Want to upgrade to salt, plumbing sanity check and recommendations

[zolakk]

Hi all,
I am looking to upgrade to a salt system but if I understand correctly I need to do a bit of re-plumbing to get the minimum 3' between the heater and cell. I'm thinking if I can somehow re-use that first elbow out of the heater, I can spin it upwards, go up about 1.5-2 feet, across the current intake pipe and back down to tie back into the inlet at the valve back to the pool/spa, with the cell on the downward pipe in the front. I guess plan B if I can't re-use the elbow I'll need to source a new union and start that part from new.

I've been looking CircuPool Universal25 Salt Chlorine Generator at discount salt pool with their $10 upgrade to the 40k version or the Pureline Pool Salt System 40,000 Gallons, Chlorine Generator, Control Panel & Salt Cell - Model PL7700 at inyo for about the same. Both seem to get decent praise from what I can tell, the discount salt seems to have a 4 year warranty vs the 1 at inyo with both advertising about the same output so I'm leaning away from inyo unless there's something I'm not seeing. I do have an automation system (no-name relay based) but I'm ok with just a simple on/off for control, I don't see needing to adjust output often enough to go with the hayward one given the extra $1k for that.

Off topic, I would like to replace the temperature sensor but my automation system uses a DS18B20 3 wire sensor instead of the thermistor that everyone normally uses for that shape of sensor, if someone knows of a similar mounting or something where I can slip in my own sensor, I'd be grateful for any leads. This seems like a somewhat custom part and the manufacturer is unfortunately out of business so I can't source a new one that way.

 

[Newdude]

I need to do a bit of re-plumbing to get the minimum 3' between the heater and cell

To my best knowledge, the rec is primarily for the flow switch with the possibility of turbulence messing with it. You can go up and over as planned and place the flow switch after the cell, because the cell counts as 'straight pipe' it might not be 3 ft, but it'll be most of it at least.

You have moderately simple plumbing and should have tons of flow either way. My 1st cell was 90'd right to my heat pump and by the time I learned it wasn't advised, it had never complained in 6 years, so I wasn't going to mess with it.

Hang tight for temp sensor thoughts and/or more conversion thoughts.

 

[sande005]

That 36" caution seems to only be with one brand. Circupool says nothing about distance from the heater, although they do want a 6-12" straight run for the flow switch. Circupool sells a vertical installation kit, which you can view to see how well it may fit your situation (and no need to buy it, the components are just standard plumbing parts plus what you already get with their SWCG).

It seems the fear of getting strong Cl into the heater is driving some of this. I may be foolish, but with my vertical install, any reverse flow would shut off the SWCG via it's flow switch, and given the size of my loop, well before any concentrated Cl makes it back to the heater. A check valve just after the heater might be a belt-and-suspenders addition. And since the SWCG should never run without flow due to explosion hazard, there is that level of prevention also.

Read the manual for whatever SWCG you plan to buy, first. That may be the only place you can find out what increments the generator can be programmed for. My RJ is in 5% increments. Others may be up to coarse steps of 20%, meaning it is harder to correct for over/under generation without also adjusting pump run times.

 

[pjt]

While you're doing plumbing upgrades, this is a great opportunity to install a heater bypass.

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[zolakk]

Good thoughts all around, thanks! It looks like both models I've been looking at function exactly the same with a dial for percentage of fine steps until 50, actually from pictures it looks like they might have the same control panel even - but I supposed it's a fairly simple mechanism all considered so I imagine there's not a whole lot of difference there. Both have the same warranty terms, but the CircuPool has a 4 year while the PureLine has 1 (2 with a +1 year from my CC if I go that way). Replacement cells are about $100 more on the CircuPool vs the PureLine so that's probably the more important metric I think. Also both state they only need 12" after the heater before the cell so my plan would cover that and then some.

I did notice the PureLine install says I need a zinc anode that I didn't consider but it makes sense for the reason so I think I should budget for that as well?

Definitely going to consider the heater bypass too, that's a great idea since I'll have everything on that side apart anyway - just have to work that all into the plan, heh. Thankfully I'm not in a rush so I have time to plan it all out properly.

As far as the temperature sensor thing, I had a thought of getting an extra of the fittings that the flow sensors use and using a screw in thermowell which could work. If I move on to a thermistor based system later when/if what I have dies I imagine I can just get a generic one of the same rating and put it in the thermowell instead then.

 

[ajw22]

I did notice the PureLine install says I need a zinc anode that I didn't consider but it makes sense for the reason so I think I should budget for that as well?

Zinc anode is a placebo that rarely has any benefit in a pool.

 

[sande005]

Do a search on anodes here. The consensus is that they are rather useless. But there are a several threads that go deep into the "why"......

 

[TinFoilHat]

A $100 difference in a cell replacement is nothing when you calculate out how much the cell will save you in tabs or liquid. If you're comparing those two then go to Circupool as it's probably most liked in the not Pentair/Hayward/Jandy lines.

 

[Newdude]

+1 to the cost difference.

There are some rounding errors upscaling daily FC production to 10k hours, but a 40k cell should make about 670 jugs worth of 10% chlorine. They'd cost 4127.50 out the door st Walmart. If you like one model over the other model for $100, you're still going to make a killing on it.

 

[zolakk]

Cool then I'm not gonna worry about that anode then, it'll save some cash anyway. I was thinking then I can do this:
Put in a Jandy 3 way valve for bypass where the dead temp sensor is, relocate that somewhere else (better before or after the heater or does it matter?), outlet facing up and an elbow with pipe towards the outlet line
Put a check valve for the bypass between the output and the current elbow, turn the existing elbow up instead of down, then tee to accept the line from the bypass. Might not have enough room the clear the filter putting the tee before the elbow.
Go up over and down through the cell, then flow switch and back to the existing valve into the pool

The only potential problem I run into is that the check valve might move that elbow maybe an inch or so out so it's not in line with the existing pipe into the valve anymore. Not sure if I'll need to get creative to make that up or not. I might also be over thinking that too to be honest, heh.

Since I'm going to be adding the extra valves, I might go with the Pureline at Inyo then since I can get everything in one shot (discount salt pools doesn't seem to carry valves that I can find) and I already got my pump through them so it'll be a bit easier to have everything in one place too. You're right, the price isn't really that big of a deal long term either way and I'm sure the warranty difference probably doesn't mean much in real life either after 2 years.

For a laugh, I asked chatgpt to help diagram the changes to the plumbing and it gave me this. I might have to hang this somewhere near the equipment pad lol

Edit: forgot the pipe across for the bypass in the plan

 

[TinFoilHat]

Ha ha. probably from 1951.

 

[zolakk]

After thinking about everything, I went ahead and actually went with the CircuPool instead, while I wait for that to arrive I got a check valve and jandy valve and quickly realized that adding the heater bypass may be a lot more complicated than I thought, if possible at all. Should have measured better first, heh.

With the check valve installed straight out, I don't think I have enough room with that and an elbow and going up to get the ring for my filter off. My only option then is put an elbow up first, then the check valve, then a tee, two elbows then back down in front of the jandy valve and back out to the pool. Like this, if you'll excuse my quick and dirty diagram from the side view (green is check valve, orange is jandy, grey salt cell, purple flow switch, blue existing valve back to pool/spa) - not to scale, of course. It feels like that will be a very tight squeeze to get all that in that way. I'd probably have to put the valve handle facing away towards the check valve to get it all to fit.



It looks like I might just barely have 12" -14" between the heater and the salt cell with the flow just past the cell - depending on how big they are, i'll measure when it comes in tomorrow. If that's the case, should I just abandon the idea of the heater bypass and going up and over?

 

[zolakk]

Just to update: I went ahead with attempting the plumbing this weekend and it was a bit of work but I managed to get it all plumbed in as originally planned and it seems to be running fine now with no leaks! Still have to wire everything up but that's the easy part. Thanks all!

 

[TinFoilHat]

Nice job there. That reminds me that it's time to repaint my pipes too. Well, 20 years late anyway.

 

[Newdude]

: I went ahead with attempting the plumbing this weekend

The flow switch needs upflow, or horizontal flow, or gravity will close it when it fails.

Its easier to add another one and let that one be a placebo. Add one to the horizontal pipe above the SWG.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Good catch! I didn't see that.

 

[Newdude]

I'm mad i missed the plans above that clearly showed it. Its not alot of effort or funds to fix it, but some days I'm scraping by with what I have for either.

 

[zolakk]

That sucks, with I thought of that too . I do have a temp sensor earlier in the plumbing already, I have a feeling I can't just swap them though since I imagine it would read a lot higher than normal when the heater is running since it's downstream from the heater.

 

[Newdude]

I do have a temp sensor earlier in the plumbing already, I have a feeling I can't just swap them though since I imagine it would read a lot higher than normal when the heater is running since it's downstream from the heater

Correct

 

[zolakk]

Bummer, ok I guess then I'm ordering a new tee to move the flow switch to the top