Pentair CCP320 filter: issues with cleaning

[agonista]

Hello TFP!

I recently had a Pentair CCP320 cartridge filter installed and have been cleaning it daily as part of a SLAM I am almost done with. As a result of this work, I have noticed a few issues that I am looking for input on from a more experienced user:

- filter pressure - After cleaning with a filter flosser hose attachment, the clean PSI reading on the pressure gauge is 16-18 PSI. Is this unusually high? Should I acid wash these cartridges? I ask because my prior DE filter would have a clean pressure of roughly 8-10 PSI. The maintenance service I was using left these filters out in the sun for a week plus while using flocculant / sequestrant.
- top manifold - The black plastic top manifold (part 170027) that fits into the top of the filter cartridges is very difficult to remove when cleaning the filter. I need to use something like a wide screwdriver to pry the top manifold ports out of the top of each filter cartridge, which puts a lot of wear and tear on the rubber cartridge top and the underside of the top manifold. I am deforming the plastic on the underside of the top manifold when prying these ports out. Is this normal, or could it be a consequence of leaving the cartridges sitting in the hot Florida sun for a week, possibly shrinking the rubber top so it does not fit properly?
- compression spring - The compression spring is not vertical when installed on top of the top manifold. This spring has an odd offset, making it especially annoying to close the filter.
- clamp ring - This clamp ring is a real challenge to install, possibly because of the compression ring problem I mention above. Is there a trick for installing these clamp rings?

As a noob to maintaining the pool and equipment, I am unsure how much of this is just standard fare versus this particular filter not being good or my maintenance service having damaged the equipment.

Insight appreciated, thanks for reading.

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

I'll reply from the position of a CCP520 owner. It's the same filter as yours, only taller.

16-18 psi is high. But it depends on your pump speed. What kind of pump do you have and what speed do you run it at? I run my Intelliflo VS at 1800 rpm, resulting in 8 psi in my big filter.

I would never leave my filter parts out in the hot sun. You will have to check them carefully for damage and repair or replace as needed. I have never needed tools to remove my manifold, I just pull it right off.

Your spring may have gotten bent. You ought to be able to order a replacement or maybe even pick one up at your local pool store. Probably the cheapest part of the filter.

I find the belt clamp to be the most difficult part of reassembling the filter. It's unwieldy as heck. You can get it on with a bit of practice, but the best thing is to enlist a helper. Have your helper fit the back side of the clamp onto the tank while you handle the front and assemble the locking mechanism. The helper can also help with the tapping of the rubber mallet.

 

[agonista]

I'll reply from the position of a CCP520 owner. It's the same filter as yours, only taller.

16-18 psi is high. But it depends on your pump speed. What kind of pump do you have and what speed do you run it at? I run my Intelliflo VS at 1800 rpm, resulting in 8 psi in my big filter.

I would never leave my filter parts out in the hot sun. You will have to check them carefully for damage and repair or replace as needed. I have never needed tools to remove my manifold, I just pull it right off.

Your spring may have gotten bent. You ought to be able to order a replacement or maybe even pick one up at your local pool store. Probably the cheapest part of the filter.

I find the belt clamp to be the most difficult part of reassembling the filter. It's unwieldy as heck. You can get it on with a bit of practice, but the best thing is to enlist a helper. Have your helper fit the back side of the clamp onto the tank while you handle the front and assemble the locking mechanism. The helper can also help with the tapping of the rubber mallet.

I have a single speed Waterway SMF-120 (2.2 HP, 220 V, 9.7 A) with 2" pipes. The motor plate shows it runs at 3450 RPM.

I figured that I shouldn't have to work super hard to get the top manifold off, so your input suggests the cartridges may have gotten damaged by the sun, e.g. a week of sun exposure shrank the rubber on top of the cartridge enough to cause the bad fit. I will order a single replacement cartridge filter to confirm this hypothesis.

Sounds like the compression spring got bent, I will replace that.

My old Jandy DE filter was also a pain to install the clamp ring, so I guess this is just part of the game. I found that by using my chest to push down on the lid and keep it compressed while seating the ring, I can get the ring installed with a bit of extra swearing.

 

[Dirk]

I could have written Rocket's post, except I have the CCP320 and my PSI at 1500 RPM is about 5 or 6 PSI. I don't think 16-18PSI is out of range with all the pressure your full-speed pump is generating.

I've never had to pry off the manifold from the cartridges, but they are pretty tight.

Re-clamping is no fun, same here. I have to "suggest" to it to cooperate by tapping it into place while I tighten. Tighten some --> tap around the ring --> tighten some --> tap around the ring --> tighten some --> tap around the ring --> etc.

You're done tightening when the spring is fully compressed. You might try calling it names or swearing at it. Seems to help.

Be sure you turn off all the breakers to the pad while working on the filter. It's actually a potentially dangerous job, especially with a 3450 RPM pump. An incorrectly sealed, or partially sealed filter top can launch itself over your roof! If you are leaning on it and/or otherwise in it's path of trajectory while installing the ring when the pump fires up, you'd be seriously injured. You should turn off the breakers anytime you are working on anything plumbing-related on your pad.

 

[Dirk]

I was curious, so... I just went out and turned off my pump, waited a bit then turned it back on.

In priming mode, which I have set for 3000 RPM, I got a filter pressure of 22 PSI.
When it ramped back down to my solar heater setting of 2200 RPM, the pressure was about 13 PSI.
And I haven't cleaned my filter yet this year, but it doesn't change pressures much even when I went two years once without cleaning.

I'd say your 16-18 PSI at 3450 RPM is fine. You can't really use your old filter's pressure as a reference. You can't really use mine or Rocket's either, as there are a lot of factors that affect that pressure reading (number of returns, plumbing configuration, pump RPM, types and number of components inline with the flow's path, etc, etc), but you're definitely in the ballpark of normal.

 

[agonista]

I have received and installed both a replacement compression spring and filter cartridges. Here are my observations after making those changes for reference:

* The new compression spring has made installing the top of the filter housing easier because it no longer has a wacky horizontal offset from the previous bent spring.
* I replaced OEM Pentair cartridges with PoolPure ones from Amazon (26" tall, $170 delivered). The Pentair ones have a rubber top and bottom, and it appears this rubber did indeed shrink due to prolonged sun exposure, which led to an extremely tight fit on the bottom and top manifold ports. The PoolPure ones have a hard plastic top and bottom and fit much more loosely into the bottom and top manifold, which is likely how the OEM ones used to fit prior to the sun damage. Clean filter pressure drop is 13 PSI with a 3450 RPM single speed motor, which is an improvement over the OEM ones (16-18 PSI).

 

[Dirk]

Thanks for the update.

The PoolPure ones have a hard plastic top and bottom and fit much more loosely into the bottom and top manifold,

Hmm. That doesn't sound good to me (though I'm just speculating). Without a good seal, some amount of crud will bypass the filter media and find its way back into the pool. Like a hole in the filter media would. It could also account for the "better" pressure reading. I suppose it depends on how loose "much more loosely" is.

@Jimrahbe, is this any real concern? Do we have any data on third-party cartridge filter performance?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Dirk, Agonista,

If they are sloppy loose that might be an issue, but I am assuming your old ones were really tight and then new ones fit like they should.

I use 3rd party cartridges and they have no slop and they are not too tight.

To be honest you have them now, and can't return them, so just use them and see how well they work.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[agonista]

The fit is along the lines Jim describes - it's no longer way too tight, and is instead fitting comfortably such that i can pull the cartridges off the top and bottom manifold without wiggling a bunch or using a pry tool. I will reevaluate the fit at my next filter cleaning.

Prior to and during my recent SLAM, I felt like I could never get the Pentair cartridges fully clean, even with a filter flosser and spending a good 5 minutes per cartridge while rinsing them. This may be a function of their being exposed to various pool chemicals, but I cannot say for certain because I only took over maintenance after this had occurred.

 

[Jimrahbe]

A,

I have never timed it, but I suspect that it takes me a good 10 minutes per cartridge.

I too use a filter-flosser. I clean them top to bottom until no more dirty water at the bottom. I then flip then over and do it all again.

The only good news is that I on have to do it twice a year.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[agonista]

A,

I have never timed it, but I suspect that it takes me a good 10 minutes per cartridge.

I too use a filter-flosser. I clean them top to bottom until no more dirty water at the bottom. I then flip then over and do it all again.

The only good news is that I on have to do it twice a year.

Thanks,

Jim R.

after cleaning the filter daily for 7 or 8 days in a row, i was trying to speed up the process. the new cartridges appear to be behaving qualitatively different from the pentair ones.

when i would clean the pentair ones, the pressure would go from 16-18 immediately after cleaning back up to 20-25 within an hour of cleaning. the poolpure ones are holding steady at 13 from 0800 until 1700 today. perhaps this speaks to the pentair ones having been damaged by chemicals put in by the soon-to-be-prior pool guy.

 

[Dirk]

The fit is along the lines Jim describes - it's no longer way too tight, and is instead fitting comfortably such that i can pull the cartridges off the top and bottom manifold without wiggling a bunch or using a pry tool. I will reevaluate the fit at my next filter cleaning.

That sounds fine to me.

I spend probably 30 minutes per cartridge. I use these on the end of a hose:



I run the nozzle through every pleat, one row at a time, until there is minimal dirt rinsing out. Then I go over the entire cartridge again (but farther away, as sort of a post rinse).

Some areas of the filters always look somewhat stained. I don't go after that. The pressure-washing and/or strong chemicals that would take would do more harm than good to the filter media. My primary goal is to remove as much of the organic material as possible, as that is a constant demand on the chlorine. The condition of my filter virtually never increases the filter pressure, I just don't get that kind of crud in my pool.

I treat the filter media gently (which is why I have that valve before the nozzle). I believe it is the cleaning of the cartridges that contribute to them wearing out more than anything else.

 

[Dirk]

when i would clean the pentair ones, the pressure would go from 16-18 immediately after cleaning back up to 20-25 within an hour of cleaning. the poolpure ones are holding steady at 13 from 0800 until 1700 today. perhaps this speaks to the pentair ones having been damaged by chemicals put in by the soon-to-be-prior pool guy.

There's another possible explanation for those sets of symptoms. The Pentair cartridges might be of a finer media, which would explain a higher clean pressure reading. The lower clean pressure reading of the Poolpure filters indicates they are allowing more flow, which could mean they are not as fine a mesh. The finer mesh of the Pentair cartridges would trap more, and more finer debris, which would clog them up sooner. The Poolpure might be allowing more gunk through, so they don't clog up as fast.

The other possibility is that the Pentair cartridges were permanently clogged up with stuff that your cleaning just couldn't break free, which would mean they wouldn't allow as much flow, even after a cleaning, and would clog up faster. Older cartridges can exhibit this behavior.

Hard to say now which theory fits best. Only a direct comparison of new and old Pentair cartridges, and then new Pentair and new Poolpure cartridges would answer that.

 

[Newdude]

The other possibility is that the Pentair cartridges were permanently clogged up with stuff that your cleaning just couldn't break free, which would mean they wouldn't allow as much flow, even after a cleaning, and would clog up faster. Older cartridges can exhibit this behavior.

+1

Imagine how much sunscreen, body oils, and whatnot they suck up over time that wouldn't necessarily rinse out.

I give mine a TSP / Acid bath once a year to get that stuff.

 

[agonista]

There's another possible explanation for those sets of symptoms. The Pentair cartridges might be of a finer media, which would explain a higher clean pressure reading. The lower clean pressure reading of the Poolpure filters indicates they are allowing more flow, which could mean they are not as fine a mesh. The finer mesh of the Pentair cartridges would trap more, and more finer debris, which would clog them up sooner. The Poolpure might be allowing more gunk through, so they don't clog up as fast.

The other possibility is that the Pentair cartridges were permanently clogged up with stuff that your cleaning just couldn't break free, which would mean they wouldn't allow as much flow, even after a cleaning, and would clog up faster. Older cartridges can exhibit this behavior.

Hard to say now which theory fits best. Only a direct comparison of new and old Pentair cartridges, and then new Pentair and new Poolpure cartridges would answer that.

i suspect the latter scenario is what was going on. no matter how much time i spent spraying the cartridges, there was some opaque junk in them i couldn't get out. when i spent 20 min per cartridge, i got the pressure down to 16, but i experimented and with only 5 min per cartridge it would go down to 18.

i have a small fountain plumbed in parallel with my returns, so it acts as a visible indicator of the filter pressure. even after slam-ing and keeping the chemical levels right, the fountain would never run properly with the pentair filters. to keep the fountain working properly would require cleaning the filters every few days, which is ridiculous.

 

[agonista]

+1

Imagine how much sunscreen, body oils, and whatnot they suck up over time that wouldn't necessarily rinse out.

I give mine a TSP / Acid bath once a year to get that stuff.

in my case, i had literally never swam in the pool with this filter until the slam was completed a couple weeks ago, so these filters never even had an opportunity to accumulate sunscreen and body oils on them.

the guy installed the filter and the pool was unusable from that point until i completed the slam.

 

[DavidArmenB]

+1

Imagine how much sunscreen, body oils, and whatnot they suck up over time that wouldn't necessarily rinse out.

I give mine a TSP / Acid bath once a year to get that stuff.

I have seen TSP mentioned in these forums multiple times. Are you guys referring to the cleaning agent Trisodium Phosphate? Or is TSP an acronym for something totally different?

 

[mknauss]

Trisodium Phosphate

Thats it.

 

[Dirk]

I give mine a TSP / Acid bath once a year to get that stuff.

Hmm. That would break two of my rules. Harsh chemicals on my filter media and putting anything but chlorine, acid, CYA and salt into my pool.

I suppose one could rinse the TSP well enough, but I gotta wonder what TSP and an acid bath are doing to the longevity of your filter media.

Nothing scientific about my ban on harshing the cartridges, just a hunch on my part...

I gave them an OxiClean bath once. I figured that would be relatively benign. And it was, it didn't do much at all for the stains.

 

[Newdude]

Nothing scientific about my ban on harshing the cartridges, just a hunch on my part...

My PB told me to soak them for 24 hours in 50:1 MA at the end of the season. Long before TFP, the PB simply must have been right, Right ?


But 6.5 years later, the carts were as clean as new, outside of some fading of the rubber/plastic housing. They were going strong when we moved at 8.5 years.

I didn't MA bath my new carts last year because we didn't use it alot with no patio. From here on out I will do as I always did.

It's rumored that MA can fuse the cartridges solid if metals are present so I don't reccomend it unless that's not a concern for the member. Or do a TSP soak first, then the MA.