guy: 10 Step Process to Installing In Floor Cleaning Main Drains {Legendary Escapes} - YouTube
 
I just put two in my pool, 24' round. Installing them sucks, a lot. It added a day toy whole build. I do wish I would have set them a inch a or two lower then the pool floor. I wish I would went out the bottom of the drain with the pipe with a 90 so the pipes would be farther in the ground. I would say they are totally worth it so far I have not vacuumed just brush the floor toward the drains. I've had my pool up two weeks.

A 52" pool has less then 2 psi on the floor and the drain kit has two gaskets and a seal ring. In my research nobody really has problems with sealing.

Winterizing is the big thing with them. Two ways, one is the better way is to blow air out through it in close the valve, then chase after it with RV antifreeze. Second way is to chase after it with antifreeze.

I installed mine before the pool so I can't help you there, if you want to know how I did it I'll post that
 
Sounds great, thanks for the information. It's a 27' and 52" tall so that's good to know it's low psi on the floor.

Sure, any information is appreciated. While mines already installed I'll be digging for the drain. Did you install 2 main drains? I know it's the new recommendation.

So you wish you had put in a 90 to go deeper under the pool? I was thinking maybe a 45* to get a a few extra inches of depth, but I guess really a 45 would be fine. I was also going to put
it at a downward slope towards the pump so that in the winter when I plugged it, I could suck the water out and it would drain towards the pump just to help...
I see you used pvc. I see schedule 40 flex by some, but one guy I talked to said use Schedule 80 because it has thicker wall.

Thanks again! (photos?)
 
FirefighterJose said:
Hello, As I'm about to replace my vinyl liner in my 27' Above Ground I've been researching adding a main drain to the center of the pool for less maintenance.
Click to expand...
What are your expectations because a MD doesn't really reduce maintenance much? Doesn't do much of anything although some people use it to push dirt into. More importantly, it steals flow rate from the skimmer so the skimmer doesn't work as well.
 
I've seen people run skimmer at 90% and MD at 10%. Most people recommend getting a robot instead of a MD.

I have 2. There is two threads on the Hayward, out the bottom and out the side, I wish I would plugged out the side and screwed a 90 out the bottom. I plugged the bottom and went out the side.

I think it will reduce by turning on the MD flow to Max and brush to the drains, reducing the need to vacuum. Have done this once with a too small pump for my pool and it worked, need a long term test.

If I were you I'd even go with 3 or 4 because a 1/4 of my pool has a long way to go to hit the drain. I also plumed its own line to the pump header so I can adjust each drain valve.

The reason I did this is because my vacuum is a cheap crappy one, and because the two problems with my pool was floor cleanliness and running the skimmer out of water, MD will solve the run out of water problem and I believe it will help with the floor problem.
 
I can site multiple people and sites that all say a md reduces vacuuming maintenance on an above ground pool because while surface trash is pushed to the walls water debris is pulled into the center of the pool with good circulation. The main drain will help reduce vacuumming time and for me that's huge. I'll also be adding a 2nd return down low for better circulation as well. I'll have an adjustable valve to control percentages for pulling from either or.
If this isn't true then I've been misunderstanding the information I've been reading and seeing.
I have an attachment (rake bag) at the skimmer that also helps it. But I figured since I was doing a new liner I would do anything else I possibly wanted to do.

Unrelated to this thread, I saw people using floor foam boards on top of the sand to great a smooth flat bottom and then having the gorrila pad (thicj felt) and have also considered adding that to the project.
 
FirefighterJose said:
I can site multiple people and sites that all say a md reduces vacuuming maintenance on an above ground pool because while surface trash is pushed to the walls water debris is pulled into the center of the pool with good circulation. The main drain will help reduce vacuumming time and for me that's huge. I'll also be adding a 2nd return down low for better circulation as well. I'll have an adjustable valve to control percentages for pulling from either or.
If this isn't true then I've been misunderstanding the information I've been reading and seeing.
I have an attachment (rake bag) at the skimmer that also helps it. But I figured since I was doing a new liner I would do anything else I possibly wanted to do.
Click to expand...
In a circular pool and with correct circulation, some of the debris will collect near the center of the pool but that doesn't mean the MD will automatically remove that debris. MDs are not designed for debris removal. The covers have very small openings and distribute the flow rate over a very large area so an MD can only remove debris that falls within an inch or two of the inlets by itself and only debris that won't clog the inlets which is mainly fine dirt. Many on the forum have found out the hard way how easy it is to clog a MD and how difficult it is to remove the debris.

To me, the risk of entrapment, leaks and clogs far outweighs any benefits that it might provide. You would be far better off using a robot to clean the bottom of the pool. BTW, regarding entrapment, you are planning to put in dual MDs correct?
 
I closed off one drain and stood on my other trying to feel the suction, at 30-40 GPM there was nearly none. The drains are rated for double that flow depending on pipe design. I had to skimp on money and ran 1 1/4 pipes.

I'm hoping to get a correct pump towards the end of the month I can have a correct test after that.

Within the instructions they are supposed to be installed 3' or more apart and with the lines tee'd together close by.

Haywards seem to only come in a pack of two.

I'm on the fence about putting in a recirculate valve so you can suck out the skimmer and pump out the drains in case they get clogged. I am still piecing together my plumbing so I left my suction and pressure header open on both sides so I can add things, like a skimmer and a second return, or a recirculate valve and piping.

A side effect I did not think off is the water maintains a even temp throughout the height of the pool.
 
cfherrman said:
A side effect I did not think off is the water maintains a even temp throughout the height of the pool.
Click to expand...
Properly aimed returns can distribute the heat just as effectively if not more. I have a 8.5' deep pool and have tested this with my main drain shut off and solar adding heat and there was no difference in temperature with depth after several hours.
 

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Yes I'll be installing two drains because the haywards came in a pack of two (for the price of 1) and I also know it's new code recommendations. Unsure about regarding an above ground.
I'll be adding a 2nd return as well at the bottom of the wall as well.
I purchased a 3way adjustable valve in addition to the MD's and extra return. I'm also going to have to order a new skimmer. I just noticed it's cracked in multiple screw locations. (It's probably 20yrs old)
https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-2630...id=1496605366&sr=8-1&keywords=3way+pool+valve
Also Having to completely re-design all my hard plumbing.

It's a D.E. Filter, forgot to mention that. I actually have a spare De Filter/pump sitting in my shed. I can get a sand filter for the first stage for free with a pump if I wanted to. So purchase cost isn't a factor.

Has anyone setup a two stage filtration system? First sand and then into the DE for finer filtering. My theory was the sand would catch large debri 20-40microns and then the de would pick up the finer debri (2-5microns).
The sand filter would extend the DE's maintenance. (In regards to bumping and cleaning)
Just a random idea, but I know the DE will be fine by itself.

I only have 2 tree's near by within 30ft. So I don't have lots of trash/debris. I don't mind skimming the large debri when I need to, I understand normal maintenance but my point of the extra md and return is just to assist in the maintenance of the pool.
Which is what everyone is saying will happen in many places, but obviously not all.

I'm not expecting to not have to do anything, I just figured since I was replacing the liner I would do everything else I want to while I'm at it. This will be the last liner I put in this pool. We'll probably move within 10yrs but regardless.
 
The items have arrived.

I'm NOT doing a foam bottom. Can't justify the $200-$300 for it right now. I'll stick to refreshing the sand and the gorrilla pad which is nothing more than a thick felt pad.

Liner
Bottom Pad ( Glorified felt pad... )
Coves
Coping strips
Wall padding
2 Hayward Main Drains
3 Way valve to adjust flow from either or both equally.
1 Extra return

I'll buy the piping at the local store in the next couple of days.
Haven't decided to go down and a 90* or come out of the side of the MD.

Only thing is I may buy a new skimmer. Not sure yet.

Not that it matters, but here's the pool. Next project will be the decking....

34943847281_0a7104abb0_c.jpg
 
Been a long day, couldn't get started until 3pm. Got off work at 7am, Had to photograph some real estate, someone backed into my wife and son in her suv to top it off.

I can finally say, I'm excited. It's just been work until now,

Here's the drains installed, Wall Foam Installed, Cove pieces installed and the gorilla pad installed. I'll talk more about everything another day.

35030952014_9526dc0574_b.jpg



Letting our son walk around while the first water gets put in! He's the reason I redid this rather than just tearing it out. hahaha.


35871385035_fa561e6156_b.jpg



Its midnight and I cut the pool off so I can return in the morning and pull/adjust as the level rises. I took this long exposure just now!


35032045944_6e4cdd5d60_b.jpg
 
Honestly, because it was a budget issue I bought a complete kit from poolsupplies on ebay.

Here it is. Really happy with it all except the gorilla pad. Just expected an actual thick pad. Regardless it is still worth it for sure. I would never do another liner without it.

Sunlight 25 Gauge Overlap Swimming Pool Liner w/ Cove Guard-(Various Sizes) | eBay

I chose the uniform sunlight pattern so if we were an inch or two off on the side alignment it wouldn't be noticeable. Really happy with it all.\

We got the 1/8" wall foam from Amazon.
 
That is the same liner I put in two years ago - but I can't remember where I bought it.

I would have recommended going with the foam floor pad and skipping the wall foam. I just used sand udner mine, and I put on the wall foam. I see you have a wrinkle in yours in one of the pictures. That stuff is a pain to work with, especially if there is any wind. I guess it makes the walls feel nice, but really, how often do you swim into the wall? I retrospect I would rather have bottom foam than wall foam.

I also wonder, maybe I have a magic pool? I never have any issues. I add about a quart of bleach a day, I keep it covered with a solar cover, and I vaccum every so often, not once a week, maybe once every 10 days. If I vaccum, I do it when I am going to swim. I get in, and vaccum and it takes me all of 15 min. I really don't spend that much time on the pool, maybe I am just locky. I have a automatic vaccum, but honestly it takes me just as long to set it up as it does for me to actually get in the pool and vaccum

-dave
 

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