Wiring on new sub panel problems

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Coz

Coz

Silver Supporter
Jul 10, 2022
58
South Carolina
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-15
So, I am in the middle of a new pool install. My house was built 2 years ago and I had the builder install a standard 4 wire run to a sub panel for the future pool. Unfortunately I was off a bit on the location of the equipment pad and the sub panel had to be moved about 10ft. I hired the electrician my pool installer recommended and am now questioning his work. To extend the wire run he installed a junction box and additional conduit to a new sub panel. I opened the junction box and sub panel a few days ago and was immediately concerned. Instead of running the standard 4 wires to the new sub panel he only ran the 2 hot wires and the ground 😲. Additionally, he taped the end of the neutral from the main panel, not even a wire nut, :mad: The sub panel has double poles for the 240v equipment, but also has 2 single poles for the 120v equipment. Unbelievably, he has the neutrals for the 120v equipment attached to the ground bar along with the rest of the ground runs, which is connected to the main panel ground. I am not a licensed electrician, but this all seems wrong. Is there any reason he would wire it this way? The only place neutrals and ground can be connected is at the main panel.
 
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JamesW said:
This is worse than just connecting the grounds and neutrals at a subpanel.

This is forcing all neutral current to travel back to the main panel on the grounds.
Click to expand...
And my wife wonders why I have trust issues with contractors...
 
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Coz said:
Yes, and it passed inspection…argh!
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Time to call the inspector and have him come back out.
Ask how it should be wired and where in the NEC it states that.

For a subpanel that has 240v and 120v, a total of 4 wires are required:
  • 2 hot legs - usually 120v each
  • 1 neutral leg - attached to a standoff (neutral bar) from the panel enclosure with no metallic connection between the neutral bar and the enclosure or ground.
  • 1 ground leg - attached to the grounding bar that is grounded to the metal enclosure
Post a few pics of the inside of the junction box and the inside of the subpanel.
 
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proavia said:
Time to call the inspector and have him come back out.
Ask how it should be wired and where in the NEC it states that.

For a subpanel that has 240v and 120v, a total of 4 wires are required:
  • 2 hot legs - usually 120v each
  • 1 neutral leg - attached to a standoff (neutral bar) from the panel enclosure with no metallic connection between the neutral bar and the enclosure or ground.
  • 1 ground leg - attached to the grounding bar that is grounded to the metal enclosure
Post a few pics of the inside of the junction box and the inside of the subpanel.
Click to expand...
I will post pics tomorrow morning. Seems like the guy is a total hack, but my pool install has been ridiculously bad from the start.

I bought my fiberglass shell from Leisure Pools and the whole thing has been an absolute nightmare. It's been four months and the pool is not totally installed. Additionally, the "expert installer" installed my pool way off level....so much so that I am pondering getting into the pool install business. Seriously....
 
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proavia said:
Time to call the inspector and have him come back out.
Ask how it should be wired and where in the NEC it states that.

For a subpanel that has 240v and 120v, a total of 4 wires are required:
  • 2 hot legs - usually 120v each
  • 1 neutral leg - attached to a standoff (neutral bar) from the panel enclosure with no metallic connection between the neutral bar and the enclosure or ground.
  • 1 ground leg - attached to the grounding bar that is grounded to the metal enclosure
Post a few pics of the inside of the junction box and the inside of the subpanel.
Click to expand...
Had a couple busy days so took me longer to post these pics than planned.

Here is the junction box where the neutral from the main box is taped:
junction box.jpg

Here is the sub panel and a closer picture of the 120v neutrals on with the grounds.
pool sub panel.jpg
sub panel 2.jpg
 
I would file a complaint against the electrician.

Their work is so bad that I would suspend or revoke their license.

I would also file a complaint against the inspector for passing this mess.

In any case, keep the power turned off until it can be done correctly by a qualified electrician.
 
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That bar is the neutral bar. Neutrals should be connected to it.

That panel is designed to be a main panel where the equipment grounding conductor and neutral are put into different holes of a shared neutral/ground bus bar.

When that panel is used as a subpanel a separate grounding bar needs to be installed in the panel.

A white wire should not be used as a hot leg of a 240V circuit, or black electrical tape should be wrapped around the white wire. It should be a red or blue wire.

And then the white neutral wire for the feeder circuit should be connected to the terminal at the top of the neutral bar.

Also if those CBs are feeding your pool pump and other equipment most of them should be GFCI Cbs.

That panel needs to be redone with new CBs, a ground bar, and a neutral feed. It is not safe as is.

pool-sub-panel-jpg.456428


 
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ajw22 said:
That bar is the neutral bar. Neutrals should be connected to it.

That panel is designed to be a main panel where the equipment grounding conductor and neutral are put into different holes of a shared neutral/ground bus bar.

When that panel is used as a subpanel a separate grounding bar needs to be installed in the panel.

A white wire should not be used as a hot leg of a 240V circuit, or black electrical tape should be wrapped around the white wire. It should be a red or blue wire.

And then the white neutral wire for the feeder circuit should be connected to the terminal at the top of the neutral bar.

Also if those CBs are feeding your pool pump and other equipment most of them should be GFCI Cbs.

That panel needs to be redone with new CBs, a ground bar, and a neutral feed. It is not safe as is.

pool-sub-panel-jpg.456428


Click to expand...
I agree with everything you are saying and appreciate the confirmation of all the issues I saw. Right now I am pondering just scrapping it all and installing a new Pentair Intellicenter. Problem being I didn't really want to drop $4K on that right now. So I may just install a grounding bar and re-wire the taped off neutral to the neutral bar, along with new GFCIs. Argh
 
Not to open a bigger can of worms, but also check the connections at your main panel and also check to see if the main panel is possibly over loaded. The calculated load on the main panel should be checked. As other have stated, there are multiple issues with the connections in the sub panel and with wire connections in the junction box. Unless everything that comes off the breakers in the subpanel is protected with a gfci's the breaker should be gfci. I generally prefer the breaker to be the gfci that using a receptacle. It might cost a little more be they are easier to trouble shoot and easier to replace a breaker and less likely to be wired wrong too.
 

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