Vero Beach, FL Pool Build

[cclocke]

Hi Everyone!

We are about to begin our journey on a new pool. Quick background, I am married with three kids, ages 9, 6, and 2. We live in Vero Beach, FL, a couple houses from the ocean. We were very close to building a pool five years ago when we moved, but unfortunately didn't have the funds to do so.

My wife and I always say that we will regret not putting a pool in while the kids are young. Now that we have some equity, (and my 2 year old is almost swim safe), we have some flexibility to pay for the pool, and unfortunately the 50% inflation increase since we last looked.

Some features we are looking for include hot tub large enough to fit six people, a length long enough to give my son, a killer swimmer, the availability to swim somewhat of a lap, a salt water system, and an automated system, etc.

We have contacted a few companies and received our first proposal today...

Dimensions: 462 sq ft. Pool 14’ x 33’
Gunite shell with engineering steel reinforcing throughout.
Pool walls 5-6” Gunite.
Depth 3’ to 5’6”
Install hydrostatic line.
*Gunite Concrete shell with extended steps
Water line tile (Tile material based on standard 6” x 6”).
1 Anti-Vortex channel main drains (V.G.B. compliant).
Schedule 40 PVC piping throughout.
Plumbing return lines 2” (per engineering).
One suction vacuum line. One skimmer.
Backfill shell, compact. Rough grade.
Standard pool plaster finish (Florida Stucco)
Jandy 1 Multi color LED underwater pool lights. 3 yr warranty.
Jandy 200 sq ft Cart Filtration system. 3 yr warranty.
Jandy 2.85HP Variable Speed Filtration Pump. 3 yr warranty.
Start up Kit.
Pool fill filtration system. Based on county water 1 Tank with chemicals (start up).

*Spa 7’5’ X 5’. Raised 12”. Tile all four outsides. 6 therapy jets, 2 returns, 1 LED light, and 2 returns.
Sun Shelf 5’ x 5’ Sun shelf with umbrella sleeve and 1 bubbler.
Proposed Decking – 922 sqft of Standard Pavers. Includes step up to pool elevation. (travertine is additional $)
Prosed Coping – 94 LF of Standard Bullnose Paver Coping.
Heat pump 125,000 BTU. Includes solar pill.
Jandy Saltwater True Clear system.
Jandy Full Automation with phone control.
Pool side alarm.
Chase line for water and electric to future cabana

I'm hoping you all can help with suggestions on any additional items/substitutions that I should be asking about, both for the above proposal and upcoming ones. The one item I feel confident that needs changing is to add some additional pool lighting.

I'm looking forward to hearing your suggestions and sharing my pool build!

Thank you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pool fill filtration system. Based on county water 1 Tank with chemicals (start up).

C,

Do you have any idea what that is??? Just looks odd to me. Maybe a water softener system???

I always recommend two skimmer, and 4 returns no matter what size pool.

Make sure all the valves are Jandy style valves... NO ball valves.

I think 3 feet is too shallow.

I like cartridge filters, but I'd get a much bigger one. We call Florida... "The land of the dinky filters"..
The bigger the filter, the less often you will need to clean it.

Going saltwater is the perfect choice. I am not a Jandy guy so don't know if the true clear is a good one or not. Make sure the cell is rated for at least 2 x the volume of your pool. A 20K pool needs a 40K cell.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP. Glad that you joined and asked for feedback. Keep this thread going throughout your construction so everything is in one place. You can change the title of your thread as things progress.
My feedback as follows

Depth 3’ to 5’6”

Not sure where you will measure the 3ft - if that is at the very bottom of the last step OK, but go quickly to 3.5 or 4 ft. 3ft is really shallow and your kids will grow fast. I have 5.5 ft max depth is ok but if you think your 9 yo will have friends over and do cannonballs then consider 6ft or 6.5ft depth.

One suction vacuum line. One skimmer.

If you have a screen Lanai then 1 skimmer may be fine but we usually recommend 2 skimmers as that is your main suction for skimming. Also, the skimmer (s) should have an independent plumbing line back to the equipment pad.

Jandy 200 sq ft Cart Filtration system. 3 yr warranty.
Jandy 2.85HP Variable Speed Filtration Pump. 3 yr warranty.

Upgrade to a minimum 300 sq ft cartridge filter. It is a nominal cost increase but will reduce your maintenance to clean your filter. If you read on the forum, many pool builders (PB) install small filters in FL. Again, if you have a screen enclosure, you may get by but best to go bigger if you can.
Good VS pump.

Heat pump 125,000 BTU. Includes solar pill.
Jandy Saltwater True Clear system.
Jandy Full Automation with phone control.

If you want to heat your spa quicker, go with a larger heater, 250kBTU or larger. Do you have natural gas? That could be an option.

Drop the True Clear system and have the PB supply the AquaPure 1400 Saltwater Chlorine Generator (SWCG). It is a much better unit and will give you more flexibility regarding pump run time and SWCG output setting.
Ask which Automation system. Get a model and part number. It should be the newest AquaLink RS 6 or 8 system.

Good Luck, Keep us informed of any other bids.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy!! Another new pool build We love new pool builds.

First thought on reading is go longer if possible, to allow for a good lap. 3' is too shallow to swim in- knuckles will be scraped on the bottom. Go a minimum 3.5', but 4' is better. If you have stairs that where the 2 year old will hang until swimming.

I dislike Jandy only because they lock you in to them doing all the work/repairs....you can't even buy the stuff. I'd say go with Pentair as you can get great VS pumps, automation, Salt systems.... and buying it all together gets a good package price and warranty. You can also work on it yourself.

Don't let the builder give you a "Florida Filter".... the larger the filter the less you'll have to clean it. Many go up to 420 or 520 and only clean the filter once a year.

Ditch the suction vac line and go robot instead. Saves money and works far better.

Maddie

 

[Newdude]

My wife and I always say that we will regret not putting a pool in while the kids are young

We financed the first pool when the Mrs won that discussion with the above sentiment. I don't remember but it was under $5000 in interest and probably only $2500 (Rates were favorable at the time).

Friends down the road saved and put their pool in about the time ours was paid off 7 years later. My kids had a pool in elementary school, theirs in high school. That interest was worth every last penny, probably several times over for the years of memories made.

The funny thing was that the timing was picked as the little one entered Kindergarden and we stopped paying daycare. The $60k pool project cost $100 less per month than daycare for 1 kid.

 

[kimkats]

Depth 3’ to 5’6”

This has been covered and I agree on going to 4' to 6'. Make sure it is WATER depth!! As in from the floor of the pool to the middle of the skimmer opening.

Pool fill filtration system. Based on county water 1 Tank with chemicals (start up).

??? Say what??

Sun Shelf

What is the water depth? Think about where you want the water to hit you as you sit on it either in a chair/lounger or just sitting on your bottom.

Pool side alarm.

More detail please. Not sure what this is.

 

[cclocke]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions, I'm very grateful that I found you all early in my process. Based on the above, here are the items I need to look at:

Consider adding a second skimmer - FYI The pool will not have any coverage, so this seems significant.
Confirm the amount of returns - with four being the ideal amount.
Upgrade the cartridge filter size to a minimum 300 sq ft, potentially larger
Remove the suction vac line and go with robot instead
Upgrade SWCG, and consider switching from Jandy to Pentair
Consider upgrading the spa heater - FYI I do not have natural gas
Figure out what "pool fill filtration system based on county water" means. I currently have no idea.

Also, I agree regarding the pool depth. The 3 ft -- 5.5 ft seems pretty shallow. I'll check to see how quickly the pool deepens, but I'm strongly leaning towards a deeper pool. 3.5 - 6 seems like the right size IMO, but I'll look into 4 as well. My wife is only 5'0" so I don't want the depth to be too high for her.

Do you all agree that I should have more than the one LED light, or would one be sufficient?

FYI The original quote I received is in the high 80s, plus an additional 5K for travertine. With some add ons, It looks like I'll be creeping up to around 100K. I'm going to get some more quotes, but based on what I'm hearing the price is pretty consistent with the market. It is what it is .

 

[Newdude]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions, I'm very grateful that I found you all early in my process

I found it very therapeutic. We laughed. We cried. They laughed as I threw stuff. It's a roller coaster and having somewhere to vent kept me from needing bail money at times.

Then the folks following along with a clear head spotted many things that I didn't, because I was so focused on the big fish that needed frying, I missed a bunch of minnows.

 

[cclocke]

FYI attached is the initial rendering of the pool set up.

My backyard already has a natural elevation, which allows for a step up and potentially some other features.

It appears that the main pool as rendered would have the one skimmer and three returns.

If my family is going to have any space at all for laps, the one thing that would need to be changed is the position of the hot tub and/or sun shelf. Honestly, we aren't sure if we even need the sun shelf.

The other change we are considering is adding some flooring to an area around the pool, allowing for some pool chairs and the potential for a fire pit.

One more thing, we would prefer not to build left behind the "existing residence" portion of the house. We would like the option to build an add-on to the house, and/or want to save some yard for the kids to play.

Feel free to provide any planning suggestions. Thanks!

 

[cclocke]

This may be easier than opening the PDF

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

If you plan to extend the left side of the house, you might want to think about all the plumbing that needs to go between the current location of the equipment pad and the pool.

I agree with moving the spa to make a longer lap lane.

I know that sun shelves are 'in', but I find them a waste of pool space.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[HermanTX]

Remove the suction vac line and go with robot instead

I would still keep the vac suction line. It is a small cost to install this line during pool construction.
A life expentency for a robot varies widely if you search this forum and their initial costs can be high depending on the modeL. If you only go with a robot then only will you ever use a robot as there is no alternative. If you put in the vac suction line, then you always have that option to go that route if you decide not keep a robot. Give yourself some options and do some research on robots before you 100% commit to using only it.

Upgrade SWCG, and consider switching from Jandy to Pentair

You will find that some PB only use 1 mfg. For equipment as they are incentivized to reach certain purchase levels for some type of reward from the mfg. So 1 PB may only use Jandy and another only Pentair and there are some that use multiple mfg. So once you decide on a PB that may or may not dictate which equipment mfg. you may have to install. Picking a PB should not rely solely on which equipment they provide. Consider their reviews, talk to others that have used this PB, consider his payment plan, i.e. hold back at least 10% to the final completion of the pool (after filling it with water).
Look in the TFP Wiki (at bottom of the page) for pool builder selection criteria, tips on pool construction, etc.

 

[dfwnoob]

I'm not the expert on the actual construction part, BUT I will echo that if your builder has access to other vendors, I strongly recommend avoiding Jandy altogether. However, as Herman pointed out, Jandy makes a lot of pool builders offers they can't refuse (free advertising, etc) to become an exclusive installer.

Without natural gas service, I'm not sure I'd install an attached spa at all. The only reason why I really like my spa is because it's connected to a 400k BTU pool heater that will heat the spa up in no time flat. Other than that, it admittedly is fairly uncomfortable and if it weren't for the fact we can decide "hey I want a dip in the spa", turn the heater on, and get in ~20 minutes later, I don't think I'd ever use it. If my only option were electric, I think i'd rather have a standalone hot tub.

Do you know which LED lights they want to install? FYI, most of the nicheless LEDs are terrible and will fail over and over and over. Jandy DOES sell LED lamps that are intended to go into a conventional Amerlite-style niche. That's the way I'd go.

Just my own brain droppings there

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

A few questions/comments on the pool plans.
Will the coping be wider around the spa than the pool? The spa is going to be tight for six adults, knee to knee.
The spa drawing has no wall, just a line drawn at the spill way, this will come up during Shotcrete so I suggest addressing this now.
Elevation of the open space yard that meets the coping, will this be raised as a slope?
2 lights on the wall of the skimmer and remove the existing light.
Sun-Shelf will require a return line.

 

[pjt]

Depth 3’ to 5’6”

I'd suggest increasing the depth of your shallow end to 4'.

3' is simply too shallow.

5.5' is an inconvenient depth because it's too deep for people to stand, but too shallow for diving, etc.. I would suggest 5' or commit to a true deep end.

1 Anti-Vortex channel main drains (V.G.B. compliant).

This is optional.

Plumbing return lines 2” (per engineering).

I would suggest upsizing the plumbing to 2.5" on the suction side of the pool. For the spa plumbing, you'll want 3".

One suction vacuum line.

Optional. If you're getting a robot, I wouldn't bother with a vacuum line. You could always connect to a skimmer if you needed to manually vacuum.

One skimmer.

Definitely have two skimmers.

Jandy 1 Multi color LED underwater pool lights.

I would add more lights. Make sure they face away from the house or main seating area.

Jandy 200 sq ft Cart Filtration system

This is way too small. Get a large cartridge filter.

If my family is going to have any space at all for laps, the one thing that would need to be changed is the position of the hot tub and/or sun shelf.

I would relocate the spa and shelf to create a swim lane along the entire length of the long axis of the pool.

 

[cclocke]

These are all really great questions I wouldn't have thought of without this forum.

Will the coping be wider around the spa than the pool? The spa is going to be tight for six adults, knee to knee.
No clue. Should the spa coping be wider to allow for people to sit on?
The spa drawing has no wall, just a line drawn at the spill way, this will come up during Shotcrete so I suggest addressing this now.
Are you asking what the height will be between the spa and the pool? If so, my initial thought is that the hot tub will be raised 12", the same as the difference between the hot tub and the rest of the flooring. Something I will need to confirm.
Elevation of the open space yard that meets the coping, will this be raised as a slope?
Great question that I'll need to figure out. The sloping does sound like a good idea to keep the steps sides less exposed.
2 lights on the wall of the skimmer and remove the existing light.
Yea. It sounds like lights facing the home can be a distraction. Hopefully two on the same wall facing out will be enough.
Sun-Shelf will require a return line.
Good to know, thank you! That would be my 4th return, which is what people have suggested.

A few questions/comments on the pool plans.
Will the coping be wider around the spa than the pool? The spa is going to be tight for six adults, knee to knee.
The spa drawing has no wall, just a line drawn at the spill way, this will come up during Shotcrete so I suggest addressing this now.
Elevation of the open space yard that meets the coping, will this be raised as a slope?
2 lights on the wall of the skimmer and remove the existing light.
Sun-Shelf will require a return line.View attachment 478270

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

It’s been my experience that the pool plans are vitally important to the job going in the right direction.
The drawing you provided in my opinion are not completely accurate. The builder may know what’s to be expected by looking at the plans but the following trades if only seeing the plans may not understand exactly what’s expected.
The spa wall that meets the pool is only a single line on the drawing and there should be another line depicting the outside of the wall. This may be a minor overlook but that’s 12” of Shotcrete to be displacing an area in the pool or the spa.
Spa coping width can be the same or wider than the pool’s width. Again the plans show them wider and only on 3 walls not 4. I’m most common with spa height at +18” for the convenience of sitting on.
I hope I’m providing more details in my concerns to help with your questions.

 

[cclocke]

It’s been my experience that the pool plans are vitally important to the job going in the right direction.
The drawing you provided in my opinion are not completely accurate. The builder may know what’s to be expected by looking at the plans but the following trades if only seeing the plans may not understand exactly what’s expected.
The spa wall that meets the pool is only a single line on the drawing and their should be another line depicting the outside of the wall. This may be minor overlook but that’s 12” of Shotcrete to be displacing an area in the pool or the spa.
Spa coping width can be the same or wider than the pool’s width. Again the plans show them wider and only on 3 wall not 4. I’m most common with spa height at +18” for the convenience of sitting on.
I hope I’m providing more details in my concerns to help with your questions.

Thank you. I see what you are saying regarding the spa. Initially I thought that the area on the right with the waterfall was in fact the coping, but the way the plan is drawn up makes the area connected to the seating area. My hunch is that the area on the right is the coping and that there is no seating on that side, and the lines that break up the coping/seating are incorrect. Obviously something that needs to get straightened out.

I will add the 18" vs 12" height to my list of items!

 

[cclocke]

I was up late last night thinking about plans, and a couple ideas ran through my head:

Move the sun shelf and steps to the bottom right, with all or part of it as a bump out. Shallow and deep ends would be flipped. This would required more flooring around the sun shelf, and with the ground elevation I'm not sure how feasible this is, so that is something I'll need to get a better understanding.

Flip the spa with the waterfall facing the house, with a small bump out (maybe a foot or two?) to add more seating. This would give us a little more space for laps, as well as the benefit of seeing the water feature from the house.

The spa can stay either all the way to the left of the pool, or moved a little to the right, with a potential swim out to the left of it. By moving the spa a little right, it would line up better with the patio.

I have also been going through the forums regarding decking and I'm concerned about the width around the pool. The plan currently has a 3' width, but I'm worried with kids running around they will track dirt/mud into the pool area. I'm curious what width you all suggest.

Here is a really quick sketch I made with the above ideas. Please let me know what your thoughts are. I'm open to any planning suggestions at this point. Thank you!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

If you only go with a robot then only will you ever use a robot as there is no alternative. If you put in the vac suction line, then you always have that option to go that route if you decide not keep a robot.

Using a skimmer plate and manual vac hose is always a backup plan for all pool owners.