Cell threads too tight??

[trivetman]

I just had the worst time gettjng my swg (hayward) cell off my plumbing. I got it off eventually with a channel locks and a belt but hoping to have an easier time of it next winter.

I know the manual says to hand tighten. I couldn’t get it leak free by hand when I put it on so gave it maybe a quarter turn with a channel lock. Was that the cause of the trouble? Will a lubricant either on the face or threads make things easier next year?

 

[proavia]

Did you lube the o-rings/gaskets prior to install with silicone pool lube?
It may be time to invest in new o-rings/gaskets for next year as over-tightening will flatten them out.
They should be lubed prior to install.

 

[Newdude]

+1. My hand tight was on the verge of too tight. Many times something leaked after assembly which I then tried to tighten, making it drip worse.

It took me several years to realize I was starting them too tight. Now I put them on what I consider 'snug' and go from there if necessary.

 

[trivetman]

I did not use any gasket lube. Suppose thats a good first step.

Hand tight for me has resulted in leaks so the wrench has been needed. I was wondering if maybe some silicone lube or ptfe tape in the threads could help.

One thing i notice is that there is definitely a misalignment of a few degrees between my top and bottom collars. It aint exactly straight. I wonder if that is resulting in more friction in the fit than is typical to get a good seal.

 

[Newdude]

One thing i notice is that there is definitely a misalignment of a few degrees between my top and bottom collars. It aint exactly straight. I wonder if that is resulting in more friction in the fit than is typical to get a good seal.

Absolutely if they don't line up. You are using the collar to force the alignment that doesn't want to be. As long as it doesn't get worse (like a slowly sinking equipment pad), it will probably be ok as is.

 

[Lake Placid]

Hand tight for me has resulted in leaks so the wrench has been needed. I was wondering if maybe some silicone lube or ptfe tape in the threads could help.

Lubing the threads or adding any tape to them for sealing purposes is futile. The sealing surface is the o-ring and the flange it seats on. The threads on the union just apply the mechanical force necessary to compress and seal the ring.

If the unions don’t line up perfectly or are not perfectly square to each other when installing, place the cell in the gap and thread the unions in an alternating fashion a little at a time on either side until they begin to snug. This should help pull everything into tension in as square a way as possible. Once the cell is lightly tensioned in place then “torque”…lol

 

[trivetman]

Lubing the threads or adding any tape to them for sealing purposes is futile.

I hear you. I wasn’t thinking the tape/lube in the threads was for sealing. More to reduce the friction I am getting in the threads as I get it tight enough to complete the seal at the o ring. Of course if its too slippery, the nut doesn’t hold period.

 

[Newdude]

I had similar with my filter last time. The pre-cast pad it was on sank on the back side and the plumbing stayed where it was. The union was plumb at 'l' and the filter was a hair off at '/'. It was a pain every year taking several tries, but it did grab eventually.

 

[trivetman]

So is some silicone grease on the threads maybe helpful, or maybe a bad idea?

 

[Newdude]

That's tricky as it may make it too easy to wrench down, breaking the collar(s).

 

[Rossterman]

I hear you. I wasn’t thinking the tape/lube in the threads was for sealing. More to reduce the friction I am getting in the threads as I get it tight enough to complete the seal at the o ring. Of course if its too slippery, the nut doesn’t hold period.

Actually lubricating the threads with some good silicone grease works great! make screwing and unscrewing the unions way easier!

 

[Lake Placid]

Actually lubricating the threads with some good silicone grease works great! make screwing and unscrewing the unions way easier!

Be very careful adding any lube to plastic threads as the lube will give you a false sense of tightness. In NPT male threaded PVC fittings, it’s recommended never to use any lubricant for this reason. That said those threads are wedge shaped and slightly different than the fittings in question, but I’ve split plenty of female threaded unions due to over tightening because of lubricant on the male threads.

 

[trivetman]

I might give the lube a try in the spring. I think id rather have a cracked collar in the spring than a collar I can’t remove in the fall. I’ve actually got a spare set of sockets/nuts so Ive at least got the parts for a quick fix when it all goes south

 

[Newdude]

Got any pics ? If you have the parts on hand, that's half the battle to fixing it so they line up.

 

[trivetman]

It looks straight enough with the cell (or dummy pipe) in place. But that’s misleading cause the ends naturally sit such that putting the cell on one end without any tension causes the other end to be misaligned by probably half an inch. The pipe has enough give to it so its no problem to push it into alignment and get the union threads to start but I think the tension on the system just makes for that much more friction.

Ill take a pic later today

 

[trivetman]

Heres a pic with the dummy cell in place. Looks straight enough but when the cell isn’t there that bottom leg angles out towards where the red line is. Its not as extreme as that line shows but hopefully that gives the idea. The misalignment is probably around half an inch.

I put a wood block under the elbow to try to push it into alignment but it may not have been enough. Maybe ill hammer another shim in there as well in the spring.

 

[Newdude]

Nooooooow it's coming back to me. Lol. That was a while ago, but I remember the saga.

 

[trivetman]

Nooooooow it's coming back to me. Lol. That was a while ago, but I remember the saga.

I did have quite a saga with the original Circupool I put on. The Hayward I ended up with was sooooooo much better. I think I just got a dud unit from Circupool.

Those are the Circupool union nuts. As near as I can tell the threads are an exact match for the Hayward (I can only assume they were intended to be). I have the Hayward nuts available if the ones I have on there crack.

 

[gary300]

Every time I take off my IC60, after inspection and cleaning if required I clean off the surfaces where the orings will contact, pull the orings off and clean, re-install them and then apply a good layer of silicone lubricant to the oring and mating surface. I crank down the big nuts as tight as I can by hand (I am 76 so not so much torque) and then use my channel locks to give another 1/4 turn. Never had a leak doing it this way. If you have an alignment problem with the unions, then there is not much you can do except take it apart and re-do the plumbing. PVC Unions have a problem leaking if not aligned reasonably close to in-line. Hope this helps.

Gary