New to pools entirely

[DWAZ]

I’m new to pools, and this pool is new to me but about 30 years old. I’m hoping the collective knowledge here can help with a few questions. Thanks in advance for your help!


How difficult an install would a salt water generator be with this pump/filter configuration? Is it realistic to fit without significant replumbing?

How do I evaluate the condition of the pool surface? Note the chip and white spots. I assume the surface may be a few decades old at this point.

How can I mitigate the black grass/weed encroachment just above the tiles? I’m concerned there may be a leak in some of the pool plumbing to enable this kind of growth.

Should I be concerned that the pool water supply shut off valve is PVC plumbed above ground as pictured? Minimal sun exposure but it’s Phoenix so very hot ambient many months of the year.

TF-PRO SALT test kit results below, is there any hope to salvage the remaining water? I’ve added about a gallon of bleach and half gallon of muriatic acid to start. I assume the CYA may require a partial drain at least.



FC: 1ppm

CC: 0.5ppm

pH: 8.2

CH: 550ppm

TA: 280

CYA: >100

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Not too difficult to vertically mount a SWG after the filter output.

Knife valve shutoff look fine to me.

A drain Is probably in your future to lower your CYA and CH.

Retest your CYA doing the following…

For CYA > 90ppm, repeat the test adjusting the procedure as follows:

1. Fill the mixing bottle to the lower mark (15 ml line) with pool water.
2. Continue filling the mixing bottle to the upper mark (30 ml line) with tap water.
3. Shake briefly to mix.
4. Pour off half of the contents of the mixing bottle, so it is again filled to the lower mark (15 ml line).
5. Continue the test normally from adding R-0013, but multiply the final result by two.

If you need to dilute the pool water further then apply these ratios:

Pool water	Tap or distilled water	Multiply result by
1	1	2
1	2	3

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! A few additional key points:
1- Now is the time of year in your area to do a water exchange. That is the only way to lower the CH and CYA.
2 - Stay on that pH with muriatic acid. Keep it no higher than 7.8 as much as possible to prevent scale.
3 - Lowering the TA down to about 60 should help significantly if you find the pH rising quickly. So when you do lower the pH, use enough acid to lower the pH down to about 7.0-7.2. Each time you do that it will pull the TA down a little.
4 - Be sure to watch the FC. Refer to our FC/CYA Levels to see how to prevent algae.
5 - If you find the FC not holding, you may already have excessive organics/algae growing.

Before wasting more chlorine (chlorine to eradicate organics) (acid to lower the pH/TA), consider the water exchange first.

Be sure to bookmark our Pool Care Basics page for lots of great info.

 

[HermanTX]

How difficult an install would a salt water generator be with this pump/filter configuration? Is it realistic to fit without significant replumbing?

After filter. See photo. What are the 2 pipes going into the ground? Are both returns to the pool?

How do I evaluate the condition of the pool surface? Note the chip and white spots. I assume the surface may be a few decades old at this point.

If the chip areas are soft then your plaster is failing Best that you have a pool service company evaluate. If you replaster, ensure that they chip out all plaster and not just the bad spots.

How can I mitigate the black grass/weed encroachment just above the tiles? I’m concerned there may be a leak in some of the pool plumbing to enable this kind of growth.

This is hard so see. Probably not a leak but your grout has fallen out over time and allowed weeds to grow. Again a pool service company can recommend how to repair.

Should I be concerned that the pool water supply shut off valve is PVC plumbed above ground as pictured? Minimal sun exposure but it’s Phoenix so very hot ambient many months of the year.

Suggest you purchase a sprinkler backflow preventer cover. It is normally used to protect exposed pipes from freezing but it can also prevent UV damage to your PVC. See below is example of one that can be purchased on Amazon. Be sure to measure the height and width of your exposed pipes to purchase the correct size.

Amazon.com

 

[Mdragger88]

Congrats on your new to you pool!
You’ve got some pro’s on the case! To help be sure you get the most accurate advice be sure to also fill out your signature in detail

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.google.com

 

[DWAZ]

Congrats on your new to you pool!
You’ve got some pro’s on the case! To help be sure you get the most accurate advice be sure to also fill out your signature in detail

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.google.com

Thanks for all the very helpful inputs already!

A quick update, apologies as I’m still learning how to quote in the forum. Sig should include equipment detail now.

With the dilution I was able to confirm CYA 200, so it indeed seems about time for a water exchange. Will need to rent pump over the weekend.

Good news is I was able to get the FC to 3 and pH down to 7.4 today (not enough to get TA inline but it’s a start). This gives me confidence I can control some of the chemistry here!

The suction side cleaner is broken, so while I’m debating robot I’ll vacuum by hand with a pole mounted unit.

I read a few threads on TFP about calcium buildup and removal, seems like no solution is very easy, but I’m going to give barkeeper’s friend and elbow grease a try.

We might run a season with the existing plaster and liquid chlorine (great value bleach) before migrating to new plaster and SWCG next season.

Kids are excited to swim when the temps warm in a few months!

Thanks all again for the help so far!

 

[Mdragger88]

When you do start shopping for a swcg be sure to get one rated for at least 2x’s your pool’s volume or larger - in sunny AZ with your long pool season the bigger the better really.
Until then look for a HASA dealer in your area for higher % bulk liquid chlorine in refillable containers. Usually much cheaper & fresher as well. No worries about extra stuff like fabric conditioners/polymers either.

Find Where You Can Buy HASA Products | HASA

Want to purchase HASA products for your pool or spa? Find out which of our partnered dealers sell HASA Sani-Clor®, Hasachlor®, Classic Bleach and Blue Whale Sanitizer.

hasa.com

 

[ajw22]

Since you have to do a major drain just focus on FC and pH until you get new water in. The other chemicals don’t matter now.

I am going to guess that your water will not pass the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test and after the water exchange you will need to do what should be a quick SLAM Process to get the water algae free.

You need to drain about 80% of your water to get a CYA of 40 for the SLAM Process

Read about the No Drain Water Exchange in Draining - Further Reading

 

[Newdude]

Will need to rent pump over the weekend.

$83 on amazon and it will empty your 10k gallons in a little over 2 hours if paired with a 1.5 inch hose. And you'll own it in case the need ever arises, inside or out.

liquid chlorine (great value bleach)

Until you find a wholesaler, look at the pool essentials chlorinating liquid at WM. It's 10% and usually a better deal. The upper left menu in poolmath has a bleach calculator so you can math the easy way.

 

[DWAZ]

You folks reply faster than I can act - thank you for the quality and fast help!



A few more questions with pictures:



Is replacing the filter with same model easy DIY job? It looks like it’s just screw off / screw on filter. Pool inspector said it’s done for, and I’m inclined to put my time into a new one vs cleaning/maintaining old one



There is a valve on the input of the filter. I turned it, heard a crack, and stopped. With that I look at the other yellowing PVC, after decades in the AZ sun, should I proactively replace above ground plumbing?





I got a hand vacuum, the “vacuum port” on the side didn’t seem to get much suction. I might try using the skimmer instead. Basic question - do I get one of the adapter plates off Amazon and put on top of the skimmer basket, or do I remove the skimmer basket to install?



Vacuum on side seems weak, should I get skimmer plate vacuum?



This pool doesn’t have a drain, so when it rains would most bucket the water out, or just wait for evaporation? Water is above the weir door so the skimmer is useless, but I can’t figure out any other harm from the higher water level.

 

[HermanTX]

Is replacing the filter with same model easy DIY job? It looks like it’s just screw off / screw on filter. Pool inspector said it’s done for, and I’m inclined to put my time into a new one vs cleaning/maintaining old one

The filter is attached to the PVC plumbing via unions. So when purchasing a new filter, verify that the distance between the line in (top pipe) and the line out (bottom pipe) is the same or you will need to cut PVC to make it all fit. Also, ensure the union threads are the same.
It would also be easier enough to rebuild the PVC from the pump to the filter.

There is a valve on the input of the filter. I turned it, heard a crack, and stopped. With that I look at the other yellowing PVC, after decades in the AZ sun, should I proactively replace above ground plumbing?

Not sure I understand the “valve”. I only see standard PVC from the pump to the filter. That is the input to the filter. Are you referring to the BLACK union that cracked? Remember that the filter is full of water. So if you plan to turn the union connection, open the air relief at the top and the drain at the bottom of the filter to drain all the water before trying to disconnect the line in or the line out

I got a hand vacuum, the “vacuum port” on the side didn’t seem to get much suction. I might try using the skimmer instead. Basic question - do I get one of the adapter plates off Amazon and put on top of the skimmer basket, or do I remove the skimmer basket to install?

There are 2 suction lines to your pump. The 3 way valve before the pump controls the flow from each. One is the suction for the cleaner and the other is suction from the skimmer. Turn the valve handle such that suction from skimmer is closed and suction from cleaner line is full open. This will provide maximum suction for the cleaner. You can also possibly attach a standard vacuum head to that vacuum hose to manually vacuum if the actual cleaner is broken.
Worst case, you have to vacuum from skimmer with hose either in the hole (basket removed) or using a hose plates to cover the skimmer.
In this case, you would rotate the 3-way valve in opposite direction to close the vacuum line and to fully open the skimmer line.
The picture in your original post showed the valve open to both skimmer and vacuum port so you are getting a suction from both at the same time which is not efficient.

This pool doesn’t have a drain, so when it rains would most bucket the water out, or just wait for evaporation? Water is above the weir door so the skimmer is useless, but I can’t figure out any other harm from the higher water level.

It would be best to purchase a submersible pump from HD or Amazon and use that to drain water.
If you replumb the line from the pump to the filter you can add a TEE with a valve to create a drain line but then you would need to purchase a flexible hose and run it to an area that can handle the pool water.

You show a picture of a ball valve that is on one of the 2 return lines to the pool. Do you know where that line goes? My assumption is that the larger OD line is the main pool return but the line with ball valve is reduced to a smaller pipe so not sure where that goes. Do you have a water feature? Is this the valve you referred to earlier that “cracked”? These ball valves are known to freeze up and the handle may have cracked If you tried to turn it.

 

[DWAZ]

Thank you. Something clicked for me with the setup finally: water comes from skimmer into pump then through the filter then back to the pool. Seems backwards to me, wouldn’t I want to put filter before pump to protect the pump from debris?

I’ll try turning the 3 way valve so only the vacuum line is running and see if that gets me better suction.

I was hoping to avoid getting a submersible pump, but between the looming water exchange and several decent rains per year, I may follow that link a few posts up.

The ball valve is for two aeration features, which I’m sure I’ll need to balance chemistry properly on occasion. If I’ve never worked PVC am I in for trouble trying to DIY replace that valve?

 

[Mdragger88]

Thank you. Something clicked for me with the setup finally: water comes from skimmer into pump then through the filter then back to the pool. Seems backwards to me, wouldn’t I want to put filter before pump to protect the pump from debris?

It is correct & how it’s supposed to be.
There should be a basket in the pump under that clear lid to prevent debris from getting stuck in the pump. Along with the skimmer basket stopping larger debris. If it were the other way around you’d be constantly cleaning your filter.

I was hoping to avoid getting a submersible pump, but between the looming water exchange and several decent rains per year, I may follow that link a few posts up.

You will need the submersible pump for water exchanges anyway - its an important piece of maintenance equipment for a pool owner especially if they have a cartridge filter with no drain to waste option.

The ball valve is for two aeration features, which I’m sure I’ll need to balance chemistry properly on occasion. If I’ve never worked PVC am I in for trouble trying to DIY replace that valve?

Those types of ball valves are notorious for short lives especially in high uv locations - most here prefer jandy never lube valves for longevity. I’ll let the other guys guide you on how to properly install one as I am not sure what sizes they are available in.

 

[proavia]

Look at Harbor Freight for a submersible pump. You will only need it for full water drain and maybe once or twice yearly (if that) for pumping excess water out. As long as the water level is below the bottom of the coping to pool joint, you can wait for water to evaporation. In Phoenix it's hardly efer necessary to pump water out after a rain event.

The small ball valve likely sends water to an aerator on the side of the pool above the water line. These are usually 3/4" cheap ball valves. They can be replaced/replumbed with a true union ball valve, such as this one:

Amazon.com

This allows the ball valve to be rebuilt or replaced in the future without any PVC work.
1 1/2" or larger pipes should use Jandy Never-Lube (or similar) valves.

If replacing the filter and/or pump, consider replacing the above ground piping. And then paint the pipes with spray paint to protect it from the sun. Also, building some type of sun shade structure over the entire equipment pad is a good idea to protect it all from the sun.

 

[Newdude]

Look at Harbor Freight for a submersible pump

This beast for $83 will do close to 5k gph with a 1.5 inch hose. It can be stepped down as well with a longer or smaller hose if need be.

 

[DWAZ]

I ordered the 1.6HP recommended submersible pump from Amazon, so water exchange shouldn’t be far away now. Thanks for the recommendation!

Turning the Jandy valve solved my suction issue - I was able to manually vacuum most of the dirt from the bottom!

I may end up rebuilding all of the plumbing on the pad once I replace filter, possibly add SWCG… will definitely use the union ball valve so I can more easily replace in the future.
Q: Any recommendation on type of spray paint to protect from UV, just any old paint from HD?

I’m getting the hang of pH and FC testing pretty quickly now with the TF-PRO SALT kit. The stirrer is really slick and kinda fun but for daily FC tests right now it’d be nice to have something as quick as the pH test.
Q: is there a quicker FC test solution I might add on that’s more of a “drop and shake” like the pH test?

On the pump basket, I checked the manual for my pool pump (I think it’s Hayward SP2300VSP) and couldn’t sort out how to remove the lid to clean out debris.
Q: is there a quick guide on the wiki here I haven’t been able to find?

 

[proavia]

Any old spray paint will work. I tend to use a tan color.

Use the FAS-DPD chlorine test. It takes less than 2 minutes and is accurate.

Cleaning pump basket

• Turn off the pump
• Rotate the lid counter-clockwise and remove
• Remove and clean basket
• Replace cleaned basket - be sure to align properly in pump housing
• Check to be sure pump mating surface and lid O-ring are clean and free of debris
• Lube O-ring with silicone based lube if necessary (MagicLube II)
• Replace lid and rotate clockwise until snug
• Start pump and bleed air from filter as necessary

 

[JamesW]

This beast for $83 will do close to 5k gph with a 1.5 inch hose. It can be stepped down as well with a longer or smaller hose if need be.

This shows a UL registration, but the company does not seem to show on the UL search page.

Search for lanchez on Product iQ | UL Solutions

productiq.ulprospector.com

Detailed Seller Information

Business Name: Ningbo Lanchez E-commerce Co., Ltd

Business Address:

万众村. 宁波海曙区. 集士港. 315171. CN

Wanzhongcun. Ningbo Haishu District. jishigang.

The product review is obviously just produced by the company and it is not a genuine review.

 

[HermanTX]

On the pump basket, I checked the manual for my pool pump (I think it’s Hayward SP2300VSP) and couldn’t sort out how to remove the lid to clean out debris.
Q: is there a quick guide on the wiki here I haven’t been able to find?

Take the palm of your hand and push on the right “wing” of the pump top to rotate it counterclockwise. It should go a quarter turn or so and then lift off. remove the basket, empty it and replace. Ensure there is no debris on the seal or lip. Lube the seal if needed.
Place the lid back on pump and using palm of your hand, bump the top clockwise to seal.
You should check your pump basket every couple of days to ensure it is clear of debris.

 

[DWAZ]

Thanks all for the continued help. Pool chemistry (just pH and FC balancing) is going well with muriatic acid and LC… not too difficult at this stage!

I ended up ordering a smaller pump from HD for easier returns, arrives Monday. Fortunately the pool level is still too high even after a long while without rain, so I don’t think I am dealing with any pool leaks!

The acrylic pool decking is in rough shape, and I’m considering overlaying with travertine stone, and replacing the blue waterline tiles. When I do that I may also resurface the plaster (full chip out). If I contract two companies, one for the travertine, one for the waterline tile + plaster, which would you recommend first in the build process?

I’m also a bit lost on rebuilding the pool vacuum. I have opened it up and turning the main “paddle”, which I assume the vacuum pressure is intended to do, moves the gears which moves the wheels. So it seems to be working, but when it’s connected to the vacuum port it sits on the bottom without moving, even when I direct the suction 100% to the vacuum port with the Jandy valve and run the pump at 3000rpm. Any suggestions?