Very Short Frog SmartChlor lifetime when Minerals expired?

[Anduril]

We recently got a spa. After some bad advise from the pool company that sold us the spa, I picked up a Taylor K-2006 kit and have been testing it myself and making adjustments accordingly. All has been going fine until recently. The 255 gallon spa uses a Frog cartridge system with SmartChlor and Mineral cartridges. The SmartChlor cartridges are supposed to last 3-4 weeks and they had been doing so, but in the in the last month I had to replace one after 15 days and then the next one in 12 days. While up at the pool store buying additional SmartChlor cartridges, the pool store suggested that the shorted lifetime might be because the Mineral cartidge might be expired. I checked an it had just reached the end of its 4 month lifetime. I had just put the new SmartChlor cartridge last Saturday, but in the the replacement Mineral cartridge on Tuesday, and today (Wednesday), my free chlorine is well north of 15 and my SmartChlor cartridge that I just put in Saturday is pretty much empty.

It seems like the Mineral cartridge became depleted and without the additional sanitation of the minerals, the SmartChlor cartridge had to put out a lot more chlorine, going through an entire cartridge in under a week. And that once I added fresh minerals it really enhanced the sanitizing affect of all of the chlorine in the water driving up my free chlorine numbers to high numbers. I could believe we'd go through the minerals faster than the rated 4 months as my wife uses the spa daily. Does all of that make sense, or am I missing something else?

The only other oddity is that the pH which tends to run slightly high and I have to bring it down, has been low in the last week and I've been working to bring it up.

Thanks for any insights.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum.

I suggest you consider ditching the magic potions and follow How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Allow me to elaborate on a few points.

First, your understanding of how these cartridges work is simply not correct and perhaps this is what you were told by the "knowledgable" pool/spa store people. If so, they demonstrate the key point that TFP makes all the time - they are very good sales people but very lousy chemists. While they claim that the mineral cartridge adds "minerals" to the water (a small amount of silver but mostly zinc or magnesium) to boost the sanitizing properties of the chlorine source thus allowing it to "work" less, that explanation lacks any grounding in scientific reality. There is simply no feedback mechanism, chemical or otherwise, whereby the chlorine sanitizer cartridge would have any "knowledge" of what the mineral cartridge is putting out or vice versa. These are simply cartridges full of chemicals that dissolve at a predetermined rate based on how warm the water is and how much water flows through these cartridges. They simply wear out at whatever given rate, there is no feedback mechanism. So it doesn't really matter if one is empty or not. My guess is something has changed in your tub system (perhaps flow rates or temperature or some other setting) or that the cartridges were damaged in some way whereby excess chemical dissolved out of them.

Secondly, the Frog @Ease system is really not how you want to keep your tub clean. It's nothing more than a very expensive chemical cartridge system that adds unnecessary chemicals to the water in way that makes the Frog manufacturer lots of money. For example, the chemical in the chlorine sanitizer cartridge is nothing more than the same chemical found in toilet bowl sanitizing pucks that one puts in their toilet tank to keep the bowl sanitized. While it does deliver some free chlorine, it also builds up a lot of reserve chlorine (chlorine bound to an organic compound) because of the chemical used. It doesn't add chlorine stabilizer to your water (cyanuric acid, or CYA) but the organic chemical used to bind the chlorine into a solid form builds up and it shows up when you test for combined chlorine. It essentially causes false high CC value which would make one think that their hot tub has a lot of bather waste in it. The Frog @Ease instructions makes it sound like the cartridge is set to deliver free chlorine at a level of 0.5ppm and that it's "designed" to maintain that level which is "perfect" when you pair it with "minerals" (notice all the scare quotes "" I'm using). This is nothing more than marketing B/S ... the solid chlorine compound used in the cartridge simply dissolves at a rate and with an chemical equilibrium value such that there will only be about 0.5ppm FC in the water. There's no "smartness" there, it's simply how mother nature and chemistry works. You could hang a toilet bowl chlorinating table in the hot tub and get nearly the same results. So, in the end, what you paying an excessive amount of money for is nothing but a plastic cartridge holding toilet bowl sanitizer.

As for "minerals" that also complete nonsense. If a tub is properly sanitized with chlorine, there is absolutely no need for any metal ions (silver) in the water whatsoever. So, in the end, all that mineral cartridge is doing is adding unnecessary metal ions to the water that do very little sanitizing but cost you a whole lot of money.

It's your hot tub and you can run it however you see fit, but we have seen many posts about this "latest hot tub technology" from Frog and most people get tired of the lousy results it produces and the excessive drain on their wallets. You can sanitize and enjoy your hot tub for a lot cheaper and with a lot less hassle. @mknauss posted the TFP Sticky on using chlorine in a hot tub. Many TFP'ers follow that advice and save lots of money not dealing with expensive spa stores.

 

[Newdude]

Hey and anduril and Welcome !!!! I'm not sure this is your exact system, but have a read anyway as all mineral systems are the same. All magic, no rabbit.

Aqua Smarte Mineral System - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Anduril]

You all have certainly given me a lot to think about. Thanks. I appreciate the input.

 

[phonedave]

You all have certainly given me a lot to think about. Thanks. I appreciate the input.

I will give an other vote for ditching the Frog. I have been using TFP methods to maintain my pool for about a decade now. I got my hot tub maybe 6 months ago, and it came with 3 months of Frog system.

I figured why not use the "free" frog system until it runs out and the make a decision. I had made my decision about 2 months in. The frog did nothing to "adjust to bather loads" or anything like that (not that I expected it to). It kept a low level of Free Chlorine, and gave me no confidence since it made testing for CC's useless.

I use bleach and acid in my tub on a regular basis and very rarely a defoamer (when I know the water is clean and it is foaming only because somebody washed their bathing suit.)

I use baking soda if necessary when I do a water change.

That's about it. No need for crazy systems that really do nothing useful.

 

[rayknoll]

Hey, another newbie here.

I received my Bullfrog spa about 4 months ago, and it came with the @ease cartridges. My tub is 545 gallons, and the chlorine cartridges are lasting about two weeks. That makes it pretty expensive, but the tub is spotless and has no odor whatsoever. However, if the pH rises, say to 7.7-7.8, which reduces chlorine effectiveness (I know that because of this forum) I start seeing scum build up, which is scary. Fortunately, with the information I’ve garnered from this forum, I’m now able to control the pH easily (lowered alkalinity, added boric acid, and turned down those darn venturi jets during the filtering cycles).

I’m on the fence as to whether I’ll stay with the cartridges or switch to bleach, as the cartridges are slightly more convenient and it seems they’ll better facilitate spa management when I’m away from home. Being retired, the latter has plenty of appeal. Or, maybe I’ll switch to bleach and install a cartridge before I leave(?).

Would it be wise to use the smartchlor cartridges WITHOUT the mineral cartridge? I’m just wondering if the chlorine might be too harsh without the minerals. Dropping the minerals would save about $120 per year. That’s not enough to stop me from using them, but I don’t like wasting money either.

 

[Newdude]

Drop the minerals. The pool industry is obsessed with algae control and all but ignores sanitation. You copper and silver 'minerals' do in fact inhibit algae, but you must sanitize at 100% either way.

If you properly sanitize then the algae can never grow in the first place. It seems so silly but it's the truth. They have mystery potion after potion and this system and that system when all it would take is some dirt cheap bleach. I am 100% ok with you using whatever form of Chlorine you like. Tabs and powders add CYA or calcium so factor that in to your choice.

 

[phonedave]

Hey, another newbie here.

I received my Bullfrog spa about 4 months ago, and it came with the @ease cartridges. My tub is 545 gallons, and the chlorine cartridges are lasting about two weeks. That makes it pretty expensive, but the tub is spotless and has no odor whatsoever. However, if the pH rises, say to 7.7-7.8, which reduces chlorine effectiveness (I know that because of this forum) I start seeing scum build up, which is scary. Fortunately, with the information I’ve garnered from this forum, I’m now able to control the pH easily (lowered alkalinity, added boric acid, and turned down those darn venturi jets during the filtering cycles).

I’m on the fence as to whether I’ll stay with the cartridges or switch to bleach, as the cartridges are slightly more convenient and it seems they’ll better facilitate spa management when I’m away from home. Being retired, the latter has plenty of appeal. Or, maybe I’ll switch to bleach and install a cartridge before I leave(?).

Would it be wise to use the smartchlor cartridges WITHOUT the mineral cartridge? I’m just wondering if the chlorine might be too harsh without the minerals. Dropping the minerals would save about $120 per year. That’s not enough to stop me from using them, but I don’t like wasting money either.

How long are these away from home timeframes - You could go 4 days or so just by adding enough bleach before you leave. If you SLAM your tub before you leave, and then leave it covered and nobody uses it, it should be fine. If you have an ozone generator, it will burn off your FC when it runs during the filter cycle. But even if that is the case, you should still be OK for 4 day so. For longer, you can use tabs in a floater as long as your CYA levels can take the hit. I used to do this in my pool as well. I keep my CYA at the low end of a the recommended range. Then, if I am going to be away for a long time, I use tabs in a floater. My CYA can take the hit, and it keeps CL where it needs to be. Then when I drain and refill, the CYA goes back down.