12 May 2024 Equipment and Controls While Thin Set Dries

JoyfulNoise said:

Not sure I understand the purpose of the fuse on the secondary side of the transformer … what are you trying to protect?

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Belt + suspenders conservative when I sketch out... not needed. Thanks.

Katodude said:

Just a note. The relays on the hat are fine for running the actuators directly.

The picture of the relay you have in your post is what I use for high voltage. Ie supplying power to the heater and SWG. I use the relays on the hat to fire the high voltage relays. So I only have two of those, 1 for heater power, and 1 for SWG power. Everything else is wired directly off the hat.

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Oh nice! That simplifies this a LOT, I didn't realize the relays are good to 4 amps. I believe normal operation for the actuators is .75 so even 2-3 factor for stuck valve these work great! I've got quite a few spares now!

Chris

As I start to wire this up I left the power connector on the RPi stack closest to the rail since I thought I'd need to access the other plug in terminals more often. Might actually be better for me to mount flat against the rails so I have access to all 4 sides with all those edge connectors. Cabinet is way bigger than I needed so there's plenty of real estate available.

Here's how I plan to distribute power in the box. Distribution terminals at very bottom for each voltage level. Right now all I have in is 24vac, will have 12 v for the 3 separate LED banks in an additional terminal bank at the bottom. They will supply to the relay board for 3 separate relays... if I run out of relays I'll gang them all together for initial operation. For HV start devices I think I'll run the coil signal out from this box to the HV box mounted to the left and install relays there. Only things I can think of that need this is the air blower, heater, and swg at the moment. Main pool pump and filter pump will be supplied direct from the breaker box.

Comments?

Chris

Ok @Jimrahbe, this one's for you and Robin. Does look better with a matching set of Pentair Pumps!

Katodude said:

Sounds like a plan. You might just want to go ahead and order another 8 relay board.

The only thing that concerns me a little bit is can we cycle the relays fast enough to change the light colors.

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Thanks, just did that. Inflation is hitting sequent... relay bds used to be $45, now $70 but I got them from robotshop.com for the old price! If you think you'll need more for your other automation projects you may want to get it now.

Chris

01 May 2024 Update: Schedule update - the final month?

I thought about calling this update "life happens". Our original plan for this project was to be starting up the pool first week of April LAST YEAR! But that all went out the window with covid that delayed the house over a year. Then life happening with my wife's back problems ended up with unplanned surgery for her and it didn't work too well. So initial plan for this pool project was to restart this year and finish first week of April. Permit was approved in late Dec 2023. Well then we found out my wife has an eye condition that requires a shot every month for at least 3 months in Houston starting right at the beginning of this job. We barely got forming done when we had to make the first trip. These trips took a month plus we incurred a week's delay for contractor sick and weather. Not complaining at all, we're lucky and thankful they can avoid huge sight impairment risks with a few of these shots. The reason I mention all this is the importance of contingency in planning schedules and cost estimates. It's for known unknowns. We know things will happen, they always do we just don't know where they will crop up. Contingency is not fat. It's time and/or cost that will happen. If it doesn't we're just lucky. You could argue these events are more "Black Swan" events rather than traditional contingency. But almost every time real contingency does really happen so plan on it!

For now we're well down the job and just trying to finish up the last few steps:

Critical Path (any delays cause day for day delay to the whole project) is the following activities

• Tile install
• Preliminary grading
• Paver installation
• Final Electrical and Barrier Inspection
• Plaster
• Add water
• Final Inspection

Activities with float so they can be done in parallel with several CP activities:

• Equipment and controls installation
• Final plumbing
• Final electrical connection to equipment and bump tests
• Notarized contractor and license form
• Tie-in survey and elevation certificate
• Grading and landscaping

The critical path activities have a duration of about 2 weeks. So double this for weather, contractor, material delays. We plan to finish this month. The most important "pinch point" to me is to make sure we're ready to add water no more than 6 hrs after plaster is done. This is tough because it will take a day to get final electrical and the baby barrier in place. Here's the current status:

• All pool tile is onsite
• Pool has been cleaned/vacuumed ready for acid cleaning
• Automation/controls setup/testing is in progress -should complete this weekend
• Plaster sub is lined up for 2-day notice.
• Pavers will be delivered this week.
• Final equipment delivery is today (filter)
• Electrician was here to do a job site inspection. He's now on 3-day call-out notice

I thought it might be useful to post this for some insight into the OB role in scheduling.

Chris

01 May Update #2

Finally starting more work... tile guy showed up today but he was still pretty sick. I admire the commitment but sent him home at noon. Rest of his crew are very experienced and real experts so he was happy to let them finish leveling work. You may recall I was very concerned that the entire edge of the pool needs to be near perfect after the tile is set. The edge of the wall closest to the house is actually .5-.75" low compared to the opposite infinity edge. Down the length of the pool it's +/- 1/4". Even the inside to outside is actually way less than .5% so that's not bad either. To make the entire pool as level as possible they put a thin coat of bonding cement then mortar mix inside a small framed in edge. This surface is then tapered to the high side. This should result in final tile edge +/- 1/16". For critical measurements we use an old boat repair technique "measure 3 times before you cut a hole in the hull". This pool wont' work if the edge is off more than 1/16" so we used 3 completely different methods. I had my expensive zip level. The contractor also set up a water level and a string line. All measurements were virtually identical. Any final deviations will have to made up with water flow rate. And as @JamesW showed a while back it takes a lot of water flow to make up for 1/16"!

We also now have all equipment on site. The 425 sq ft cartridge filter weighs almost 100 # with the pallet. Dolly and young backs should be able to handle this one.

Chris

Question for our experts. In normal operation I will have the main pump circulating 24/7 from the basin. I will also have a separate pump for filtering running on a schedule that's just driven by keeping the pool clean... could only be needed a few hours per day based on my previous pool. I'm thinking it may be best to run this off the main drain so it's not increasing suction pressure drop from the basin which has a LOT of flow at max and it's the longest run of pipe. I'll have manual valves to be able to take suction from basin, spa, and/or main drain if needed for both pumps since all 3 are run independently back to the pad. Thoughts?

Chris

kul said:

I like the pavers in this photo. Are these the same ones you will use in the backyard?

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Thanks, we're very happy with them as well (lots of unsolicited comments). These don't come in the thinner version so we can't use them in the back. We have a 1000 sq ft patio that needs to be continuous with the pool pavers so we're using thinner rough finish marble since it fits the drop from the finished floor of the house to the patio elevation. It's leathered marble so not slippery and no glare. It will be 16"X24" and is the same color as the one on the left in photo below. Slight brown color is dirt we had just washed off.

03 May update: What's the difference between a mechanic and a machinist?

Folks,
Answer is precision. So we've been tweaking the top edge level and are on the final day of this. Still have a few places off by 3/8"... not sure how this happened but it did. Tube level and zip level show identical readings. Should have this fixed and final today. Maybe in time to start tile this afternoon... finally! I'll add photos of this precision operation later today. I knew this was going to be difficult and it's proving to be exactly that.

Chris

03 May 2024 update: More contingency

OK so we finally got on a roll... I think there was only 1 person in the crew that understood the level of precision I needed to achieve. He went right into action adjusting all the finish framing for my top edge. As he progressed the rest of the crew fell into an assembly line with two mini crews applying the bonding coat followed by the adjusting layer of mortar. They work best to loud central American music... you have to see this video to appreciate it. Once these guys get going they make a lot of progress and the work is incredibly precise. They almost finished the entire pool edge inside and out. And every spot I checked was within 1/8". We can adjust this down to 1/16" with the final tile set. The entire perimeter is about 140' with 12" inside the gutter and 6" outside the gutter so that's a lot of area to get this close. The way this pool is going to work is that at normal operation water will flow over the entire pool right up to the edge. At ~150 gpm we'll have barely a trickle flowing. When we want to go into infinity mode I'll close off the valves at each end of the gutter so the gutter will fill up and force all the flow over the infinity wall. This should be 3/16-5/16" depending on the pump rate. What keeps water from spilling all over the deck? The outer 6" of tile is sloped up high enough to keep the water in the pool. Most of the time the gutters will be open when people are in the pool though.

Chris




Starting to layout final set of the tiles



Final set of the infinity wall

05 May Update - More progress, still a lot left to finish tile

Got most of the beam level prep done yesterday and actually got about half of the edge tile done. This is taking longer than I thought it would but it's also very important to get it right. Based on progress so far I'd now say we have 5 working days left if the sub can field two mini-crews for that time. In the current market for good craft that's a big question mark. We had two crews but I'm pretty sure they were working Saturday to bring in extra money. May be committed during the week to other jobs. This is just the way today's market is. I try to help compete by making this a good place to work. We have covered patio for lunch breaks and a clean restroom for all to use (our cabana bath). We also provide lunch on Friday's and Saturdays. This is not typical at all for most builders but it's an easy calculation for me. $100/day extra to get 2 crews for a day. Based on direct hire of the crews, total cost for tile part of this job was marked up almost 2x by builders that quoted my work and probably worth it if they actually do the job... sadly most of them that I've seen don't.

Even though I've got some really good quality craft prepping and setting tile I find quality control is very important. Probably because the gutter drain concept is so different for this pool. The zero edge I'm doing isn't like any other design I've seen so I go out with the zip level to check pool inside edge and slope of outside edge frequently. They clearly get the inside edge has to be as close as possible to the same all around the pool. But they have struggled with the concept the outside edge has to slope down toward the gutter. If it's not done right this pool will never be able to put enough water over the long infinity wall for "infinity mode". When I close the gutter valves water will just pour all over the deck... Robin would not like that! After a few checks and interventions both crews finally got this.

Safety is an on-going concern for me. Yesterday, I had to stop work for a moment. A young laborer was doing some minor concrete grinding with no eye protection. When I explained I care about his eyes he seemed shocked as did his boss. This is so typical for residential construction. What's acceptable would be an immediate termination on an industrial job. I know they have insurance and liability coverage but I just don't want anybody hurt on my job. This is one of an owner builder's primary responsibilities in my mind.

Tile was the primary focus yesterday but I also had my excavation sub on site to do some fill and compact work plus preliminary grading. Also removed the final 3 loads of dirt. So it's still a mess out back but looking like it could be a real backyard with a pool again someday. @kimkats has done a great job in her many posts to warn prospective OP's about the mess and boy is she right! View out the back looked like I was building a house again.

In the "when it rains, it pours" pours category. With all this work going on I didn't really have time for distractions. But that's exactly what I got when all the water in the house started smelling like a sewer. Turns out my sulfur removal aerated catylitic carbon filter completely stopped working and I had over 2 ppm sulfide... my wife can reliably detect 85 ppb. That will have to be addressed today when I won't have any PB work going on. I have to say Robin has been very patient with me on this... I think she's actually starting to feel sorry for me that this job has me working pretty hard.

Photo's from yesterday below.

Chris

Look what Robin found on sale... She's starting to behave like a pool owner/shopper even though I'm weeks out still!