Mini Pebble finish problem

[Jimfwtx]

Looking for some insight and advice as to what caused our new re-plaster to fail and what is the proper process to now correct it. Last May we had the pool remodeled with StoneScapes mini pebble aggregate finish. Sometime around late July or August we started notices some brown discoloration that spread over time. In October the contractor drained the pool and did an acid wash but that did not change the discoloration. It just loosened the aggregate pebbles and created a heavy cloud of plaster dust when the pool was refilled.
The contractor then contacted the plaster install company who now drained the pool again and did another acid wash, even though we and the contractor knew it was not going to fix the issue. I am to the point I want them to chip it all out and start over. They are saying they want to first wire brush and grind it down to see if they can get to color. Right now the aggregate can be loosened in the brown areas by just rubbing it with my fingers.

Any ideas what caused the issue on the first re-plaster? What should I require them to do to fix it the right way without trying to just get through a few years and see 'ya later warranty.

 

[cssnms]

Yikes that doesn't look good.

Is this Wet Edge or PebbleTec or some other brand?

What does the manufacturer who warranties the plaster say?

 

[ajw22]

I don't think that plaster is fixable.

Two acid washes and you have loose pebbles and now they want to grind down the plaster further. You have lost years of life off of the finish.

I can't say exactly what caused the problem other then it sounds like an application failure.

Did anyone try a paste of vitamin C on the brown areas in case they are iron stains?

Let's see what @onBalance thinks.

 

[Jimfwtx]

Yikes that doesn't look good.

Is this Wet Edge or PebbleTec or some other brand?

What does the manufacturer who warranties the plaster say?

I initially did not want to put the brand name in the post because I thought it may be a violation. Its StoneScapes and I have not contacted them yet. Still working through the contractor and plaster installer.

 

[Jimfwtx]

I don't think that plaster is fixable.

Two acid washes and you have loose pebbles and now they want to grind down the plaster further. You have lost years of life off of the finish.

I can't say exactly what caused the problem other then it sounds like an application failure.

Did anyone try a paste of vitamin C on the brown areas in case they are iron stains?

Let's see what @onBalance thinks.

Thanks for the response. They tried vitamin c and some other chemicals before the first drain and acid wash. The close up pictures are one with the blue plaster visible and the other has no plaster remaining between the pebbles - that is the brown areas showing.

 

[onBalance]

I see brown pebbles. Are the "brown areas" the pebbles themselves? Or is it the cement material between the pebbles that has the brown discoloration?
It appears that a lot of cement material (surrounding the pebbles) has been removed due to the acid treatments and causing the pebbles to become unattached and being removed from the plaster surface. I consider that situation unacceptable.
At this point, I believe that the plastering contractor has to be allowed to attempt a "fix" for your pool. It might not be fixable, but he has the right to try. A re-plaster is probably the only acceptable remedy for you.

 

[Jimfwtx]

I see brown pebbles. Are the "brown areas" the pebbles themselves? Or is it the cement material between the pebbles that has the brown discoloration?
It appears that a lot of cement material (surrounding the pebbles) has been removed due to the acid treatments and causing the pebbles to become unattached and being removed from the plaster surface. I consider that situation unacceptable.
At this point, I believe that the plastering contractor has to be allowed to attempt a "fix" for your pool. It might not be fixable, but he has the right to try. A re-plaster is probably the only acceptable remedy for you.

Thanks for the response. The Plaster contractor came by this morning to see the drained pool. He said it was scaling and I am not certain what he means by that.

The brown areas are the pebbles and its brown because the blue plaster between the pebbles is gone. The brown spots were present before they acid washed so my logic is that the plaster was depleting around the pebbles before they did the first acid wash.

The plaster contractor's plan of action as stated this morning is that they are going to resurface, but they are not going to chip out all the current finish. He said they would chip out around the tile and fittings and then scrap the rest of the existing finish. I expressed my concern that if the existing plaster is depleting then the new plaster on top is not going to adhere to it and that will be a problem down the road for us. Is my concern valid?

I am giving the contractor lots of freedom to make the proper corrections. We are easy going about it and not pushing any demands other than its fixed the right way without cutting corners. Our biggest concern is the unknown of future problems and is finish going to last as long as it is supposed to last.

 

[onBalance]

I don't see any scaling.
There is another possible issue here. The blue cement could be bleaching out and turning white. You could examine closely to see if that is true.
But since they are going to replaster, I guess the plaster company understands that the problem is their responsibility.

 

[MAPR-Austin]

Was the old surface a white base with blue specks? In one of the pictures you posted it looks like you can see the old surface showing through.

 

[Jimfwtx]

Was the old surface a white base with blue specks? In one of the pictures you posted it looks like you can see the old surface showing through.

It was. They chipped out about 80% of the old plaster due to hollow spots and then painted on a bonding coat before re-plastering with the aggregate finish. I guess that would be a very thin coat to get to the old plaster that easily. Makes me more worried.

 

[cssnms]

Call and put the manufacturer on notice.

 

[MAPR-Austin]

It was. They chipped out about 80% of the old plaster due to hollow spots and then painted on a bonding coat before re-plastering with the aggregate finish. I guess that would be a very thin coat to get to the old plaster that easily. Makes me more worried.

Yep. 1) The pebble finish should be thicker than that. 2) the bond coat clearly failed in at least that spot, I don't even see any bond coat visible so it didn't stick to the old surface.

 

[Jimfwtx]

I see brown pebbles. Are the "brown areas" the pebbles themselves? Or is it the cement material between the pebbles that has the brown discoloration?
It appears that a lot of cement material (surrounding the pebbles) has been removed due to the acid treatments and causing the pebbles to become unattached and being removed from the plaster surface. I consider that situation unacceptable.
At this point, I believe that the plastering contractor has to be allowed to attempt a "fix" for your pool. It might not be fixable, but he has the right to try. A re-plaster is probably the only acceptable remedy for you.

Update. These are pics of the re-plaster they did today and they are coming back tomorrow to acid wash. This is Stone Scape Aqua Blue Minin Pebble. I still have concerns based on that it does not look much different now. I understand the color looks different with water but the issue with the full pool before was that these brown spots were very visible as they are after this fresh re-plaster.

The picture labeled as "most dense" is an area on the step that is how I would think the finish should look with plenty of plaster and aggregate. Is this how the whole pool should look after a new plaster job? The brown areas again look like the blue plaster was washed out. Are they rinsing too much plaster out?

I have tried to find as many pictures of this color right after and install before water added and the few I did find does show some brown but not this extensive.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Do you have pictures of the installation at various times?

 

[cssnms]

What did the manufacturer say?

 

[Jimfwtx]

Do you have pictures of the installation at various times?

Here are the install pictures from first spray to final trowel. The crew definitely had the process and the coordinated teamwork nailed down.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Did you see them use plastic sheeting during the process?

 

[Jimfwtx]

Yes, they did layout plastic from half the shallow area and down the slope. It was about 12-18" from the sides. The area around the drain did not have plastic..

 

[Jimfwtx]

What did the manufacturer say?

I called NPT today and sent them pictures. They said they would give me an opinion if it looks as expected. I did not call them before because the contractor agreed to replaster.

 

[Otto24]

Did any water puddle or sit long running down to the drain? Couple things could of happen. Acid washing creates channels running down to the drain because trowling can never be perfect by hand. Acid has to be diluted a certain way most dont. Filling the pool can stain the surface if not done right.
Calcium plays a big part if it has to much during the start up process the water starts leching everything out of the plaster in search of chems. So if the start isnt done right you get bad scale on top of the staining.

This happen to mine and im still dealing with i had aqua blue. With 3 hoses to fill and they never told me how so it stained because the sun is hitting cause the curing process to start thats why they say never turn off the water when you fill.

Right ive been doing a scale process they told me to do but still barely made a dent and i dont want to do an acid wash and kill the surface. Best of luck man