Why should I transition to salt?

[NicoleIvy2004]

Good morning! So, my pool is currently under renovation. New deck, coping, water tile, and pebble finish. My pool was originally built in 1991 and the same company is still in business, so I hired them because that pool had not been refinished since. That's a very long time for a pool to last so I was impressed. We have lived in the house since 2021.

Anyway, during planning/estimates, I asked the owner if we should go ahead and upgrade the pool equipment (pump, etc) itself while doing all this work anyway. He said not to spend the money and just wait for it to Crud out before switching any equipment. So I am. But I know my luck...the equipment will decide to die within a few weeks of renovation completion. Here's my question:

I'm currently using liquid chlorine. Should I switch to salt? I know they're both "the same." I don't need a refresher on the nuances of word definitions. But I have heard from a few people that the salt cell itself tends to only last 2-4 years.

We're in central Florida. I'm not sold on switching if this thing only lasts a few years and costs as much as it does. What is the actual benefit? People love to tell me the benefit is silkier water or whatever....easier on the skin. But my pool isn't the YMCA. I'm not dumping more liquid chlorine than needed and have never felt irritated skin or eyes or even smell.

When my equipment dies, I want something that will last as long as possible. I know lots of things are not made to last anymore. But at least last more than 2-4 years! Is there some other benefit I'm missing?

I simply want the pool to work. I want quality equipment, but not gimmicks. Thanks!

 

[Bperry]

Good morning! So, my pool is currently under renovation. New deck, coping, water tile, and pebble finish. My pool was originally built in 1991 and the same company is still in business, so I hired them because that pool had not been refinished since. That's a very long time for a pool to last so I was impressed. We have lived in the house since 2021.

Anyway, during planning/estimates, I asked the owner if we should go ahead and upgrade the pool equipment (pump, etc) itself while doing all this work anyway. He said not to spend the money and just wait for it to Crud out before switching any equipment. So I am. But I know my luck...the equipment will decide to die within a few weeks of renovation completion. Here's my question:

I'm currently using liquid chlorine. Should I switch to salt? I know they're both "the same." I don't need a refresher on the nuances of word definitions. But I have heard from a few people that the salt cell itself tends to only last 2-4 years.

We're in central Florida. I'm not sold on switching if this thing only lasts a few years and costs as much as it does. What is the actual benefit? People love to tell me the benefit is silkier water or whatever....easier on the skin. But my pool isn't the YMCA. I'm not dumping more liquid chlorine than needed and have never felt irritated skin or eyes or even smell.

When my equipment dies, I want something that will last as long as possible. I know lots of things are not made to last anymore. But at least last more than 2-4 years! Is there some other benefit I'm missing?

I simply want the pool to work. I want quality equipment, but not gimmicks. Thanks!

Salt system is cheaper and less hassle in the long run. I dont notice any silky water feeling so cant comment on that. My cell is on its 4th year now and no signs of failing. TFP recommends finding a cell thats rated for 2x your pool volume.

 

[newdude]

But I have heard from a few people that the salt cell itself tends to only last 2-4 years.

Builders tend to not understand the system and size them per the industry standards of 24/7 operation. A 1X unit with a looooong season will reach end of life quickly, while a 3X or 4X lives that much longer. And it saves pump runtime electricity needing to be run proportionately less.

The upgrade costs are a fraction of the lifespan gained. For a 20k to 60k upgrade its about 20% more to 40k, then another 20% more to 60k. (44% compounded for 300% more life). It's literally buying three 20k units for 44% more. Prices fluctuate a little for all cells, of course, but it's usually somewhere near there.

Your FC loss is more than mine, and for considerably longer too. Your pool will use proportionately more cell life or an equal amount of more liquid chlorine than my pool either way. So my 7 year cell to your 4 year cell doesn't tell the proper story.

 

[trivetman]

If you’re happy with using liquid, theres no need to switch.

i used to use probably 60-70 gallons of liquid over a summer. At pre-2020 prices liquid made sense. In 2020 when the price tripled if I could even find liquid, the swg started to look a lot more affordable even at the inflated prices for the equipment so I switched over.

And I don’t at all miss hauling the cases of liquid.

 

[newdude]

And I don’t at all miss hauling the cases of liquid.

That convienence simply cannot be overstated. Most of the specific comparisons I do for folks have their SWG of choice producing 1000+ jugs worth of FC.

*not* lugging 1000+ jugs is an intangible that nobody understands until the first week or two.

*not* dosing 1000+ jugs hits on day 3 like a freight train.

It goes from 'yeah yeah this is nice' to to in a flash.

 

[sande005]

More learned members can detail the cost comparisons (there have actual been some recent very detailed threads about that), but it does end up with SWCG's being less expensive in the long run.

Consider there is the trip to the store, the selecting and paying, the appropriate vehicle for hauling, the trip back, the carting and lugging the case(s), the storage needs, the daily dosing. Miss a couple of days, and then it all explodes on you as you have to fight the algae bloom. With a SWCG all that is gone. Once dialed in, testing once or twice a week to check for seasonal adjusting. Add acid once a week. Take a trip away for a few days, and no one needs to be found to babysit.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Nikki,

As has been said.. If you are happy jug lugging Liquid Chlorine, then why change???

Most salt cell last 5 to 7 years... (I've gone through 3 cells, in 3 pools, and they all lasted 7 years or more..)

But,, for fun let's just say 4 years..

How much Liquid Chlorine do you use in 4 years and what does it cost?

With a salt cell you are just buying your chlorine all at once..

Compare the cost of Liquid Chlorine vs. the cell and use whatever is the cheapest.

Keep in mind the initial cost of a salt system includes the power center for the cell. When the cell runs out of chlorine, you just buy the cell, not the whole system.

Use whatever works best for you.

For me, I'd rather fill in my 3 pools if they could not be saltwater pools...

Thanks,

Jim R

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

Builders tend to not understand the system and size them per the industry standards of 24/7 operation. A 1X unit with a looooong season will reach end of life quickly, while a 3X or 4X lives that much longer. And it saves pump runtime electricity needing to be run proportionately less.

The upgrade costs are a fraction of the lifespan gained. For a 20k to 60k upgrade its about 20% more to 40k, then another 20% more to 60k. (44% compounded for 300% more life). It's literally buying three 20k units for 44% more. Prices fluctuate a little for all cells, of course, but it's usually somewhere near there.

Your FC loss is more than mine, and for considerably longer too. Your pool will use proportionately more cell life or an equal amount of more liquid chlorine than my pool either way. So my 7 year cell to your 4 year cell doesn't tell the proper story.

Forgive my ignorance. Could you clarify a couple things to be sure I'm tracking what you said? When you talk about 1X, 3X, and 4X...is that like what Bperry was saying about TFP suggesting a cell that is 2X the pool volume?

Also, what is this about 20K-60K upgrade is about 20% more to 40K? What are these numbers representing? I hope not money. I wouldn't be spending anywhere near $20K on the pool equipment on the side of my house, right? The pool reno I described is $34K.

And I get that usage changes life expectancy. But I'm looking through a simple lens of not wanting to pay for a salt cell every few years. Maybe I'm starting to age, but when I purchase important appliances (I'd put pool equipment and salt cells in that category), I expect them to last longer than 4 years, and especially more than 2.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

Most salt cell last 5 to 7 years... (I've gone through 3 cells, in 3 pools, and they all lasted 7 years or more..)


How much Liquid Chlorine do you use in 4 years and what does it cost?

With a salt cell you are just buying your chlorine all at once..

Compare the cost of Liquid Chlorine vs. the cell and use whatever is the cheapest.

Keep in mind the initial cost of a salt system includes the power center for the cell. When the cell runs out of chlorine, you just buy the cell, not the whole system.

Thanks for your thoughts! I haven't been annoyed by dumping liquid chlorine weekly. I get the yellow jugs from Pinch A Penny and one jug typically lasts 1-2 weeks depending on the time of year. I get every 10th jug free, and I believe last I checked, each jug is about $8 and change.

Could you clarify something? You said when the cell runs out of chlorine, you just buy the cell, not the whole system. Why can't I just add more chlorine/salt to the cell? I thought the cell was a component...a part of the system. And people are telling me down here in FL that their salt cells don't last past 4 years. They never worded it the way you did. So now I'm confused lol

 

[Jimrahbe]

but when I purchase important appliances (I'd put pool equipment and salt cells in that category), I expect them to last longer than 4 years, and especially more than 2.

Nicole,

So, do you get mad when your bottle of Liquid Chlorine is empty? Do you see this as a great conspiracy? Of course not, you expect to use it up..

A salt cell is exactly the same.. It is a consumable and you should expect it to be used up over time.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Donldson]

And people are telling me down here in FL that their salt cells don't last past 4 years.

Roughly how many of them follow TFPC?

 

[newdude]

When you talk about 1X, 3X, and 4X...is that like what Bperry was saying about TFP suggesting a cell that is 2X the pool volume?

Yes. For your 15k pool, most builders install a 15k (ish) unit, which is sized for 24/7 operation and works, but with a finite lifespan, dies sooner than a double, triple, etc sized unit.

Also, what is this about 20K-60K upgrade is about 20% more to 40K? What are these numbers representing? I hope not money.

20k gallon unit upsizing to a 40k gallon unit. let's say a 20k unit is $1200 and a 40k unit is $1450. Buying 2 consecutive 20k units is $2400, but a 40k unit with the same lifespan (two 20k units) is $1450. The return on investment is big time in your favor to buy the larger unit.

But I'm looking through a simple lens of not wanting to pay for a salt cell every few years.

Again, where a larger unit lasts longer. But even with a smaller unit, it still costs less than the extra liquid chlorine you need (versus what I need up north with short seasons).

You said when the cell runs out of chlorine, you just buy the cell, not the whole system. Why can't I just add more chlorine/salt to the cell?

The initial setup includes a controller and a cell and there are install costs. Once you have it installed, you just replace the SWG cell when it dies. Kinda like filling up the gas tank on your car. You don't need a new car, just more gas in it.

Replacement cells are a 10 minute swap that's about the easiest DIY thing you can do. The unions twist off and the new ones on, and the plug gets unplugged / plugged.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

Nicole,

So, do you get mad when your bottle of Liquid Chlorine is empty? Do you see this as a great conspiracy? Of course not, you expect to use it up..

A salt cell is exactly the same.. It is a consumable and you should expect it to be used up over time.

Thanks,

Jim R.

It sounds like I'm confused on what a salt cell is. When people told me about their salt cell lasting 2-4 years, I assumed that meant the salt cell is a piece of equipment and its life cycle ended that soon.

But now it's sounding like it's the mental equivelent to a jug of chlorine---just a holder....a container.

So these people are actually telling me that they only need to add salt/chlorine every 2-4 years? It's not that it's a part that is poor quality and not lasting....it's that it comes prefilled with 2-4 years worth of salt/chlorine?

That doesn't sound correct either as people tell me that they're buying bags of salt.... so is the salt cell equipment or is it a "jug"?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Nicole,

The cell is an actual piece of equipment, but is designed to be used up over time, and then replaced.

The cell does not contain any actual chlorine, I was just using that as an example of how it works..

A salt cell just uses the slightly salty pool water and electricity to make Chlorine gas.. In the process, the material inside the cell gets consumed and there is no way to replace it.

If you are happy using Liquid Chlorine, then there is just no reason for you to change.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

I spend roughly $500/year in liquid chlorine. This does not include acid. I did the math wrong the first time I posted this, so I edited the number if you saw it earlier.

A salt cell looks to cost on average around $600. (do you guys agree with that?)
A bag of salt costs around $12 from a quick search. I don't know how long I can expect that to last me since I have no concept of amount of salt to use vs liquid chlorine.

If a $600 salt cell lasts 4 years, that is $150/year. I'd just need to determine the yearly cost of salt bags for my 15,000gal pool. If I get a good cell, that is sized properly, I understand some are saying it can and should last longer.

I don't particularly care if I switch or not. My goal is cost and hassle. It was sounding like these salt cells could be a hassle, but it's sounding like you guys are saying that my friends likely have salt cells that are too small for their pools and for the extra usage of being in a hot climate.

Am I tracking so far? lol

 

[Bperry]

It sounds like I'm confused on what a salt cell is. When people told me about their salt cell lasting 2-4 years, I assumed that meant the salt cell is a piece of equipment and its life cycle ended that soon.

But now it's sounding like it's the mental equivelent to a jug of chlorine---just a holder....a container.

So these people are actually telling me that they only need to add salt/chlorine every 2-4 years? It's not that it's a part that is poor quality and not lasting....it's that it comes prefilled with 2-4 years worth of salt/chlorine?

That doesn't sound correct either as people tell me that they're buying bags of salt.... so is the salt cell equipment or is it a "jug"?

The “cell” is an electronic device that splits up the Na and the Cl from the NaCl (salt) in the water. Once the free Cl floats around in the water a bit doing its sanitizing, it finds a free Na to attach to and becomes salt again. So you just add salt at the beginning and it stays in the water forever (or maybe in florida with rain you have to add some once in a while).

After 5-7 years the metal coatings in the salt cell eventually wear out and arent able to split the Na and Cl into their parts anymore and so that part needs to be replaced.

 

[Bperry]

The salt cell manufacturers rate the lifespan of the cell at how much chlorine it can produce when its running at 100% output 24x7 and use that to estimate a pool size it can support over their warranty period.

People that buy a cell rated exactly for their pool size then need to run the cell at 100% output to get the amount of chlorine they need. When you factor in the cost of a 15k rated model with a 30k rated model, the 30k model is often just a little more expensive so its not wise to buy the smaller one. All of the cells are rated in “hours” of run time. Running a larger cell for fewer hours means the cell will wear out slower and need replacing less often. 100% larger cell lasts twice as long.

 

[NicoleIvy2004]

@Bperry Thank you! You explain things well. I appreciate it!

I'll continue to read up on this type of system. With my luck, I'll need to make an informed decision within weeks of my pool reno being completed.

 

[Bperry]

@Bperry Thank you! You explain things well. I appreciate it!

I'll continue to read up on this type of system. With my luck, I'll need to make an informed decision within weeks of my pool reno being completed.

Lots of people out there believe a salt generator just turns your pool into ocean water and doesnt use chlorine anymore. Thats a misunderstanding that makes some pool builders push people away from the systems for fear of salt corrosion. But the amount of salt in the pool is a small fraction of that in the ocean and many people find that their chlorine pool already has enough salt in it from years of adding acid and chlorine so they dont need much (if any) salt added to convert.

The “sodium” hypochlorite in the chlorine jugs add a little salt.

 

[SJPoe]

But now it's sounding like it's the mental equivelent to a jug of chlorine---just a holder....a container.

So these people are actually telling me that they only need to add salt/chlorine every 2-4 years? It's not that it's a part that is poor quality and not lasting....it's that it comes prefilled with 2-4 years worth of salt/chlorine?

Essentially, yes.

The salt in the pool is never really used up - the Chlorine is broken out of the salt (sodium chloride) and then eventually recombines in the pool returning back to salt.
I'm not a chemist, its a bit magic really, but that's basically the way it works

The Salt Cell of the SWG has some fancy materials that allow for that Chlorine to be broken out of the salty water by the electricity.
Over time, those fancy materials erode/corrode/wear out, and the cell loses effectiveness.
The cells are rated in # hours @ 100% power - so you could think of it as basically a big jug of chlorine...it's just the chlorine is really stored in the pool in the form of salt, and you 'activate' it by electricity.
You may need to top up the salt occasionally (like maybe a bag or two once a year to account for rain dilution etc) - but salt is about $6 for a 40lb bag.

If you are spending $500 a year in LC, an SWG WILL be cheaper just about any way you slice it.

Here's a quick post-it-note calculation assuming you use $500 of LC a year.

I'm going to figure 100 gallons of 12.5% - that's about 833ppm over the year, or 2.5ppm/day
Assuming you went with the Circupool RJ-45+

$1200 initial outlay
15000 hour life @ roughly 4hours /day required to produce 2.5ppm = 3750 days, or 10 year life
Replacement Cell is $694 - so cost per PPM of Chlorine is essentially $0.07 - versus 12.5% at $5/gallon = $0.60
(I'm sure @Newdude will check my numbers!!)

So your initial investment would be paid off in basically 2.5 seasons - your cost would then essentially drop to about $70/year (not counting electricity which is fairly minimal)
And, you've just future-proofed your chlorine cost - if chlorine goes to $10/gallon...who cares?