Am I crazy? Being my own contractor for pool? (DIY?)

[howdy!]

Many of you gave me some input (thanks again!) on some recent pricing that I have received for our pool and how high prices are due to demand. Well, I visited with a buddy of mine that is having one built right now and he mentioned how the excavation, rebar, electrical and plumbing, and gunite were recently completed on his new build. He visited with each of the subs and they mentioned that the markup from a PB contractor was around 35%. Made my jaw drop!!

I decided to reach out to a local gunite company (did many pools in the neighborhood) and they quoted me $15,000 for 60 yards with a 3 year warranty. Also, a 3% discount if I pay cash. Now, this makes me wonder what each of the other major jobs would run me if I paid cash?? Obviously, I will have to find reputable guys in each of these trades, but many of them do multiple jobs in my neighborhood. I actually started to document each of these when I happen to see them in my neighborhood for future reference!

Have any of you done this before? Pro’s or cons? I like to think of myself as a DIY kinda guy and I’m very tempted to take on this project. If it could save me $30,000-$50,000, is it worth it? Would love any feedback if ya got any!!


Excavation - $3,000-$5,000

Rebar - $3,000 - $4,000 ?

Plumbing - $5,000 - $7,500 ?

Electrical - $3,000

Gunite - $15,000

Plaster - $6,000-$8,000

Coping and Tile - ?

Equipment - $8,000 – $10,000

Decking on 1,500-1,800 sq./ft. - ?

Permitting for town - $1,000-$1,500

Everything above minus decking and coping/tile comes to $54,000.

 

[ajw22]

Lot's of folks here have done Owner Builds.

Lots of information for you at,,,

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[howdy!]

Wonderful. Thanks for those links

 

[kimkats]

Like stated above many have done it with success. The number one thing to know is it still a LOT of work for YOU with or without a pool builder. Ask your self if you can leave work at the drop of a hat to meet a trades person when they just show up to do the work. Communication, well the lack of, is the biggest complaint for most builds with or without a pool builder (PB).

 

[setsailsoon]

H,

I'm in the process of building a house and pool in S. Florida. Here's what I've found so far:

Yes PB will mark up 25-35% and most are on the high end since demand has gone crazy since covid started and supply chain plus labor shortage have dramatically reduced the number they can build per year. So they have to add margin to avoid a big pay cut. But do remember a good builder earns every bit of his keep. There's a lot of hard work plus many interfaces to manage and it takes a LOT of time. If you're doing this first time you'll learn a lot about it the hard way and it will increase your costs. That said you can save at least 20% from my experience so far... much more in some cases. You'll also have to negotiate intensely. PB's have supplier networks and volume discounts that you may be able to get but it's HARD. You'll give up some of that "PB margin" here.

First thing you'll want to do is develop a scope of work so you have some measurements to go by. It's impossible to verify your numbers without some idea of size even for a factored estimate but I think many are way low. For example the electrical cost of $3000 is way low. A power center, and automation materials will cost more that $2500. Double that for installed cost. That's not including anything else like pump, filter, heater, lighting, bond grid wire and installation. You'll also need to wire the sub panel and hopefully you can do that from your main breaker. Also, you'll need at least a structural design stamped by a License PE. This will cost about $2000. Not saying this to scare you off from OB. Just trying to help you be realistic from the start. Here's a few real numbers from my pool so far that may be helpful:

• My pool is about 24,000 gal and PB cost would be about $110,000 post-covid cost
• My cost if I OB is about $75,000. This cost is pretty good since I know a lot of the quantities and it's not just factored. It's also based on current market conditions in my area.
• There is a large difference between a basic pool and high end (mine is mid to high-end).
• A full screened in enclosure is about $30,000 today and was $15,000 7 years ago.
• Here's an example of what you're up against with covid and supply chain. Titan Concrete is one of the largest concrete suppliers in the country. I called them early December to get price and delivery for my slab pour. Their response was "we're not taking anymore orders for concrete on east cost of Florida until further notice". A year before Covid they would fight to be first in line for my order.

I would contract a pool designer asap. They will help you get started and develop a preliminary design that can be used to get realistic estimates. You can also evaluate costs of upgrades to make solid cost benefit decisions that work for you. Preliminary design will cost $400 to $800 and so long as you build the pool it will all be needed anyway. If you decide not to build at least you're not throwing away much $.

Once you get happy with the preliminary design, lock in your scope and complete the design for another $1000 to $1500 and start your permitting, start bidding, build a schedule, and a cash flow curve so you'll have a real good idea of how much you'll need when. You may also need a soil boring before detailed design. This should cost well under $1000 and some will say it's not needed. I've done enough construction to learn it's always needed. If you have hard-money bids you will only need about 15% contingency so long as you can "freeze the scope". Freeze means "if it works and is safe-no changes". If you make changes you'll find out the hard way why late changes cost so much using a PB.

Lastly, keep in mind a lot of the benefit of an OB is dependent on you. You'll have some capabilities you can lever to benefit yourself. We have threads here by people that did their own excavation. I don't have near that level of skill. I have managed a LOT of complex construction project so I plan to lever that to maximize value. But I'll just have to miss out on the excavation contractor's margin and other sub's.

I hope this helps and good luck with your pool.

Chris

PS don't under-estimate the importance of a schedule. Make a list of activities and how long each will take. Then determine which are required to start before something else so you can figure out the total time. These days delivery times are crazy so you (or your sub) will have to order almost everything up front. Sub-contractors waiting on materials can be very, very expensive. Microsoft Project is excellent but pretty expensive. I'm using an open-source program called Project Libre. It's a little clunky but works plenty well for a home or pool. Here's the link.

 

[howdy!]

Thank everyone for your replies so far.

Yes, I'm sure some of these numbers are low. Still need to get more accurate ones this week.
As for the electrical comment about being way low, that is to run electrical from my panel to the equipment pad, around the pool and to outdoor living space. I will capture the cost for the power center and automation in "pool equipment"

 

[setsailsoon]

Maybe better next step would be to check on Owner Build permit. I'm pretty sure you can do it in Texas but would be good to see what you have to do to get the permit before you start with a design contractor. In Florida it seems to be different by county. Luckily I'm in one that permits OB.

Good luck and just ask for any additional info you may need. There are quite a few that have done this and I'm sure all will have info to offer.. And your DIY capability is a BIG plus.

Chris

 

[Cknitts]

I’m almost done with my build and if I could do it all over I would owner build, GC myself. My PB is terrible with communication, scheduling subs has sucked, and my project manager has been out to our site maybe 6 times and never present when the work is actually getting done. And this is one of the largest pool building franchises in the country.

You can check out resources like howtobuildyourownpool.com
This site is area specific, but there might be something similar in your area.

 

[Foxer]

I've been going down this path for a while, and am just finally getting started on the build, but have been gathering quotes, working on permits/engineering for a while. I'm similar - I do a lot of DIY and consider myself fairly handy. For me it's worth the savings, which is probably $50k+.

I've been keeping track and updating a spreadsheet with all my costs. Some areas are more than I expected, and my cost has grown about 15% since my rough estimate (aka swag). Anyway, here's how my stuff is breaking down so far - don't know if it's high or low honestly, but it's so hard to get people I often only have a single person responding.

Excavation - $9-12k
Rebar - $7500 for labor, $4500 materials
Plumbing - ~$4k, I'll be doing the labor
Gunite - still working on quotes, but $15k seems about right
Plaster - $12k
Coping - $4500 - materials only. I'll do labor for this
Tile - $2k or so. I'm planning on doing this as well, but that may change.
Equipment - $15k
Decking - I've got a large deck I'll be putting in at close to 2000 sq/ft. Pavers will be about $8.50 sq/ft, plus some retaining walls. All in that'll be roughly $28k. I'll be doing labor on this.
Permitting for town - $750
Engineering plan was $400

I've also budgeted for:
Speakers - $1500
Gas line - $1200
Additional Grading - $2000
Pergola - $4500
Lighting - $1500
Fire Pit - $1100

 

[setsailsoon]

I've been going down this path for a while, and am just finally getting started on the build, but have been gathering quotes, working on permits/engineering for a while. I'm similar - I do a lot of DIY and consider myself fairly handy. For me it's worth the savings, which is probably $50k+.

I've been keeping track and updating a spreadsheet with all my costs. Some areas are more than I expected, and my cost has grown about 15% since my rough estimate (aka swag). Anyway, here's how my stuff is breaking down so far - don't know if it's high or low honestly, but it's so hard to get people I often only have a single person responding.

Excavation - $9-12k
Rebar - $7500 for labor, $4500 materials
Plumbing - ~$4k, I'll be doing the labor
Gunite - still working on quotes, but $15k seems about right
Plaster - $12k
Coping - $4500 - materials only. I'll do labor for this
Tile - $2k or so. I'm planning on doing this as well, but that may change.
Equipment - $15k
Decking - I've got a large deck I'll be putting in at close to 2000 sq/ft. Pavers will be about $8.50 sq/ft, plus some retaining walls. All in that'll be roughly $28k. I'll be doing labor on this.
Permitting for town - $750
Engineering plan was $400

I've also budgeted for:
Speakers - $1500
Gas line - $1200
Additional Grading - $2000
Pergola - $4500
Lighting - $1500
Fire Pit - $1100

Great information, what size pool and does your engineering plan include stamped structural drawings? I priced 3 pool design companies and cheapest was $1000 for a very simple pool.

Thanks.

Chris

 

[Foxer]

It's a bigger pool at 22 x 46, and the costs reflect that for sure. Meant to mention that

Yes, it was a stamped engineering plan. My city requires that (assuming most do??). That was only the engineering plan though, not any design work. I did that part myself too.

 

[howdy!]

Thanks for all that info. Got some more numbers to crunch. Worse case, I would like to know these dollar amounts so I can at least have a conversation with my PB about it and make it known that I’m considering it. Might make them get a sharper pencil if they are wanting the business!

 

[Nikilyn]

We’ve done o/b twice and wouldn’t do it any other way. We ended up saving about $17,000. We got a quote for our entire build plus our friend designs pools and estimated about the same as the quote. Plus, we upgraded some things from our initial plan so that’s more savings. I don’t think it was a headache, at least not anymore than with a pool builder. At least I had the feel of control over it and didn’t have to deal with a middle man. If you are used to doing projects on your own then you’ll be able to do this.

 

[DreaSlown]

H,

I'm in the process of building a house and pool in S. Florida. Here's what I've found so far:

Yes PB will mark up 25-35% and most are on the high end since demand has gone crazy since covid started and supply chain plus labor shortage have dramatically reduced the number they can build per year. So they have to add margin to avoid a big pay cut. But do remember a good builder earns every bit of his keep. There's a lot of hard work plus many interfaces to manage and it takes a LOT of time. If you're doing this first time you'll learn a lot about it the hard way and it will increase your costs. That said you can save at least 20% from my experience so far... much more in some cases. You'll also have to negotiate intensely. PB's have supplier networks and volume discounts that you may be able to get but it's HARD. You'll give up some of that "PB margin" here.

First thing you'll want to do is develop a scope of work so you have some measurements to go by. It's impossible to verify your numbers without some idea of size even for a factored estimate but I think many are way low. For example the electrical cost of $3000 is way low. A power center, and automation materials will cost more that $2500. Double that for installed cost. That's not including anything else like pump, filter, heater, lighting, bond grid wire and installation. You'll also need to wire the sub panel and hopefully you can do that from your main breaker. Also, you'll need at least a structural design stamped by a License PE. This will cost about $2000. Not saying this to scare you off from OB. Just trying to help you be realistic from the start. Here's a few real numbers from my pool so far that may be helpful:

• My pool is about 24,000 gal and PB cost would be about $110,000 post-covid cost
• My cost if I OB is about $75,000. This cost is pretty good since I know a lot of the quantities and it's not just factored. It's also based on current market conditions in my area.
• There is a large difference between a basic pool and high end (mine is mid to high-end).
• A full screened in enclosure is about $30,000 today and was $15,000 7 years ago.
• Here's an example of what you're up against with covid and supply chain. Titan Concrete is one of the largest concrete suppliers in the country. I called them early December to get price and delivery for my slab pour. Their response was "we're not taking anymore orders for concrete on east cost of Florida until further notice". A year before Covid they would fight to be first in line for my order.

I would contract a pool designer asap. They will help you get started and develop a preliminary design that can be used to get realistic estimates. You can also evaluate costs of upgrades to make solid cost benefit decisions that work for you. Preliminary design will cost $400 to $800 and so long as you build the pool it will all be needed anyway. If you decide not to build at least you're not throwing away much $.

Once you get happy with the preliminary design, lock in your scope and complete the design for another $1000 to $1500 and start your permitting, start bidding, build a schedule, and a cash flow curve so you'll have a real good idea of how much you'll need when. You may also need a soil boring before detailed design. This should cost well under $1000 and some will say it's not needed. I've done enough construction to learn it's always needed. If you have hard-money bids you will only need about 15% contingency so long as you can "freeze the scope". Freeze means "if it works and is safe-no changes". If you make changes you'll find out the hard way why late changes cost so much using a PB.

Lastly, keep in mind a lot of the benefit of an OB is dependent on you. You'll have some capabilities you can lever to benefit yourself. We have threads here by people that did their own excavation. I don't have near that level of skill. I have managed a LOT of complex construction project so I plan to lever that to maximize value. But I'll just have to miss out on the excavation contractor's margin and other sub's.

I hope this helps and good luck with your pool.

Chris

PS don't under-estimate the importance of a schedule. Make a list of activities and how long each will take. Then determine which are required to start before something else so you can figure out the total time. These days delivery times are crazy so you (or your sub) will have to order almost everything up front. Sub-contractors waiting on materials can be very, very expensive. Microsoft Project is excellent but pretty expensive. I'm using an open-source program called Project Libre. It's a little clunky but works plenty well for a home or pool. Here's the link.

Hi Chris,
I'm in Jensen Beach trying to finish my owner build. You gave a lot of great information. We are seeing a lot of COVID delays and problems as well. Do you happen to have a go-to construction person? We are looking to have a pavilion type structure built over a summer kitchen and are having a lot of difficulty finding someone. Plus an engineer to draw it. Nobody seems to be taking on new work.

 

[setsailsoon]

Hi Chris,
I'm in Jensen Beach trying to finish my owner build. You gave a lot of great information. We are seeing a lot of COVID delays and problems as well. Do you happen to have a go-to construction person? We are looking to have a pavilion type structure built over a summer kitchen and are having a lot of difficulty finding someone. Plus an engineer to draw it. Nobody seems to be taking on new work.

May be too small of a job for the people I'm talking to right now for the house build like Mosley, and MGM. Maybe a screen enclosure company like Pioneer? I've done work with them and was very satisfied. If they don't do it I'd ask Craig at Pioneer who can. I bet he would know. Make sure you call the one in Stuart. They have a sister company in Port St Lucie that may be fine as well but I've never used them.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[Zmann]

I am a dual Licensed GC an AZ I also live in an area you can BYOP and not have any license as long as you have engineered plans
I made the Huge mistake of opting for a pool builder to build mine and a huge markup ( 90,000.00 pool no spa no decking no cabana
here I sit a year later with rebar rusting through the thin shotcrete for the second time and their fix will be cutting it out and patching it
I still do not have interior finish ( I guess thats a good thing ) and I can stick a magnet to the side of my pool in places ,, so my advice is BYOP
and don't pay markups for shoddy work, save that money and pay more for better subs and better results

 

[evamor]

I'm a commercial GC in DFW and would recommend doing it yourself if you are capable. The pool builders in DFW that ive come across are an embarrassment to the construction trade. I'm GC'ing my own pool reno right now and while it is a reno not a new build its not difficult, the hardest part was finding and vetting sub's which I spent months doing. Just make sure you get solid plans and MEP engineers for the design.