Add Water Feature to Polaris Plumbing???

Jump to latest Follow Reply
W

Windsurfit

Member
Sep 5, 2024
7
Sacramento CA
A question for the Forum experts... I have a traditionally plumbed existing pool built in 89. I also have a 5 year old Variable speed Pentair pump running it all.
There are Two Skimmers and three returns on bottom of pool. Also Suction on main drain.

I have a Polaris pool sweep with a separate pump plumbed to side of pool. All pool functions work as they should.

I would like to add a Pool water feature (New Spillway) that recirculates water from the Polaris pump supply/pressure line.

In detail...I don't want to cut into any concrete to tap skimmers or pool return lines. I can, however, access the Polaris pressure side line (18 inches down) that powers the Polaris. This is a separate line from the rest of the pool plumbing and conveniently exists (outside edge of pool wall) right where I want my New Spillway to go.

So my question is: Can I tee off of the Polaris pressure line with a Jandy 3 way valve whereby I have still have the traditional Polaris function when valve is in (lets call it "A" position) BUT then... run a New water feature into pool (when valve is in "B" position). So in essence- I'm trying to understand if the water lines that were originally plumbed to the Polaris can be used to recirculate water? I have no way of knowing how the Polaris suction side is plumbed but Must Assume there is a tee from one of the skimmer lines that also directs some water to the Polaris pump?

Am I correct in assuming this plumbing? Can the Polaris Pressure line be Tee'd through a 3 way valve and (depending on setting A or B) send water through a new water feature (spillway) and recirculate pulling water back through the already existing Polaris "Suction" line? Hope that question is clear...

I will also assume that my standard Polaris Pump may need to be replaced with a second Variable Pump (which I am willing to do) to control the water spillway flow rate? OR, would my existing Variable Pump push water out of the Polaris Pressure line?

I am not clear on is how the Polaris lines integrate with standard pool plumbing. Does the Polaris pool suction side receive it's water (through a Tee) from the Pool Skimmer lines OR THROUGH the Pool return lines?

So, I hope I have given an accurate picture of my set-up, and desire of end achievement.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Welcome to TFP.

The Polaris booster pump does not have its own suction line. It steals water from the return side of your filter pump.

Post pictures of your equipment pad showing the area around you booster pump and return plumbing.
 
I hate when equipment pad has pipes disappearing into the ground and coming up in another spot.

The booster pump steals water from the union after your SWG.

Then the pipe goes into the ground and comes up by the booster pump.

So whatever you want to do will require the filter pump to run and will reduce the water out of your returns.

Pool-pump4.jpg
 
Thanks.. (and I hate this plumbing as well) So to clarify- the Polaris line receives it's water from the Return line of Main Pump and not the Intake line from skimmers?.

The Main pump WOULD have to run at same time as new water spillway? I have no issue with this (except electricity) as the Spillway would never be on when I am standard filtering. However, would the Polaris pump (by itself) produce enough pressure to move water over a spillway that's 24" up from edge of pool? OR would I need a new variable put in place of my Polaris Pump? Seemingly, my Polaris (when running without main pump on) sends water back into pool BUT I assume it's not good on the pump as it's not designed to really pull a lot of water.

Would a new variable installed (only if necessary) here work (in theory) just like my main pump whereby it pulls (and pushes) enough water to run by itself.. After all..my PGE bill is bad enough.

And, do you feel the 3 way valve will work installed near pool side by new feature with no issues. It will be wired to a new controller so the A or B position will be controlled as Polaris turns on/off and new Spillway Turns on/off?
 
Windsurfit said:
A question for the Forum experts... I have a traditionally plumbed existing pool built in 89. I also have a 5 year old Variable speed Pentair pump running it all.
There are Two Skimmers and three returns on bottom of pool. Also Suction on main drain.

I have a Polaris pool sweep with a separate pump plumbed to side of pool. All pool functions work as they should.

I would like to add a Pool water feature (New Spillway) that recirculates water from the Polaris pump supply/pressure line.

In detail...I don't want to cut into any concrete to tap skimmers or pool return lines. I can, however, access the Polaris pressure side line (18 inches down) that powers the Polaris. This is a separate line from the rest of the pool plumbing and conveniently exists (outside edge of pool wall) right where I want my New Spillway to go.

So my question is: Can I tee off of the Polaris pressure line with a Jandy 3 way valve whereby I have still have the traditional Polaris function when valve is in (lets call it "A" position) BUT then... run a New water feature into pool (when valve is in "B" position). So in essence- I'm trying to understand if the water lines that were originally plumbed to the Polaris can be used to recirculate water? I have no way of knowing how the Polaris suction side is plumbed but Must Assume there is a tee from one of the skimmer lines that also directs some water to the Polaris pump?

Am I correct in assuming this plumbing? Can the Polaris Pressure line be Tee'd through a 3 way valve and (depending on setting A or B) send water through a new water feature (spillway) and recirculate pulling water back through the already existing Polaris "Suction" line? Hope that question is clear...

I will also assume that my standard Polaris Pump may need to be replaced with a second Variable Pump (which I am willing to do) to control the water spillway flow rate? OR, would my existing Variable Pump push water out of the Polaris Pressure line?

I am not clear on is how the Polaris lines integrate with standard pool plumbing. Does the Polaris pool suction side receive it's water (through a Tee) from the Pool Skimmer lines OR THROUGH the Pool return lines?

So, I hope I have given an accurate picture of my set-up, and desire of end achievement.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Polaris should be receiving its water from the return line after the filter before any return fitting. The hose, or pipe that is the front of the Polaris pump would be connected there. Running unfiltered water through a Polaris usually results in them getting clogged with debris very quickly.
In a pool that old the connection is likely underground. Newer pools often have that "T" visible above ground, as plumbing practices have changed, especially with VSP installations.
Could the system work as you have outlined? Maybe. Polaris used to offer a fountain that connected to their wall fitting. Main pump needs to run as well, but the flow may be less than desired through the water feature. And, the booster pump may get very loud without having the proper restriction of a Polaris in the line. Disconnect your Polaris from the wall and turn the system on, you'll hear what I mean.
ajw22 said:
I hate when equipment pad has pipes disappearing into the ground and coming up in another spot.

The booster pump steals water from the union after your SWG.

Then the pipe goes into the ground and comes up by the booster pump.

So whatever you want to do will require the filter pump to run and will reduce the water out of your returns.

View attachment 608456
Click to expand...
There is no reduction in flow that way, and it often increases as the booster pump does pull water through the system, reducing the load on the main pump. If there was a flow meter in the plumbing, you would see that.
Interesting that you have a picture from my area, I know who Aquatique is and even contracted from them for a while. That's an old Anthony pool (pipes are painted Anthony brown) and I also hate that way of plumbing.
 
Last edited:
Windsurfit said:
So to clarify- the Polaris line receives it's water from the Return line of Main Pump and not the Intake line from skimmers?.
Click to expand...

Correct.

Windsurfit said:
The Main pump WOULD have to run at same time as new water spillway? I have no issue with this (except electricity) as the Spillway would never be on when I am standard filtering.
Click to expand...

Yes.

Windsurfit said:
However, would the Polaris pump (by itself) produce enough pressure to move water over a spillway that's 24" up from edge of pool? OR would I need a new variable put in place of my Polaris Pump? Seemingly, my Polaris (when running without main pump on) sends water back into pool BUT I assume it's not good on the pump as it's not designed to really pull a lot of water.
Click to expand...

Dunno. The booster pump has an impeller tuned to provide the needed water pressure for the Polaris.

A VS pump is not a good substitute for the booster pump to run the Polaris cleaner.

Maybe @mas985 can help you with that design.

Windsurfit said:
Would a new variable installed (only if necessary) here work (in theory) just like my main pump whereby it pulls (and pushes) enough water to run by itself.. After all..my PGE bill is bad enough.
Click to expand...

My concern is that depending on the size of pipes or flow rates one of the pumps that are daisy chained together can get starved of water.

Windsurfit said:
And, do you feel the 3 way valve will work installed near pool side by new feature with no issues. It will be wired to a new controller so the A or B position will be controlled as Polaris turns on/off and new Spillway Turns on/off?
Click to expand...

So now that we had the pump discussion show me where you want to put this 3-way valve?

I would give up on the idea of connecting the new water feature with the Polaris cleaning system and connect it elsewhere in your plumbing, maybe with another pump.

Show us what you want to put in and what flow rate it requires.
 
Oh wow.. Thanks for feedback (and being local). Did not know this was an Anthony Pool so nice to know.

The Maybe answer is also what I had in my head. LOL. This is a pretty substantial investment of time/effort/money to build not knowing if it will run well. I have no way of knowing the output pressure/volume of the Polaris pump as it exists becasue all the water returns below the surface and through an orifice in the side of pool.

I assume the existing plumbed PVC line to Polaris location pressure side (exit at pool) would be the same diameter as by the pump yes/no? If so, I think it's 1 1/4" so more than enough to run a spillway (in my humble guess). What I don't know is how much pressure/volume the existing pump pushes to the pool - BUT- not through the Polaris connection which again has an orifice in it.

Can I assume that the existing 3/4 HP Polaris pump would move enough water through the 1 1/4" PVC. (With Main pump on also) so that I don't have to invest in any other new pump. The VSP are 220V and my Polaris is 110v as you know. The reason I really need a "best guess" is that I don't have another available 220 circuit there. A new VSP would require a new electrical run from the house panel and run 100 feet through attic and crawlspace.. This is where it becomes "not worth it". If answer to question is that 3/4" HP pump is not enough for water feature then is there a larger 110V pump available? Perhaps 1 HP.

Ideally, I would love to just put a 3 way valve in and the new feature but don't want to start cutting pipes (just for a water test) near my pool. I suppose I could cut into JUST the Polaris line and hook up temp hose and see how far it throws the water but again.. trying to educate without sacrificing existing (leak free) plumbing.

Sorry for depth of needs here just don't ever "pull trigger" without knowing that my aim is accurate...
 
Windsurfit said:
Oh wow.. Thanks for feedback (and being local). Did not know this was an Anthony Pool so nice to know.

The Maybe answer is also what I had in my head. LOL. This is a pretty substantial investment of time/effort/money to build not knowing if it will run well. I have no way of knowing the output pressure/volume of the Polaris pump as it exists becasue all the water returns below the surface and through an orifice in the side of pool.

I assume the existing plumbed PVC line to Polaris location pressure side (exit at pool) would be the same diameter as by the pump yes/no? If so, I think it's 1 1/4" so more than enough to run a spillway (in my humble guess). What I don't know is how much pressure/volume the existing pump pushes to the pool - BUT- not through the Polaris connection which again has an orifice in it.

Can I assume that the existing 3/4 HP Polaris pump would move enough water through the 1 1/4" PVC. (With Main pump on also) so that I don't have to invest in any other new pump. The VSP are 220V and my Polaris is 110v as you know. The reason I really need a "best guess" is that I don't have another available 220 circuit there. A new VSP would require a new electrical run from the house panel and run 100 feet through attic and crawlspace.. This is where it becomes "not worth it". If answer to question is that 3/4" HP pump is not enough for water feature then is there a larger 110V pump available? Perhaps 1 HP.

Ideally, I would love to just put a 3 way valve in and the new feature but don't want to start cutting pipes (just for a water test) near my pool. I suppose I could cut into JUST the Polaris line and hook up temp hose and see how far it throws the water but again.. trying to educate without sacrificing existing (leak free) plumbing.

Sorry for depth of needs here just don't ever "pull trigger" without knowing that my aim is accurate...
Click to expand...
Plumbing for the booster and to the Polaris is 1.5," at least above ground.
Are you looking to add a waterfall? If so just blocking the flow to the Polaris with a valve and running it all to the fall may be all you need without running the booster, especially if you increase the speed of a VSP. You would have to remember to move the valve back to allow flow to the Polaris when done with the fall. Sounds simple, but gets tiring after a while.
I'm going to guess that the first brown pipe at the left of the picture, under the SWG cell, is connected to the suction of the main pump and the brown pipe that feeds the front of the booster is connected to the black pipe (with the Aqua Doc magnet) underground. That's all I can get from the picture from that angle.
 
The "round area" pic is where the Polaris line is about 18" down. You can see the line on far right of pic. I can cut and tee in ground there to a new raised spillway. The spillway would be of any style as one pictured. I would assume around an 12-16" wide or so. I want to build a stacked stone wall of around 24" up from dirt level to accommodate. Open to thoughts? I would love moving water for two reasons... first- in hot hot hot Sac area the top 12" of pool is significantly warmer than the middle/bottom. Experience as told me that dropping water (pulled from below) onto the surface will mix it all up better. BUT most importantly, the sound of moving water has it's merits especially when you dislike the new very noisy neighbors and their screaming kids and their constant barking dogs!

Anyway, I would assume to install the 3 way valve anywhere near my in ground Tee by poolside. In other words NOT near pump as I figure that location would foul the standard pressure/volume needs to run the Polaris. If I install the 3 way valve closest to the spillway, then when it's "closed" for spillway... the existing plumbing for the Polaris should (in theory) revert back to normal???

I do appreciate all feedback and experience being offered up here...what a great forum "find".
 

Attachments

  • Pool-5.jpg
    Pool-5.jpg
    667.8 KB · Views: 9
  • Pool-6.jpg
    Pool-6.jpg
    742.1 KB · Views: 9

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Windsurfit said:
The "round area" pic is where the Polaris line is about 18" down. You can see the line on far right of pic. I can cut and tee in ground there to a new raised spillway. The spillway would be of any style as one pictured. I would assume around an 12-16" wide or so. I want to build a stacked stone wall of around 24" up from dirt level to accommodate. Open to thoughts? I would love moving water for two reasons... first- in hot hot hot Sac area the top 12" of pool is significantly warmer than the middle/bottom. Experience as told me that dropping water (pulled from below) onto the surface will mix it all up better. BUT most importantly, the sound of moving water has it's merits especially when you dislike the new very noisy neighbors and their screaming kids and their constant barking dogs!

Anyway, I would assume to install the 3 way valve anywhere near my in ground Tee by poolside. In other words NOT near pump as I figure that location would foul the standard pressure/volume needs to run the Polaris. If I install the 3 way valve closest to the spillway, then when it's "closed" for spillway... the existing plumbing for the Polaris should (in theory) revert back to normal???

I do appreciate all feedback and experience being offered up here...what a great forum "find".
Click to expand...
No, a booster pump will not move enough water for a sheer-descent type water fall. Sorry.
 
Thanks very much Poolman, that seems to be a very definitive answer. Will take some of the guesswork out of it. (And yes you were correct on Supply/return line config.)

So to accomplish this then requires a new Variable OR plumb out of my existing VSP? Either of which would seemingly need a new dedicated PVC run to pool anyway? Seems nuts to have two VSP's but I'm sure its done often when water features are involved. Do you happen to know what HP rated VSP would be needed to run a shear decent? Would 1.5 or 2 work or must it be 3hp... is there a "rule" of thumb regarding rise/vs diameter and pressure through pipe? I don't think width of opening matters as it's all about the diameter of line and pressure. Unless I'm mistaken.

I suppose that's why the pros want 5 figure money to do what seems really simple. But to trench and bust concrete does take work.
 
Windsurfit said:
Thanks very much Poolman, that seems to be a very definitive answer. Will take some of the guesswork out of it. (And yes you were correct on Supply/return line config.)

So to accomplish this then requires a new Variable OR plumb out of my existing VSP? Either of which would seemingly need a new dedicated PVC run to pool anyway? Seems nuts to have two VSP's but I'm sure its done often when water features are involved. Do you happen to know what HP rated VSP would be needed to run a shear decent? Would 1.5 or 2 work or must it be 3hp... is there a "rule" of thumb regarding rise/vs diameter and pressure through pipe? I don't think width of opening matters as it's all about the diameter of line and pressure. Unless I'm mistaken.

I suppose that's why the pros want 5 figure money to do what seems really simple. But to trench and bust concrete does take work.
Click to expand...

Or you can read the manuals...


1725567564295.png

1725567615573.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: mas985
Windsurfit said:
Thanks very much Poolman, that seems to be a very definitive answer. Will take some of the guesswork out of it. (And yes you were correct on Supply/return line config.)

So to accomplish this then requires a new Variable OR plumb out of my existing VSP? Either of which would seemingly need a new dedicated PVC run to pool anyway? Seems nuts to have two VSP's but I'm sure its done often when water features are involved. Do you happen to know what HP rated VSP would be needed to run a shear decent? Would 1.5 or 2 work or must it be 3hp... is there a "rule" of thumb regarding rise/vs diameter and pressure through pipe? I don't think width of opening matters as it's all about the diameter of line and pressure. Unless I'm mistaken.

I suppose that's why the pros want 5 figure money to do what seems really simple. But to trench and bust concrete does take work.
Click to expand...
Most people are happiest with the 10GPM per foot of waterfall opening, as shown in the charts ajw22 has sent. Its a pleasant sound and look.
You would need a system that can provide that at least. Lower flow rates usually don't give the laminar effect that most want, the falls have a very odd look to them when running, and are more easily disturbed by any wind that comes up..
 
What model pump do you have?

I cannot read this label on the front of your Pentair pump.

1725572754866.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply