Adding Diatomaceous Earth (DE) to filters converted to paper Clean and Clear cartridges...

[Websherpa]

I'm just curious as to people's experience and/or opinion. My Pentair Quad 100 DE filter's original cartridge filters (which I dutifully cleaned each winter) were at the end of their life cycle, and dealing with DE disposal here is a pain. So I decided to change out the filter cartridges for similarly sized paper ones for a Pentair Clean and Clear filter. So far this season, so good (plus it was easy to clean the cartridges after the initial opening - I have no backflush capability) - they appear close to the same efficiency, and maybe a bit less resistance back pressure which was another bonus being sought by the change.

However, I am wondering if people still charge these paper filters with a minimal amount of DE to help "polish" the water? (Our borated pool has always been SOOO sparkly clear in the past with the original DE charged filter cartridge that I wonder if I'll miss not using DE.)

 

[Jimrahbe]

Web,

I would not add DE to your standard cartridges...

I would never, ever, ever go back to a DE..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Websherpa]

Web,

I would not add DE to your standard cartridges...

I would never, ever, ever go back to a DE..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Can I ask why you'd never go back to DE? Was it disposal?

I've had a sand filter before, but the over-sized original DE filter was a revelation in water clarity that I hadn't experienced before, allowing us to keep chlorine levels low and stable. Add to that borating our pool and everyone is blown away by the water quality and clarity (I supplement with a skimmer sock BTW and so since it was also over-sized for the pool, my Quad 100 didn't need to be back flushed mid season (6 months in Ontario Canada)).

However if I get the same results with the newer non-DE cartridge filters (Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 520 Element x 4) then I won't go back either.

I had just heard that some people do a small charge of DE to add a little more sparkle to the filtering for the finest particles ahead of the filter building up it's own charge of gunk.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Web,

Here is my story that I have told several times before...

I started my pool life with a couple of rent houses that I rebuilt.. They both had DE filters and so that was all I knew..

When I had a pool built at my house, I really, really wanted a DE filter.. But the City requires that DE filters be connected to the sewer. That would have been almost impossible, so I was "forced" to go with a large Cartridge filter.. That was well over 10 years ago and my view has certainly changed. I only need to clean my filter once a year... No one on earth can visually look at my pool and tell any real difference between it and a DE filtered pool. I like that there is no MPV to leak, or break, or be hard to turn. I like the dirt simple plumbing and the low back pressure, I run mostly at 1200 RPM and my filter pressure, with a 30 lb. gauge, is less than 1 psi, when clean and maybe 2 or 3 psi a year later.

I understand people being married to DE filters, but for me, they are just not worth the extra work involved, and not working with the DE material itself.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

I understand people being married to DE filters, but for me, they are just not worth the extra work involved, and not working with the DE material itself.

Almost everyone who has switched to carts when the time came, kicked themselves for not doing it sooner.

Food for thought @Websherpa, seach away and see it retold many times.

 

[proavia]

Cartridge filters are great - and no DE needed.

Update your signature to show your current filter.

Use you K-2006C to run a full set of tested and enter those in PoolMath.
How old are your K-2006C reagents?
The LaMotte ColorQ just isn't reliable enough.

Are you following the TFP method - especially the FC/CYA chart.
9 days ago, when your FC was 6.0 (assume CYA is 60), you had enough FC in the pool water.
Since then, your FC is too low.
The filter and keeping your chlorine levels low and stable is NOT keeping your pool water sanitary.

 

[Websherpa]

Cartridge filters are great - and no DE needed.

Update your signature to show your current filter.

Use you K-2006C to run a full set of tested and enter those in PoolMath.
How old are your K-2006C reagents?
The LaMotte ColorQ just isn't reliable enough.

Are you following the TFP method - especially the FC/CYA chart.
9 days ago, when your FC was 6.0 (assume CYA is 60), you had enough FC in the pool water.
Since then, your FC is too low.
The filter and keeping your chlorine levels low and stable is NOT keeping your pool water sanitary.

Thank you, I am thinking so far the paper cartridges are great too (not a huge difference from the DE cartridges to the naked eye).

I no longer run the K-2006C so I will take that out of my signature.

I have the newer ColorQ 2X Pro 7 now and it's close enough (as are test strips in the end of all). I long ago realized that dead accurate chemistry for vinyl pools is a bit of a red herring and "impossible chase for perfection" given the constantly changing conditions. I grant that your mileage may vary and I've changed my thoughts over the years.

FC is just fine (although it was low last test and we are at the beginning of the season and temp, not enough CYA and after a significantly heavy rain (needing draining) caused wild fluctuations.

Added: I neglected to log the addition of a small amount of shock to help boost the FC after the heavy rains and haven't tested since.

I have been looking after in ground and above ground pools for almost 45 years now, and while I am no expert and I ask a lot of questions in a life-long quest for knowledge, understanding and self-sufficiency, I am pretty confident in my skills.

 

[Websherpa]

Web,

Here is my story that I have told several times before...

I started my pool life with a couple of rent houses that I rebuilt.. They both had DE filters and so that was all I knew..

When I had a pool built at my house, I really, really wanted a DE filter.. But the City requires that DE filters be connected to the sewer. That would have been almost impossible, so I was "forced" to go with a large Cartridge filter.. That was well over 10 years ago and my view has certainly changed. I only need to clean my filter once a year... No one on earth can visually look at my pool and tell any real difference between it and a DE filtered pool. I like that there is no MPV to leak, or break, or be hard to turn. I like the dirt simple plumbing and the low back pressure, I run mostly at 1200 RPM and my filter pressure, with a 30 lb. gauge, is less than 1 psi, when clean and maybe 2 or 3 psi a year later.

I understand people being married to DE filters, but for me, they are just not worth the extra work involved, and not working with the DE material itself.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim,

That sounds very similar to my path and experience so far. Our province and cities discourage or legislate no pool or roof runoff water discharge to street sewers any more... onto the grass it all goes including our excess pool water. I've been burying or disposing in landfill spent DE at the end of each season for about 8 years now.

So I am hoping to have the same opinion of the effect and clarity of water with the 520 Elements.

Thank you all for helping me here, I had just read that some people do a partial charge of their paper filters (much like using flocculate) and was curious. All of the experienced members input here is invaluable.

Wayne

 

[Jimrahbe]

Wayne,

I also have the Color Q Pro and I think it works great on FC (up to 10) and on pH.. Much more accurate than my "guess-work" eyes matching colors.

But the rest of the tests are suspect.. The CH test is not really a Calcium Hardness test, it is a Total Hardness test. The CYA test is very dependent on the batch of pills.. I have seen a 30 PPM difference between batches. The TA test works ok for a reference, but it never agrees with the drop tests.

That said, I tend to agree with you that being close, is often close enough, for pool work.

There is huge difference between my CCP-520 cartridges compared to Quad DE cartridges.. DE cartridges have very wide spaces between the folds of the material to let the DE in.. Regular cartridges have very closely spaced folds.. In a DE cartridge filter, obviously the DE is what does the work.. In a Regular cartridge filter system, the amount of filter surface area does the work.

As a test, you should add some DE to your system and tells us how well it works or does not work...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Saturn94]

Web,

Here is my story that I have told several times before...

I started my pool life with a couple of rent houses that I rebuilt.. They both had DE filters and so that was all I knew..

When I had a pool built at my house, I really, really wanted a DE filter.. But the City requires that DE filters be connected to the sewer. That would have been almost impossible, so I was "forced" to go with a large Cartridge filter.. That was well over 10 years ago and my view has certainly changed. I only need to clean my filter once a year... No one on earth can visually look at my pool and tell any real difference between it and a DE filtered pool. I like that there is no MPV to leak, or break, or be hard to turn. I like the dirt simple plumbing and the low back pressure, I run mostly at 1200 RPM and my filter pressure, with a 30 lb. gauge, is less than 1 psi, when clean and maybe 2 or 3 psi a year later.

I understand people being married to DE filters, but for me, they are just not worth the extra work involved, and not working with the DE material itself.

Thanks,

Jim R.

How long do the filter cartridges typically last?

 

[Jimrahbe]

94,

So I changed mine (a set of 4 cartridges) when they were 8 years old.. There was nothing actually wrong with them, I just got antsy...

I could not really even tell any difference... So, my answer is ... At least 8 years, and most likely longer..

That said, I use hairnets in my skimmers, and that alone keeps 80% of the junk out of my filter.. All I ever do is hose them off, well.. So that is about 15 minutes per cartridge.. I never soak them, or anything else.. Planning wise, it is best to clean them in the Spring or Fall, when it is hot enough to get wet, but not bake yourself...

One other thing.. Bigger is always better when buying a cartridge filter.. It has nothing to do with the size of your pool.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

Years ago, Pentair did recommend adding a little DE to new or newly cleaned cartridge filters. They no longer recommend that, and I assume there's a reason why not.

 

[Websherpa]

As a test, you should add some DE to your system and tells us how well it works or does not work...

I just KNEW someone was going to suggest this... (but it makes sense to experiment) lol.

I'll wait a little longer until the pool's actually seeing some use (not much swimming now as the temp outside swings and patio not set up after winter yet).

 

[Saturn94]

94,

So I changed mine (a set of 4 cartridges) when they were 8 years old.. There was nothing actually wrong with them, I just got antsy...

I could not really even tell any difference... So, my answer is ... At least 8 years, and most likely longer..

That said, I use hairnets in my skimmers, and that alone keeps 80% of the junk out of my filter.. All I ever do is hose them off, well.. So that is about 15 minutes per cartridge.. I never soak them, or anything else.. Planning wise, it is best to clean them in the Spring or Fall, when it is hot enough to get wet, but not bake yourself...

One other thing.. Bigger is always better when buying a cartridge filter.. It has nothing to do with the size of your pool.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks. This is good to know for future reference.

My only experience is with the Hayward DE filter that was installed with our pool in 2004. It still has the original grids.

Going big with the filter is great advice. Fortunately, our builder recommended oversizing the filter to minimize backwashing intervals (I didn’t know any better at the time). I never have to backwash during the season. I just take it apart for a thorough cleaning each fall at closing.

To the OP’s question, is there any chance that adding DE would damage a cartridge filter? Or would the worse case be one would have to clean the cartridges if they get clogged with DE?

Personally, I don’t think I would try adding DE to a cartridge filter not designed to work with DE. It seems the cartridge will filter out finer particles anyway as it gets dirtier over time.