Hi, wondering if anyone has been able to source mannitol and the btb dye in Canada? Can't find it anywhere.
New borate drop test at piscines-apollo vs. test strip
- Thread starter rcy
- Start date
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,419
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Mannitol
BTB
BTB
Thanks. The amazon link is crazy expensive for mannitol.. Looks like both can be had for about $75cad /$52usd delivered though. Still seems really. Pricey.. About double the already inflated price of the lamotte test strips, not to mention its probably a lifetime supply. Would probably work if I can find a few local's to split it with though. Thanks for your help!Mannitol
BTB
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,419
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
I, like others here, have abandoned Borates. I didn't get enough value with the use...
- Mar 5, 2020
- 3,221
- Pool Size
- 66000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V35
There is a discussion in the thread how you can use phenol red instead of BTB when knowing your TA and therefore knowing how many drops of R0009 to add rather than going for "straw yellow" with BTB.
X2. The pH rise is way more affected by keeping the TA lower.
Thanks. I was more so looking to achieve the esthetic improvement, though I note they seem to be quite subjective.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,655
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I wouldn’t operate my pool without borates. I’ve seen benefits in both pH and SWG health. Borates clamp the pH rise inside the cell to a little higher than the pKa of boric acid/borate equilibrium (around 9.5 or so). This greatly reduced we the possibility of forming calcium carbonate scale.
Lowering TA works too but the pH inside the cell can get very high right near the cathode surface.
Lowering TA works too but the pH inside the cell can get very high right near the cathode surface.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,419
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
I am still waffling on Borates. NOTA BENE: CSI IS NOT AN INDICATOR OF CORRSION.
I used Borates, and had a 316 Marine ladder corrode. There is no question, as you indicated in our Conversation, the Pukorius Index (PI) and Ryznar Index (RI) are used, rather than CSI for indication of corrosion. You looked at my PM Logs and based on my results and worst case scenario (CSI < -0.9), my Ryznar Index value was 9.15. Anything over 8 is considered corrosive to steel.
We didn't delve further. When I added Borates (Boric Acid), my pH was 7.6. I DID NOT note, or understand, that borates would lower pH by .2, even though it is in the PoolMath notes. Hence, I ended up at pH 7.4 and a high PI/RI. I'm still there a year after the addition. I'd like to understand more, but I would, based on my data point of 1, certainly add borates TO MY POOL, when the pH was 7.8-8 to raise the endpoint ph, and avoid a high PI/RI. I can't calculate PI or RI. But, if I understand correctly, my PI and/or RI would be lower if my pH were higher.
Sunny Blues
LifeTime Supporter
I just paid less than $26 total for both and my borates test was flawless.
Mannitol ~$12
BTB ~$12
You don’t have to buy the overly expensive brands. These are good quality and work great for the tests.
Ooos I just realized you said Canada. Is it possible for you to order from US Amazon??
Yes, but those particular items won't ship to Canada (or to Ontario anyway) , probably because they are not registered here etc. Thanks for trying though.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,655
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Any friends in the US willing to accept an order for you then you drive to go get it?
Round trip probably not worth the trouble, as I'm not really close to the border. Good idea though, ty. I might just bite the bullet on the higher cost. Who knows maybe I can "redistribute" locally lol.
Sunny Blues
LifeTime Supporter
So if one of us receive the product for you, is there no way we can’t just ship a package directly to you? Private mail?
Generous offer. It's possible it might work, but then again I can forsee white powder being a bit of a red flag in the mail, likely to be inspected lol. I'm going to hunt around a bit more locally. Appreciate the offer though.
Question on the blue color...
I can't tell if I'm all the way to "baby blue" color at one drop of R-0010 in the first step. It's pretty close to the picture, but there might be a very slight green tint to it (very slight). Adding a second drop takes it to definitively blue, I just wonder if I've taken it to the "deeper blue" that the directions say to avoid. Same on the second round of R-0010. There's a spot where I'm 90% sure I've achieved "baby blue", but maybe there's a slight greenish tinge (maybe, hard to tell), and one more drop makes me 100% sure I've reached blue. In both cases, I'm more confident I know where I'm at on the color curve when I add that drop that takes me to the deeper blue.
Is it fine to use that as my reference point? I'm just trying to match the starting blue and ending blue, correct? Does it matter if I pick a spot on the curve that I think is easier to see? Or does taking it to what might be the deeper blue ruin the test?
I can't tell if I'm all the way to "baby blue" color at one drop of R-0010 in the first step. It's pretty close to the picture, but there might be a very slight green tint to it (very slight). Adding a second drop takes it to definitively blue, I just wonder if I've taken it to the "deeper blue" that the directions say to avoid. Same on the second round of R-0010. There's a spot where I'm 90% sure I've achieved "baby blue", but maybe there's a slight greenish tinge (maybe, hard to tell), and one more drop makes me 100% sure I've reached blue. In both cases, I'm more confident I know where I'm at on the color curve when I add that drop that takes me to the deeper blue.
Is it fine to use that as my reference point? I'm just trying to match the starting blue and ending blue, correct? Does it matter if I pick a spot on the curve that I think is easier to see? Or does taking it to what might be the deeper blue ruin the test?
Sunny Blues
LifeTime Supporter
I’ve always wondered this too.
If I remember correctly there is only 4ppm difference in each drop. I have sometimes errored on the side of using that next drop to be sure knowing it really is just a difference of 50 ppm vs 54. Or 30 ppm vs 34. But other times I take the one less drop reading. In the end I’m in a good ballpark if I get it near the 50 I’m aiming for, whether that’s actually 46 or 54.
If I remember correctly there is only 4ppm difference in each drop. I have sometimes errored on the side of using that next drop to be sure knowing it really is just a difference of 50 ppm vs 54. Or 30 ppm vs 34. But other times I take the one less drop reading. In the end I’m in a good ballpark if I get it near the 50 I’m aiming for, whether that’s actually 46 or 54.
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I hear ya, I repeated the test both ways, and they did differ by 4ppm. Which is definitely enough precision... I just wonder what best practice is.
I feel like there's always a drop where I feel like the green is gone / near gone and I've reached "baby blue", and then another drop where it's definitive. I feel like the second drop is the bigger color change, more easily identifiable transition. This is true of both steps (Getting to the starting color, and then returning to it after the Mannitol). Does it matter where the starting point was, as long as you have confidence the starting and ending colors are the same? Or is there something important about starting from the precise shade of blue?
I feel like there's always a drop where I feel like the green is gone / near gone and I've reached "baby blue", and then another drop where it's definitive. I feel like the second drop is the bigger color change, more easily identifiable transition. This is true of both steps (Getting to the starting color, and then returning to it after the Mannitol). Does it matter where the starting point was, as long as you have confidence the starting and ending colors are the same? Or is there something important about starting from the precise shade of blue?
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