Wiring - changing from Intermatic T100 to Suraielec Smart WIFI Timer

[TimTracy]

Wiring isto control Jandy Valve Actuator Model JVA2444 for pool vacum for start and stop times.
Changing out broken Intermatic T100? to a Suraielec Smart WIFI Timer.
This is 240V, following the recommendation from the Suraielec manual for 240V.
The JVA2444 Valve has a manual on-off-neutral switch.
When the Suraielec timer has the blue load light lighted the manual switch can be used to switch on(valve open) and switch off(closed) to manually use pool vacum on or off.
I would like the value to on(open) at 8:00 am every morning and off(close) at 10:00 am.
Presently I have to have Load off and manual switch on(open), the timer calendar will fire off at 8:00 am and the load light will turn blue and the valve will open. Then at 10:00 am the timer will turn the blue load button off and the value will not close.
I tried the manual switch in the neutral position and the load button turned on at 8:00 am and the valve did not open and then at 10:00 am the load button turned off and the value did not close because it was already closed.
Hoping to have the Suraielec Timer value on(open) at 8:00 am and off(close) at 10:00 am from the schedule clock and not to manually use the on-off switch for the JVA240V. Uploading images of the previous wiring and how i have the Suraielec Timer wired.
Thanks for any input on this issue.
Tim

 

[1poolman1]

Wiring isto control Jandy Valve Actuator Model JVA2444 for pool vacum for start and stop times.
Changing out broken Intermatic T100? to a Suraielec Smart WIFI Timer.
This is 240V, following the recommendation from the Suraielec manual for 240V.
The JVA2444 Valve has a manual on-off-neutral switch.
When the Suraielec timer has the blue load light lighted the manual switch can be used to switch on(valve open) and switch off(closed) to manually use pool vacum on or off.
I would like the value to on(open) at 8:00 am every morning and off(close) at 10:00 am.
Presently I have to have Load off and manual switch on(open), the timer calendar will fire off at 8:00 am and the load light will turn blue and the valve will open. Then at 10:00 am the timer will turn the blue load button off and the value will not close.
I tried the manual switch in the neutral position and the load button turned on at 8:00 am and the valve did not open and then at 10:00 am the load button turned off and the value did not close because it was already closed.
Hoping to have the Suraielec Timer value on(open) at 8:00 am and off(close) at 10:00 am from the schedule clock and not to manually use the on-off switch for the JVA240V. Uploading images of the previous wiring and how i have the Suraielec Timer wired.
Thanks for any input on this issue.
Tim

Hopefully you are not sending 240V to a 24V actuator.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tim,

I would like to help, but have a couple of issues/questions..

I looked up a JVA2444 and 2440 and they appear to be 24 VAC units...

I looked up the T100 and it appears to be a 120 volt clock..

I looked at your old wiring and I can't tell where the wires go as they just disappear into a cluster of masking tape..

If you can tell us more about what wires do what, or which conduits go where it would help us help you.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TimTracy]

Wiring isto control Jandy Valve Actuator Model JVA2444 for pool vacum for start and stop times.
Changing out broken Intermatic T100? to a Suraielec Smart WIFI Timer.
This is 240V, following the recommendation from the Suraielec manual for 240V.
The JVA2444 Valve has a manual on-off-neutral switch.
When the Suraielec timer has the blue load light lighted the manual switch can be used to switch on(valve open) and switch off(closed) to manually use pool vacum on or off.
I would like the value to on(open) at 8:00 am every morning and off(close) at 10:00 am.
Presently I have to have Load off and manual switch on(open), the timer calendar will fire off at 8:00 am and the load light will turn blue and the valve will open. Then at 10:00 am the timer will turn the blue load button off and the value will not close.
I tried the manual switch in the neutral position and the load button turned on at 8:00 am and the valve did not open and then at 10:00 am the load button turned off and the value did not close because it was already closed.
Hoping to have the Suraielec Timer value on(open) at 8:00 am and off(close) at 10:00 am from the schedule clock and not to manually use the on-off switch for the JVA240V. Uploading images of the previous wiring and how i have the Suraielec Timer wired.
Thanks for any input on this issue.
Tim

 

[TimTracy]

I uploaded 3 more pictures that may help.
I could be wrong on the model of the old timer, I matched it to stock images I found.
The timer was originally installed in 1994 when the pool was built, Paper stating info on timer is completely gone and not a model number anywhere else. Volt meter did show 240V to red wires from fuse box.
The back conduit is from fuse box(2 Red thick gage, 1 green)
The conduit from the bottom go to JVA2440(1 red smaller gage, 1 Black, 1 White)

From the old timer I believe the following is correct:
A - no wire
1 - Line - White wire to clock
Red wire from fuse box
Black wire to JVA2440.
2 - Load - Red wire to JVA2440
3 - Line - Red wire from fuse box.
White wire to clock
4 – Load – no wire.

Ground – Green Wire from fuse box
White wire to JVA2440.

I also loaded a stock photo from the JVA2440 showing the manual switch with
ON 1
OFF
ON 2
I incorrectly stated earlier that it was on, neutral, off.

With the blue Load button on for the Suraielec timer I can use the manual switch to ON 1 to open the value and then to ON 2 to close the value.
With the old T100 timer I would use the ON OFF switch in the Box to open and close to vacuum the pool.
The T100 clock stop turning years ago andI haven’t used the clips to turn on and off.

Hoping to get the Suraielec timer to open at 8:00 am and close at 10:00 am every morning.
For the time being I can use the switch on the JVA2440 to open and close to vacuum the pool.

Thanks for any help.

Tim

 

[1poolman1]

Tim,

I would like to help, but have a couple of issues/questions..

I looked up a JVA2444 and 2440 and they appear to be 24 VAC units...

I looked up the T100 and it appears to be a 120 volt clock..

I looked at your old wiring and I can't tell where the wires go as they just disappear into a cluster of masking tape..

If you can tell us more about what wires do what, or which conduits go where it would help us help you.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Intermatic mechanisms (most common), the T100 is the series.
T101M - 120V motor. Single pole.
T103M - 120V motor. Double pole (seldom seen). Can switch 2 independent (though simultaneous) loads of up to 40A.
T104M - 240V motor. Double pole.
T106M - 240V motor. Single pole to switch between high and low. Used in conjunction with a T104 to control a 2-speed pump (seldom seen).
Remove the letter M designation and the mechanism is in an indoor box.
Add an R instead, outdoor gray metal box.
Replace the R with a P3 (now just P) and it is in an outdoor beige plastic box.
At one time the R3 was an outdoor metal box in beige for the pool industry.
With the proliferation of automation and electronic time clocks, there are many in the business today that have never seen the confusing array of Intermatic timers just for this industry.

To add to the confusion, in the OP's picture, that is a T104R with a white dial in a rust-colored box. They were made for Anthony Pools, which was the largest builder in the country at one time. Sta-Rite made pumps labeled "Anthony" for them in the same rust color. Never knew who made the Apollo DE filter that was in a stainless tank painted in rust color. Then all the plumbing was painted "Anthony Rust."

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tim,

The actuator that you show in the pic is normally controlled with 24 Volts AC.. Not 120 or 240 Volts AC.

Do you have the step-down transformer that you see in the pic below???

I would think if you applied 240 VAC to the actuator motors, you would see a lot of smoke.


Here is a typical wiring diagram.

img080-1.jpg

• Jimrahbe
• Nov 19, 2020

I think we are missing something... Where does the small cable from the actuator go???

Also, to make the actuator work there has to be some type of SPDT relay or switch that tells the actuator to drive one way or the other.. Your timer is not going to do that as it is DPST..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TimTracy]

That must be the transformer located in the gray box under the old timer.
From your above comments, I'm thinking the old timer is the T103M when I compare the old timer to online images.
I would prefer to go to a digital timer that would turn valve on and off on a schedule. I have not located an outdoor digital timer and probably could not get it wired-working properly.
Best bet at this point I think is to replace with a T103M(picture attached).
Have not located a Digital outdoor timer I could try, or maybe it's time to get a pool company to replace it.

Thanks a lot for your help on this issue.
TIm

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tim,

I am not sure what buying another timer mechanical is going to do..

You need to do two things.

I. Provide 240 VAC to your transformer.. and to just the power pins on your new digital timer. This would stay on all the time..

2. Wire the low voltage 24 VAC to a relay in your new digital timer.. This would allow you to control the position of the 240 VAC actuator, using WiFi..

Let me see if I can draw a diagram for you to follow.

Well, that will not work.. It appears to me your timer only has Normally Open contacts.. You need a timer that has both normally open and normally closed contacts... They make them..

Please let me know the specific timer that you have, so I can double check..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TimTracy]

Thanks again for all your help.
Ready to get one that works. Seems like the best replacement may be the T104, not knowing for sure the original Intermatic timer.
The local Home Depot has the T104RD89 that appears to match the same connections of my original timer. The model number according to Home Depot site is T104RD89
Can I match up the wiring to my photos of the original Intermatic timer to this new T104RD89?

link to T104RD89

Intermatic T100 Series 40 Amp 24-Hour Outdoor Mechanical Timer with Double Pole Single Throw switching 240 VAC, Gray T104RD89 - The Home Depot

The Intermatic 40-amp 208-277 volt 24 Hour DPST Mechanical Time Switch with Outdoor Enclosure is programmable and rust resistant. This comes with 3 in. d x 5 in. w x 7.75 in. h. It is suitable for industrial,

www.homedepot.com